Ok, so I dropped about 55 bucks on DIY supplies and I need to convince the wife its not a frivolous pursuit. What are your personal experiences on monetary savings when switching to DIY from store-bought liquid? Is it worth the investment / hassle to make it myself? Anecdotes welcome! ~J
Provided you buy every flavor in 10-15ml bottles at the start, a scale, bottles, pipettes, and a decent supply of PG/VG/Nic, once you get past the initial outlay for flavors, which might last a few months, you'll be in the hole, but, after that, you're just re-upping "trial" flavors, and the winners you want in bigger bottles. That works out to chump change when you consider what you're paying for premium or even house juice a month.
It's a rough investment at first, but it pays off quickly.
^(maybe a little slower if you're flavor-promiscuous like me.)
Watch this video. by u/Enyawreklaw . Breaks it down pretty well. Granted if you buy a bunch of flavors to create your own recipies it goes up drastically. But if you stick to a few tried and true recipies by other people the video is pretty accurate..nsfw or kids though (some cussing if I remember right)
This is the one. Also make sure to check out his recipes on E-liquid Recipes. They are usually complex with more than just 3 or 4 flavors, but if you follow them and give em a week to steep, you WILL want to keep DIYing.
Good advice but I prefer All The Flavors
Honestly, i feel like this video is half retarded, i get his point, but i know basically no one who spends that much for pre-mix juice unless they are ballin out of control. My local b&m, not even an online shop sells great quality 60ml bottles for 23.50$ out the door, and this is for a house juice thats comparable to stuff from vaporchef or indigo. I just feel like if you are going to make a video espousing the benefits on DIY, at least use a figure thats more true to the average vapers budget, seriously, do people really spend 200$ a month on juice?
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But you should make the target words, in this case TREE FIDDY or 3.50$, bolded or something in your response.
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look at when the video was made... a lot has changed since then.
a lot of vapers I know spend a lot of money for juice, especially if they sub ohm. premium juice in Canada is expensive as fuck, $1/ml for most decent stuff. This has improved lately with 60ml bottles at a cheaper price point becoming more prominent but it still doesn't compare to the savings you would get DIYing.
My local place sells "premium" juice for anywhere between $17-22 for a 30ml. Their house juice runs $26 for a 50ml. But yes even with your figures and my 30ml or more usage a day I'd be spending on average $352.50 a month or around $4280 a year. Now if I bought their cheepest premium juice, bring that up to $517 a month or $6200 a year.
Even with me buying around $600 on getting a bunch of flavors and other necessities since I started a few months ago, iv spent less than I would have on 2 months of buying b&m and have enough stuff toake loads more juice.
There's a reason I went to diy when I started doing sub ohm and then rebuilding.
My personal experience is that I've still spent less than I would have vaping "premium" juice despite constantly collecting flavourings and bottles.
If you're just intending to make recipes that are out there, you're going to save a lot of money. If you intend to make your own recipes then it's going to cost you a lot more. It's entirely dependent on the route you want to take.
Making your own recipes is fine as long as you hate-vape your shitty creations rather than dump them out.
I'm not looking to make the next big thing or go into business, just to find a flavor I can live with and (hopefully!) not go broke vaping when the PA tax horsecrap goes into effect.
You'll probably be fine. I'd suggest starting with some of the single flavour "recipes", stuff like LB's strawberry cheesecake, FA's morning sun or perhaps you'd enjoy something simple like TFA Strawberry + Strawberry Ripe. It may take a bit of playing around, but as you said, you're more into finding something decent to vape over blowing your cock off with olfactory orgasms.
Also check out the flavour reviews in the sidebar, a great deal to look at and choose from - it may help inform your decisions and avoid spending on things you'll never use.
I bought it all from www.nicvape.com . I'm currently mixing Last Stand Vapor's Room 21 and Ruthless' Ez Duz it on ice (using up the dregs). I bought strawberry, watermelon and menthol flavorings with all the carriers and the nic. I'm not shooting for a home run, just something I can live with.
