Hey guys, looks like it wont be possible to buy nicotine base liquid over 20mg for the "end user" post May 2017. https://cigelectric.co.uk/tpd-vaping-laws-uk-2017-regulations/
Nicotine base was NEVER a part of this regulation and this is simply untrue. While there may be specific products that might fall under the knive, like say for example 24 or 30 mg nicotine bases marketed directly at vapers, 72mg nicotine has usage in many other areas than smoking and again, has never been a part of these regulations.
Check and follow the other thread on ECR for information on this.
Basically I'm questioning weather the 2 ml atomizer limit got implemented in the end, or if it rather applies only to tanks that come pre-filled with liquid.
72mg without a doubt falls under TPD. Only way to purchase is B2B sales.
/u/Richu_75 After re-reading every possible version of the TPD in my language and in English posted on the EU website, UK Gov's website with the included definitions, I concede that 72mg/ml liquid seems to fall under the regulation.
They just broadly classify any "liquid containing nicotine" to be restricted to 20 ml/mg and 10 ml bottles. I checked with my usual suppliers and they seem to agree and have prepared TPD compliant bottles.
Also while I do realise we have increased costs due to bottling, packaging and testing, but to me it seems that companies especially targeted at DIY juice are using this as an opportunity to increase the price of the product.
The increase in the price of the nicotine is 4 of 5 times than it was before, while at the same time, same companies hinting that B2B sales will stay at the same prices. Since this is only one product and needs to be tested once, I don't see how the equation adds up here.
/u/thbb I can confirm that in my country, they have also adapted the updated version of the draft on EU's website which only limits tanks prefilled with liquid.
I only see the contradicting information on UK Gov's website and I've emailed them for clarification. Awaiting for reply.
PS: On a totally unrelated note, does anyone notice that cigarettes now actually don't have the so crucial information about the nicotine and tars strenght on the side of the box, to make space for this ridiculous images?
Where is the EU going with this regulation for real?
You should tell that to the Dutch government, which is my country. We already have ratified and implemented the TPD2 guidelines. So no more selling nicotine base higher that 20 mg/ml, and no more than 10ml a bottle. Also the max 2ml atomizer limit is in place.
Fortunately, importing nicotine base and bigger atomizers is still possible for the time being. But time is running out, and before long all the EU countries will have to implement the TPD2.
Again, I'm questioning what you define as nicotine base.
20 mg/ml "nicotine base" is basically an unflavoured eliquid which falls under the new regulations.
However 72mg/ml nicotine base, which is the maximum legal concentration for sell without a special handling permit in Europe (since nicotine is actually highly toxic) is used in many other applications, one example of this is as pesticide.
High concentrations of nicotine are not only used in our industry.
I define nicotine base as nicotine (natural or synthetic) diluted in a PG or VG liquid, at any percentage.
You are 100% correct that nicotine is not only used for vaping, but there aren't too many consumer related fields for nicotine either. As far as I know nicotine isn't allowed as a pesticide anymore.
A quick look around on the internet learns there are mostly two ways to buy nicotine. As a diluted liquid (intended for vaping) and pure undiluted nicotine (either as a 990/999 liquid or as a solid substance ie powder).
My best guess is that buying nicotine in a highly concentrated form (arbitrary TPD limit >20mg/ml) requires a permit of some sort. And thus is out of reach, or will be very soon, for DIY mixers.
But by any means, please prove me wrong, and show me a way that I will be able to continue buying diluted nicotine.
You and I may both agree on the difference between an e-liquid and a nic base. However, the law - TPD included - does not.
Shops across the EU are already removing higher nic concentrations or will do so soon.
This literally means the end of DIY as we know it. The only way to aquire high nic bases will be via B2B/wholesale.
Time to wake up.
I don't live in the UK but in Austria. The TPD went into effect last May, but there is a one year grace period for stores to sell their existing stock.
If you live in Europe and this is your first time hearing about it, don't despair! You can still order nicotine like normal, which makes this a good time to start thinking about stockpiling nicotine. You can store it in the freezer with some preparation. I have a liter of 100mg/ml!
Unless you like me live in Austria where they decided that it is also not allowed to order any e-cig related gear online. Dicks.
EDIT: I would highly recommend ordering your nicotine from Pink Mule. Their nicotine is simply top notch, and you can also order some good brown glass bottles for storing the nicotine.
So to my understanding for that it will be impossible to buy 78 mg nicotine for DIY?
yep, banned to sell to "end user" (i.e customers for personal use) above 20mg and 10ml bottles
In theory then, if you have a registered ltd company or are registered as a sole trader - i'd assume you can just continue to purchase in bulk through that? If B2B sales continue as normal, then it's not going to be difficult to still get hold of larger volumes. Most people know someone registered as a company/trader.
Are you sure you/cigelectric has interpreted this correctly? When reading the tpd stuff on the gov website I thought it meant you cant sell anything labeled as eliquid over 20mg in the 10ml bottles? Nicotine concentrate isnt sold as such and comes with different packaging guidlines(like needing the skull on the bottle and various warnings). Is there any info that makes it clear nicotine concentrate is included in these regulations?
All this bullshit pretty much guarantees I'll be back on death sticks in 18 months time. :(
buy a few litres 72mg nic now, problem solved for a while ;)
Sounds like a good idea. Right up to the point where I have to find a cold place to store several litres of toxic liquid that's out of reach of several small children. :/
Not slating your idea, it's just not practical for me unfortunately.
That sucks for making large quantities but seriously I bought a 120 mil bottle of 12 milligram and was able to turn a gallon of VG into 1 milligrams per milliliter which is what I vape and it made enough juice to last an entire year which is the shelf life anyway.
I know a few vendors are willing to do discounts on orders that would be the same amount as they used to stock (e.g 10x 10ml for the price of 100ml currently) although the concentration will be lowered from 72mg to 20mg or 18mg in some cases (/u/novavapes comes to mind). With that in mind, DIY will definitely still be a possibility, just a little more tedious.
^^^Also ^^^I ^^^just ^^^spent ^^^£100 ^^^on ^^^VG, ^^^PG, ^^^and ^^^two ^^^litres ^^^of ^^^nic.
I can highly recommend these bottles if you plan to stock up, really sturdy with a great cap. If a bottle does go bad it will not spoil your entire supply. Don't forget to use wine preserver or another oxygen free gas in the airgap, it's easier than trying to fill to the brim.
>Nicotine Base Liquid (https://www.gov.uk/guidance/e-cigarettes-regulations-for-consumer-products)
>The TPD requirements on nicotine concentration (20mg/ml maximum) and size of presentation (10ml maximum for refill container and 2ml maximum for e-cigarettes) apply to products sold to end consumers (irrespective of whether the end consumer intends to modify the product).
>The requirements do not apply to ‘trade sales’ i.e. where you are selling industrial quantities to another business and the sale is not directed to a consumer. But for all sales (trade and to consumers) the tank capacity of a refillable e-cigarette must not exceed 2ml.
Even in the article they have end consumer in ", there will probably be an easy loophole that will take forever to be closed. Still may as well stock up, nic base is pretty cheap on Darkstar