I'd like to talk about Erythritol.
When first hearing about Erythritol used in eliquids, I was a bit skeptical. Why?
Well, Erythritol is a sugar alcohol. So is VG.
Erythritol is approximately 60% as sweet as sugar. So is VG.
Erythritol can be diluted at 5% in VG.
So let's take something that is 60% as sweet as sugar and mix it at 5% with something that is 60% as sweet as sugar. Let's then use this at low percentages in a recipe, further diluting the total amount of this sweet-as-VG-sweetener down to a total of let's say 0.25% if you used 5% in your recipe.
For this use it makes absolutely no sense to name this a sweetener. I can understand the use of sucralose, monk fruit and stevia as sweetners - each and every one of these has a sweetness level 300-1000x that of sugar. A small amount will go a long way to increase sweetness.
But erythritol? Not buying it.
So naturally I went and obtained some pure erythritol powder and tasted that. It has a slight cooling sensation and personally I found it to be less sweet than dripping pure VG on your tongue. This is to be expected - all sugar alcohols bring different taste sensations to the table, in fact VG is often used to combat that coolness some sugar alcohols give when used in foods. So I thought perhaps this is what Erythritol is really used for? A different sensation perhaps - not really sweetening.
Here began my testing. I figured if Erythritol brings any kind of sensation to vaping, I'd probably notice it quickly when vaping a pure max strength erythritol solution straight in my best flavor-RDA. I started with vaping pure VG for establishing a baseline. Then moved on to vaping pure erythritol solution. Couldn't tell any difference at all. Okay - so no additional sweetness established and also no additional sensation like the fizzy coolness of eating it raw.
Perhaps it has some magical emulsifying properties that makes mixes pop? I've tried a few recipes with or without - my go to testing was Nana Cream without dragonfruit where both LA BC and TPA Strawberry badly needs the emulsifier. Nothing.
Erythritol is nice and has it uses in foods - while VG at 60% the sweetness of sugar has MORE calories than sugar, erythritol is nearly a zero-calorie substance. Great for foods - but nothing particularly interesting for vaping. I feel sometimes we are too eager to translate what drives success in food additives over to vaping and are a bit influenced to feel something that may or may not be there.
Is anyone able to actually showcase a use of Erythritol where you can even taste it or taste it's effect on a recipe? If so, please post recipe with and without erythritol and explain what to look for when vaping it - I'll be happy to try. Otherwise, I doubt even if you used erythritol solution as straight up VG base you'd notice anything.
wow this is really interesting. great post. I've noticed that ERY doesn't come close to the type of sweetness that sucralose brings, but it does add sweetness in the way that EM adds sweetness. It's almost inherent, but doesn't actually change the flavor like EM does. Overall, its another tool someone can use, but if you're looking for sucralose sweetness, aint gonna happen unless you pump > 5% in your recipe.
OP is wrong because he forgot to consider the vapor temperature of erythritol versus glycerol.
One of them condenses fast out of vapor (for example, in the mouth, on the lips and tongue) and the other stays in vapor longer and gets exhaled.
Same with any aroma volatile.
Holy shit, you're alive. <3
Thank you for your input Wayne, I'm more than willing to admit I'm completely wrong about Erythritol - I've spent days now trying to make sense of it and doing what I can to fight my own biases in the matter to keep an open mind.
I've tried it pure, I've tried it in recipes, I've tried it as an emulsifier - nothing. And I do enough mixing daily where I adjust my recipes for the most subtle 0.3% changes with each iteration - i'm confident in my "tasting abilities".
Can you find me a mix where erythritol has an actual impact on the recipe? Where you'd at bare minimum taste a real difference leaving it out?
The only time I've used it was in a few of my recipes that have TFA Sweetener in them. I noticed a difference in a Strawberry Cream recipe I like to make where without ERY the strawberry is a bit lacking, but with ERY the strawberry seems a bit more "bright". It's still better with TFA Sweetener though because of how sweet the sucralose is. The recipe is
- CAP Sweet Strawberry - 6%
- CAP NY Cheesecake - 4%
- TFA Marshmallow - 1%
- FW VBIC - 3%
- SWEETENER - 1%
With TFA Sweetener I use 1% and its great. One of my ADV's. With no sweetener, the strawberry is almost watery. With ERY - 3% it's a touch brighter, the mix tastes overall a touch sweeter. It's not what I like with this recipe, but I do notice an additional sweetness. I notice that ERY also has muting properties as the strawberry seems to sit lower in the mix than without sweetener.
edit; and I do want to point out that whatever YOU taste is what matters. if you're not getting anything from it, I would try the other sweeteners like the Monk Fruit or Stevia. They work the same exact way, but you might get more sweetness from them.