I just did the breakdown on a recipe today where I made 400mL of juice using 6 flavors. It wound up being 3.4 cents per mL. This does not include taxes, shipping charges (because I always try to buy enough to get free shipping), coupons, or bottles and syringes.
Compare suicide bunny's mothers milk for 120mL for $65ish or Mad Murdock which is 30mL for $20. Brick and mortar's sell their 30mL for like $9-18 right? I always hated B&m juice so that normally wound up in the tradh after half a bottle anyway.
Let's compare one of the cheapest eliquid vendors that I know of, Vape wild. They sell 480mL for between $60-65. If my math is right, it winds up being 12.5 cents per mL (not including taxes, shipping, the bottle, and factoring in coupons or freebies.)
Additionally, what I use to make eliquid for 3.4 cents per mL can be used to make other flavors of eliquid. That 12.5 cents per mL bottle of eliquid is only ever going to be that one flavor.
3.4 x 30 = 102. A dollar and two cents a 30ml bottle. I fucking love you if this works out for me!
I just did another calculation with a simpler recipe of a Space Jam Pluto Clone. 3 flavors: honeydew, bubblegum, and peppermint. I used TFA, CAP, and TFA prices on bull city vapor (it's supposed to be all TFA but they don't carry TFA bubblegum.) Once again, not factoring in shipping, taxes, coupons, syringes or bottles. The math does include 100mg/mL nicotine (from wizard labs so your price will likely be slightly different), VG and PG from Essential Depot on Amazon (free shipping with prime membership.) I'm pretty sure I got my PG cheaper from a tack and feed store when I bought a gallon one time, but I don't recall what I paid. Probably on par with amazon's essential depot-- $25ish for a gallon of either, and $11 for a quart. My math used the quart prices.
400mL again. Using the smallest options (so most expensive per mL) the total wound up being $15.79 or roughly 4 cents per mL (3.9 cents/mL.) If you bump that up to buying 4oz of the honeydew and bubblegum which are 8% and 4% of the recipe respectively, the price comes down to $11 total for the 400mL, which winds up being slighly less than 3 cents per mL (2.7 cents/mL.)
Unless you start playing with Medicine Flower flavors ($22/15mL) you should be roughly in the same ballpark as my calculations. Things can get spendy if you're experimenting with a lot of recipes. When you start out, follow other people's recipes. You will have to substitute from time to time. Just take notes on what was substituted or when the ratios were different from what the recipe stated, and you should be good. Then once you've substituted enough and read enough about preferred percentages, you kind of have an idea of what to do with making a recipe from scratch, but even then you will likely waste stuff-- so I hope you have a lot of friends who vape who don't have picky palates!
Math checks out. Gone are your days of being a slave to the industry. There are a few tag on costs like buying more bottles if you give them away to incompetent people who don't think to return them, and new syringes if you wear off the numbers or the rubber seals get worn out. If you clean syringes in dishsoap, the seals in the syringe will fall apart. My solution was to buy one syringe for each flavoring and they've lasted longer than the ones I would clean constantly. Saves time and money in the long term .
About 1 dollar per 30 ml bottle is what I came up with when I started diy. That includes the bottles. But definitely cheaper. When I switched from smoking I was buying 3 cartons a month at $60+ per. These days I think cartons go for $80 or more here. That being said I can buy pretty much a years worth of diy supplies with what I would have spent for 1 month of cigarettes.
I'm not representative of the diy community, but here's my experience:
After about a year of screwing around with different flavors, I got lazy/cheap and didn't buy flavors for a while. While a waited for a flavoring order to ship I just mixed without flavoring. Turns out plain vg is sorta yummy. Another year later and I almost exclusively vape flavorless juice. I could list a dozen unexpected benefits of the switch, but for the sake of your question, the important part is that it is dirt cheap.
About every 6 months I buy a quart of vg ($12 Amazon) and 120ml of 60mg nic in pg base ($12 wizard labs). Toss in a few bottles and syringes, and I spend about $60/year on juice.
