There is no space I know of on Reddit for question related to the business side of things so I figured I'd try here. China has a lot of options and some are state side but the problem is there is almost no reviews of any of them and if it breaks your completely screwed. so, what's your solution when you have to fill a lot of bottles besides hand squeezing from 1000ml bottles or using one of those $150 eBay special machines that only do 50ml max at a time?
It sounds like you're making/selling massive quantities of juice. I can speak for most of us here, and I don't think many, if any of us have fancy machines to fill a bunch of smaller bottles via automation. We're mostly hobbyists.
If you get really good at pouring, you don't need to buy anything. If you're a bit shaky, buy a tiny funnel. I've been to stores that indiscreetly squeeze their juice from a large (250-500mL) bottle into the bottle you want to buy (10-100mL) right in front of you. Which, IMO defeats the purpose of a "clean room" and all that jazz, but don't even get me started on that bit.
Yeah i went to a shop that does that but they're still transitioning. Then again I have a theory about how the rules came into being. They told Philip Morris to give them 50 regulations for the vape industry. Then they got a handfull of darts, taped the regulations to the wall, and... you get the rest.
Outsource it to one of the big ejuice manufacturing firms that bottles other people's juices if you're moving that much volume. Molecule Labs comes to mind.
If $1,000 is his budget, then Molecule Labs is way out of his price range.
Molecule Labs has a minimum order of $20,000 (typically at over $4 a bottle)... for most growing businesses this isn't an option.
There are a million co-packing options available to me that's not a concern. I can do a suitable amount per day by hand to justify the clean room and process I'm just looking to see if there is any low cost filling machine worth looking at instead of hand filling.
Why not just find a few people to help and pay them in juice? If you have 5 or so people, you could get a great old fashioned assembly line going and knock out even 1000 bottles in 3-5 hours (that's a total guess but my gf and I are able to do like 4 a minute when one of us labels and the other bottles).
I've had a think about this process before and this is the best method I've come up with focusing on hygiene and cost.
Instead of using mechanical pumps (risk of contamination) id use a stainless vessel (to suit your quantity) and pressurise it with compressed air. It would need to be dried and put through a carbon filter spec'd to food/med standard. That's your pump sorted.
For dispensing and metering of your amounts I'd be looking at a clean, medical grade pinch valve like this, controlled by a decent digital timer like this. That timer is overkill and probably a little pricey but it's safe and accessible to make changes on the fly quickly.
The operation is calibrate the timer to your desired quantity using scales/graduated cylinder. Adjust time up/down for desired quantity and recheck. Place your bottle, press start button.
I have no idea on cycle time or repeat accuracy. Factors such as distance from valve to dispensing point and viscosity changes due to temperature while in operation will obviously reduce the accuracy but could be regulated in the proper environment and qc checks done every hour or something.
It's clean, fast, simple. Flush the system with hot water and dry then you're good for your next run.
I don't have any experience dispensing liquids like this really, I'm a food packaging guy so feel free to rip this apart, improve my ideas whatever. Ive not heard anyone come up with something similar yet so thought I'd put it out there.
I buy by the gallon and then pour into a little "sauce bottle" like this and I can hand fill pretty damn perfect by now.
I would actually really like to see a sub for the business side of things. I've recently started selling juice to friends after DIYing for the last 4 or 5 years, and I see real scope for expanding in future, though it's hard to find decent information about how to start with all the new regulations incoming.
Unless you have boatloads of cash, moving to a legit business plan isn't a thing anymore if you are in the US
If outsourcing is something you might be interested in, send me a private message and I can throw together a quote for you. Outsourcing can be far more cost efficient than setting up your own equipment, and also gives you a leg up with the upcoming regulations.
If you're not interested in outsourcing, I can give you some advice on equipment based on your volume.
Hey first time posting here but I thought maybe I could help. I work as a machine mechanic in a factory that does all types of cosmetics. One of the most simple and effective machines for filling I would say is of the Cozzoli F400XSS Filler. We put product that is basically lipstick through these and also product with the consistency of water also. Filamatic is also a very well known piston filler. Both have E-Liquid sections on their websites but a used/refurbished one can most likely be picked up on ebay or another site. Both would have to have someone filling each bottle if you were to go with the table top machines, but it beats squeezing bottles, and also the speeds can be adjusted to your liking. Very simple machines. Cozzoli, Filamatic, Simplex are some names to check out. You would be surprised what you are able to pump out with those little machines and a conveyor line. All are American made, most in the Northeast.
Trust me, there's nothing out there that's efficient, safe, and reliable for high VG e liquids in that price range.
The paste/cream filling machines might be able to be modified for an extra 10ml or use two machines. Although I've never bought one to see the travel path, lots of the time these cheap pumps/fillers have lubricated gears the substance passes by that may be safe for food stuffs, but vaporizing is a big question mark...
edit:
This isn't just speculation on my part, i've done countless hours of research, there was units around the 4-6k mark that would handle high volume but ultimately their performance with VG would have been a large IF and possibly large repair bills frequently.