I utilize and like Erythritol. I like it around 8% in a mix and it does add sweetness. I have been using NN VG @ 5% Erythritol. A huge plus is the low glycemic index. For those of us trying to avoid indexes above 20 percent, this is perfect. The best thing about it is the high temp caramelization factor. Your coils and cotton will thank you. One thing to note is that you might need to adjust your flavor percentages as Erythritol can mute some. Like anything, it takes experimenting but it works fine for me and others. For more info on glycemic index of natural/artificial sweeteners; http://www.ruled.me/keto-diet-plan-best-and-worst-sweeteners/
Here's where we disagree - I can't taste any additional sweetness when vaping even the solution itself as it it were an eliquid and you claim a total of 0,4% erythritol in a recipe has done this for you.
Is it a recipe you mind sharing, so I can try it with and without the Erythritol?
I have not consumed (and try to avoid vaping) sugars, fructose or any sweetener above 18 GI for 2 years. I find commercial juices using sucralose or sugars to be way too sweet, so perhaps it is a personal palate thing and I am a lot more sensitive to sweetness because of it. When using it, I still find some recipes still require additional sweeteners but in the same way you pair EM with Sucralose, etc. Here are a cpl recipes (some adaptations of others;)
edit: (deleted my specific recipes) I have a bunch sprinkled in my list here that I make for myself; http://e-liquid-recipes.com/?filter=57887
I wouldn't think your lungs would be very good at absorbing VG, and you're talking about a couple ml a day even if 100% of it were entering your bloodstream... I don't see how 8% erythritol would have a noticible impact on your blood sugar vs. straight glycerine in your base. Especially since it's dissolved in the VG so it's not adding much volume. You'd still be getting nearly the same amount of VG in your vapor.
I just want to mention that your confirmation bias can be just as strong as placebo, so I feel the need for an unbiased party to do a blind test of erythritol.
/u/cheebasteeba did a review awhile back. Perhaps he's had more experience with it since then.
I haven't gotten much more experience with it. I rarely find myself needing sweetener when crafting a recipe and, in my brain, ERY is such a niche sweetener that I just haven't needed to use it. I can say though that what I've tried it in, I've tried it with and without and I was definitely able to tell a difference once the ERY was added.
I think this is one that still warrants further testing to determine when and where its presence is a benefit
Well SOAB, I just got the stuff and thought it was gonna be the answer to all my sweet mixes that don't gunk up the coils; much like I thought TFA Dairy\Milk was gonna be the "be all end all" answer to all my cereal and strawberry milk needs.
Still need to try it out (literally just got it in), and I've read it tends to be closer to EM than Sucralose. But in the back of my mind, I knew a magic sweetener that didn't gunk my coils might be to good to be true.
So what's up with this Munk Fruit stuff people been mentioning? Is it sweet, and does it not effect your coils (like has a higher caramelization point than we vape at)?
Not a placebo, you're just mixing too low a concentration. I make my concentrate by adding an excess amount to VG, meaning, more than that VG could possibly dissolve at room temp. This is shaken periodically for a few days to be sure the VG has completely dissolved as much erythritol as it can hold. I do not know what % concentration this is equivalent to, but it doesn't matter. Because of how solubility works so long as I always make my concentrate at the same temperature it will always be a consistent strength.
Even though erythritol is about the same relative sweetness as VG (sort of), the combination of the two in a saturated concentrate has a cumulative effect. Make a concentrate as I describe and you will notice it.
Now the cooling you notice when putting erythritol on your tongue is not simply a false sensation like menthol is, it is literal coldness. This is caused because dissolving erythritol is an endothermic process. This is the same way an instant ice pack works when you break the bubble of liquid inside, the dissolving salt it contains causes the pack to get cold. Concerning erythritol, the cooling only occurs the instant it dissolves, you won't notice it adding a coolness to a vape because it already sucked up all the heat it needed long ago when it was first mixed.