I don't expect many people here want to ditch flavors, but if you vape primarily as a cheaper and safer alternative to cigarettes, it's worth your while to try flavorless for a few days and see what you think. I'd recommend trying it on a fresh build.
Any insight as to what it tastes like? I'm intrigued! Just 100% VG or with nic mixed in? I tried to jump down from 3mg to 0 without success. I was thinking I could do a '3 - 2 -1' stepdown if I mix it myself.
1 part 60mg/ml nic concentrate in PG, 9 parts plain old VG. Since I always use 30ml bottles, I use a 10ml syringe to squirt in 3ml of concentrate, then carefully pour in VG til a smidge from the top, and shake.
Vegetable glycerin is used as a sweetener (among many other things), though mostly in food for diabetics, cuz sugar is better at sweetening. Coming from flavors, it's probably going to taste like absolutely nothing. If you ever used that wick with a flavor, it'll taste like a really weak version of that. The taste of gunky coils, toasty cotton, or iffy nic concentrate are stronger than the sweetness. It just a dull sweetness which is in the background of every juice you've ever vaped. It's almost nothing, but it's just enough to be nice.
Concerning jumping from 3mg to 0, if you have both 3 and a 0 of the same flavor you can make a gradient on your own without any fancy supplies.
Well, I spent about $80 on my first order two months ago, and last week I got some more VG for $13. Husband and I both vape and were spending about $30 a week on juice. Since I starting mixing, we haven't bought any other eliquid, so in two months we have saved.... around $150, and we have enough supplies that we could keep on for several months without spending a dime. Not bad! We have been vaping for 5 months, and now we each have a few good setups that we really like, so we are now actually seeing the cost savings from smoking to vaping as well. Basically anything we buy at this point (other than batteries) is more of a splurge than a necessity.
How much juice do you use daily? As a dripper I was using almost 30ml a day and buying house juice for $20/30ml. Roughly $7200 a year. DIY, once I found a few recipes I enjoy as a rotation, costs roughly $5-6 a day(I haven't checked the cost lately and it's probably a high estimate). Less than $2000 a year. Friends and family will usually be asking for juice which can help off set the cost. Trade them 120ml for a $30 bag of 30ml bottles.
Yeah, unless you're using the most expensive extracts and flavorings, you're probably sitting at between $1-3 a day.
I just did one of my main recipes for 400mL which has 6 flavors, and one is more expensive because it's Inawera. Wound up being 3.4 cents per mL. Husband drips as well and probably does 20mL a day.
I guess you could hit 5-6 dollars if you were factoring in continually experimenting with expensive flavorings.
I use the Kanger Dripmod and go through about ... 7.5 ml a day. (a 30 ml bottle lasts me about 4 days). I'm buying at about 24 dollars for 30 ml, and I fear for the big tax-jump coming in october. If I can just find 1 flavor I can live with! I'm not a vaper by hobby, they just caught me by the short-hairs in the middle of my big plan to get off cigarettes. I don't need to love it, I just need to be able to tolerate it.
I started making my own juice three months ago. In that time I've spent a total of $160 on supplies. This includes vg, pg, nic, flavors, and mixing hardware.
Using this, I have supplied myself and a couple of friends with more high quality juice than we ever dreamed of. I still have about 1/3 of my ingredients.
So rough estimate, I'm spending about$30 a month on diy and giving away as much as I vape.
If I had started out with other people's recipes, and not wasted ample supplies working out my own, I would have spent even less.
No doubt, for sub ohm vapers who go through a lot juice, diy will save you $$$$$$$.
If you go through 2 ml a day, it might not have a big impact. If you go through many times that, you'll start to see savings right away. Either way, start small. Some investments, while fun, won't be justifiable if money is that important.
My personal opinion is that I don't care if I spend a small fortune on this, since it's keeping me off cigarettes. It's an investment in quality of life and a small price to pay for a better health. Plus, it's a fun hobby and I'd just spend the money on some other ultimately pointless entertainment.
Got a stater pack from nude nicotine for 30 dollars that included all the measuring equipment, 3 flavors, nicotine juice, pg, and vg for 30 dollars. Lasted me 2 months vaping about 5ml a day. Got about 250ml of of it I think. Way cheaper.