I settled on a system of smaller 10ml(max) precision pumps for flavor base and nicotine dispensing and extra PG and large pumps on 4 liter bottles to top the bottle off to a designated fill point. The whole process for a 60ml bottle takes roughly 10 seconds or so, sealing (Induction metal seals) + capping adds another roughly 8 seconds to the bottle. If I was really hauling ass and had my ingredients prepared I can finish 1000 bottles in a typical 8 hour day(a second person can easily double the efficiency). Positive is this allows me to mix direct to order (unfortunately the math involved doesn't allow variations in the recipe though) so I don't have to worry about premixed stock not selling as fast as I need it to and the entire equipment setup is easily serviceable cheaply. But realistically, that much pumping wears your arms out tremendously(VG is thick yo!) and I generally refuse to work with the pumps (presuming i'm alone) for more than 3 hours a day - but it is a really good arm workout!^^for ^^a ^^wimpy ^^nerd ^^like ^^me...
Yes its more efficient to mix large quantities of fully mixed ejuice and then pumped to the bottles directly, but requires allot of start up inventory and space and you will need some device to properly mix 20+ liter bottles regularly to avoid any separation issues. Not to mention one small fuckup and you can be out thousands of dollars in product.
Those inject grease and bearing material into your eliquid, and should never be used for eliquid.
Exactly why I included this comment directly after. But thanks for confirming my suspicion.
> I've never bought one to see the travel path, lots of the time these cheap pumps/fillers have lubricated gears the substance passes by that may be safe for food stuffs, but vaporizing is a big question mark...
My fears keep being confirmed. I have multiple drums of vg and thousands of sq ft so neither of those are a issue l just want to ensure i can create a process that is perfect. Hand filling orders that are even 1,000 bottles have not been a issue but i want to ensure every bottle looks identical on the shelf including the volume of liquid and i figured machine precision would be best. Only problem is i'm not willing to spend 6k on it right now so I figured I'd give it a shot in this range but no such luck.
https://www.accutekpackaging.com/filling-machines/timed-flow-volumetric-filling-machines/semi-automatic/mini-pinch
^^ that's the CHEAPEST equipment I can find at about $4000USD from a ebay seller right now. Problem is VG has a typical viscosity rating of around 1,000 - 1,500 CPS and that machine is only rated to 1,000 CPS. There is theoretically ways(but unknown how viable they are) it can work though, 1 thinning your e liquid with PG or Distilled water - I'd take a shot at the dark saying your looking for about the viscosity of between a 65/35 - 75/25 VG/PG mix. Heating the mixture before dispensing to a precise temperature at which the viscosity lowers and no unnecessary degradation to flavor molecules or nicotine is done. Theres also just plain risk it for the biscuit and hope there 1,000CPS rating is low for safety margins and it may actually hold up fine(my seripettor pumps shouldn't pump VG, but there going strong with 0 issues)
But you don't buy equipment like that with the plan on selling the same volume as what you are now. You buy that and pump out 3-4x as much and go ham on wholesale. Done right the equipment pays for itself in no time.
It's really the only way to get machine perfect, unless you drop a LOT of money into your production.
~~side note: again I'd contact accutek first and make sure this is a pressurized system and does not have any crazy cog shit like the paste machines. Although I think it is fine.~~ edit: confirmed, safe for eliquid use
edit: Hmm this is interesting https://www.accutekpackaging.com/filling-machines/piston-filling-machines/semi-automatic/svf-series they appear to handle the viscocity without issue and use a pretty common system to fill the bottles in the eliquid industry (at least from my breif reserach) and these units can cost dramatically less (depending on the model possibly even close to your orginal budget)
No experience here with this, and have done similar research. Maybe the cheaper machine stepped down to 30ml, and give it a double tap?
Make sure to review the machine internals carefully. Many inexpensive fluid handling devices aren't what you want to be using with different flavors or anything that is going to be for human consumption.
Very curious to hear what you find!
You probably need a mini pinch. They aren't the most accurate, but if you're only doing small runs, I don't see why they wouldn't work. You might be able to ask if they have used ones for sale.
This is only suited for low viscosity liquids.
They use mini pinch systems to fill eliquid. I've seen them being sold at shows and used at other manufacturing labs. Like I said, they aren't as accurate but they work.
edit; for your budget, I would just hire people and hand fill for 2-3 hours to complete it.
The bad thing about buying industrial machinery from china is that the warranty is either nonexistent or impossible to collect on.
The good thing about buying industrial machinery from china is that it's usually simple design, built with standard parts and a trip through the mcmaster-carr catalog can get you running again - if you're willing to do the work or hire someone to do it for you.
If you don't want to budget and plan for fixing machinery, don't get your business involved in machinery at all.
Not really a machine to semi auto your process, but I thought this would really quicken things up if it worked out.
What about a bar style shot system? Just one you can buy from Amazon or eBay or something, where you already have your bottles labelled and just need to press them against the bottom of the machine which dispenses 1oz or a more accurate one if you get one built for you :)