Wow! Where did you go for the starter pack?
I got it from nudenicotine.com. It was the 'Average Nudist' DIY Starter Kit. I can't find it on their site right now. On mobile, so that doesn't help. Give them at least 2 weeks for shipping.
Edit: Found it. https://www.nudenicotine.com/product/average-nudist-diy/
Right now I'm averaging between $0.04 and $0.07 per ML of juice. I get exactly what I want and I get to tweak things that are not what I'm in the mood for.
So for comparison, some the cheaper juice to buy online is from MBV (although I'm sure there is others out there as I have not bought in a LONG time), and they charge $7.99 for 30 ml or $0.27 per ML. NM not nearly as cheap as I thought...
Then there is some of the bigger and more popular people like Adirondack Vapor. Placid (one of the most popular) goes for $14.99 for 30 ML, or $0.50 ish per ML.
I have made a clone that is 'close' to that, and only costs $0.07 per ml and 'THE' most expensive one I can make as of right now. Savings over 120 ML is around $51.56.
You also know exactly what you are putting into it, and most of the time where it comes from. You can also step down the nicotine (if you use it) much more slowly than most options you can get online/B&M.
Just a few things in my personal experience.
I'm sure I haven't spent half as much as I spent on smoking one pack each day.
I have a great hobby, lots of mods, tanks, RDAs, mixing equipment, concentrates, bases and nic. I have two ADVs and hundreds of little bottles of experimental mixes, but I can't help but wonder if I need yet another vanilla concentrate.
Does the wife vape? If so, make her a 120ml bottle of e-liquid she loves and tell her it costed $3.
I pretty much vape for free now. I just buy diy supplies now, but that ain't shit compared to buying commercial juice all the time. I sell to a few people too. Bam. Put that money back into diy stuff. Repeat.
Spent £80 a few weeks ago. Made £140 worth of ejuice compared to the brand I used to smoke. Sold some making around £30 and still have supplies to make a lot. I'm already nearly £100 up.
Start a spreadsheet and track what you make and tally it versus the cost of the juice you used to make
Having a family member own a shop and getting juice at cost from their distributor(usually 50% off), I still felt I was spending too much and found that DIY has saved me so much.
I can only imagine people that have to pay retail on juice and how much money they're throwing away.
Since I haven't heard this brought up before, you might consider letting your wife know that sets of DIY juices being sold barely used is fairly common on the classifieds groups, and I rarely see much of a delay. So, from an investment perspective, I think you're actually quite safe -- you'll be out some value since it isn't new, as well as the cost of shipping -- but I don't think it's completely wasted if a newbie buys 30 flavorings and then decides it isn't for them, for example.
As for the hassle -- this is definitely a hobby that requires some patience as you learn and find some good mixes that you can use regularly. That said, if you can do it, you can easily spend an hour and make quite a lot of juice that will last you quite awhile, so it's only as much of a hassle as you really want to make of it, I think.
Some of the recipes I've found around here taste better than the premium liquids I used to buy that were nearly $1/ml. I use Carolina Xtracts nicotine which is about double in price from NN or the other suppliers, and it still only costs me $1.50 per 30ml bottle to make.
I made 19 different flavors the other day, 2x 30ml bottles of each, and iirc when I crunched the actual numbers it came out to like $93 for 1.14L of liquid.
Over the last 4 months since I started, I have spent about $150. Still have a shitload of supplies. Was spending about $60 - 80 per month on budget juice. The cost for me has been less than half of my juice budget even buying all the one time shit like a scale. I managed to buy an rx200s with 2 sets of batteries and 2 new rdas and I'm still not over budget.
As long as you don't get sucked into the gotta have em all hype then you'll save money, or at the very least spend the same but be able to make wayyyyy more juice. I've gone through phases where I had to have this this this that and those, then I go months without ordering about flavors.
You said you were looking for money saving examples to show your wife? Just tell her instead of cooking any meals at home she should start only buying frozen dinners. See if that gets more expensive than making your own meals at home.
It took me about a month to find a few things I liked well enough to go "okay, I can vape this and not miss premium liquids." Now, I prefer my own liquids and already have all the hardware I need. I can make a 120mL bottle for about 5.50, and a dollar of that is the cost of the bottle, so it's actually less than that most of the time.
It's sort of a situation where you spend more at first, but once you get a system in place it becomes significantly less expensive than buying from a store. Also, the liquids are WAY better than any "house juices" I have had.
Keep a spreadsheet on Google Docs. Install Sheets on your phone. Before buying something trivial, take a look at how much you've spent Vs. how much you've saved.
Then blow the savings on mods and shit. I look like a fucking YouTube reviewer with all these mods and attys lying around. I literally have a mod/atty combo for every recipe I make.
In your second year, after you have bought everything you could ever reasonably buy, you'll start to save money. Looking at my own spreadsheet; I've saved $1,500 so far in nearly two years of DIYing.
Well I spent 90 bucks(1gallon VG, 120ml 100mg Nic, tons of flavors) and yeah I might have to buy a couple more flavorings but this equals out to roughly 3700ml...seems worth it to me...
P.S: Tried a few recipes I found, wasn't a fan, started looking at recommended percentages and mixing what I think would taste good together and could not be happier with the flavors, it's easier then I though tbh.
think I've spent around 150 - 200.. total on diy this year (including wick wire and bottles) ..at a 10 to 15 ml a day habit i'm still set for a while.. will need to restock on vg pg and nic around black friday again.
id say i ruffly cut my liquid expenses to about 1/8th of what it was and i vape more of it than i used to due to better equipment. it would be more savings if i didn't have the occasional unvapeable mix pop up every now and then. (managed to make 60 mls once that tasted like plastic and unsalted butter.. still unsure what happen there)
in relative terms i dont even know i how i afforded cigs one month of that is like my entire budget now.
My personal experience: For the first few months, it was actually more expensive. But after I nailed down a few all day vapes (it's not that hard with all the info out there), it's far cheaper. My most expensive juice costs me about 4$/60ml. I keep making the same ~10 recipes.
DIY is still very mystical to new vapers and it seems so technical that's most can't be bothered. On this basis I've tried explaining to people how simple it is and the responses I got were "if it's so simple would you mind making me some next time you do a batch?" Cha-ching!
Now I don't make money off of my friends exactly but we all go through different flavours and clones and have a bit of a vote on what we like and I make orders online now for around £100 a month. What I charge people covers my costs of testing and materials usually leaving me with a few bottles to vape myself. It's a pretty cushy little deal to be honest.
Shop I go to sells 'house blends' 30ml for $15 + tax (.06% in FL), unless there's sales. When there are, it's b2g1. so a little over $30 for 90ml on sale.
I can get 1000ml of PG and 1000ml of VG at Bullcity for $15 each. Flavoring is dirt cheap too, depending on what you're getting. assuming a 50/50 mix (I do 80/20 vg / pg) that's 2000ml for 30+ shipping, vs 30 for 90ml. That's a big savings, even after you factor in flavoring and nicotine cost.
Late to your party, but I wanted to add something.
This is my first DIY post, I just got my flavors and VG last night, and this is how I justified it to my GF:
I spent $91.05 on VG, Nic, and flavors. The total production will be 3.33 liters of ejuice. At 3333ml, that works out to 111 30ml bottles.
I typically vape 15ml/day, so that $91.05 works out to about $0.41 cents a day for juice.
I last ordered juice 30 days ago, and I spent $110.47. I still have about two weeks worth, but even at 6 total weeks that's $2.63 per day. And THAT was ordering during 50% off/BOGO sales.
Hahahahahahahahahahaha.
No.
Your reply seems to run contrary to everyone else's. Would you care to expound?
I've purchased wayyyyy too many flavors that I probably won't ever use in a released recipe. I'm not tracking how much I eould have spent on juice without DIY, but I've spent maybe 2.5k on flavors, nicotine, and pgvg.