As things are in the US it's not illegal to sell nic, flavorings. VG and PG individually.
However selling juice you've made is.
So what if you put the right amount flavorings in one vial, the right amount of nic in another and the vg/pg mix in a third that's big enough to hold it all together and let the buyer pour it all together?
Edit: obviously if you mix for people on the low no one will say shit, but if you have sales open to the public and have strangers buy things you might as well have been selling weed through Facebook.
I know a B&M shop that does this already to "get around" the Indiana restrictions. Sketchy as heck.
There's a long history of this sort of thing, btw: "After dissolving the brick in a gallon of water, do not place the liquid in a jug away in the cupboard for twenty days, because then it would turn into wine."
Just use a base that has been tested(approved). Sell a bottle with X% missing, and a flavouring vial along with it. advise the customer it is not intended to be mixed together, but you can not dictate what they do with products they purchase.
Granted at the moment there probably is 0 companies that have applied for PMTA for bases, but there certainly will be come closer to the 2018 mark.
EDIT: This comment of mine below is most likely incorrect, because I didn't realize they'd added "or expected" after "intended" and before "use."
The thing is, intended use. You can do this and say that the intended use is not for vaping, but I don't see how that's any different than selling the finished product and saying it's not for vaping... It's beard oil, or flavored nicotine-enhanced sex lube (tingly!), or whatever you want it to be. People get around intended use all the time. I can go down to the head shop down the street and buy a bong but I have to call it a "glass water pipe for tobacco use only" or some crap like that because they will actually kick me out of the shop for saying things like bong, marijuana, weed, or whatever. Just for saying it, as a customer, because they're serious about staying on the right side of that intended use line.
Regardless of whether this is the best loophole to use or not, I think you're doing the right thing thinking about loopholes. These regulations are unjust and as citizens we have a moral obligation to disobey unjust laws.
> The thing is, intended use.
They fixed that loophole. It's now "intended or expected use" and you're going to have a really hard time arguing that there's no reasonable expectation that people are going to vape your nicotine-enriched beard glycerin.
As insane as it sounds, you'd probably be better off relocating to someplace with legal recreational marijuana and selling it as flavouring mix for hash oil, "For marijuana product use only."
> As insane as it sounds...."For marijuana product use only."
As a resident of Oregon and a vaper, the thought has crossed my mind once or twice. I don't think it's all that insane an idea, actually.
Yes, the intended use language screws everything up. So if anyone plans on selling concentrates (at least in the vaping industry), you MUST FILE, and that way you can sell for the next two years until this is all reworked or you get the funding needed to do the PMTA testing.
This is all so retarded. The government's coming down harder on vaping than it is on drug-core drug paraphernalia. I can go buy a beautiful hand-blown glass crackpipe right now and as long as I pretend it's for tobacco, wink wink, it's all good. If the cops catch me with it, they can't charge me with anything unless there's cocaine residue inside (although they'll probably break it because they're cops).
But get caught selling one bottle of Funetti-flavored sex lube and prepare to fucked without it by the FDA. Way to go, USA.
Yeah its a cruel joke. The consensus out in the UK as well is that they got off easy with the TPD, and that should say something. I don't see much of these regs sticking the way they are right now after these lawsuits. But that doesn't mean things will be the way we want. The industry is changing and unless we stay ahead of it all, it'll be easy to get boxed out. DIY is relatively safe, as long as these companies still sell us flavorings and bases so we have to do our best to support the ones who support us.
A stated intended use can be perfume as the process is almost identical.
But that doesn't address the "expected use" issue that I've just been made aware of.
I like the sex lube idea better away. Except for nicotine, the ingredients are identical to flavored sex lube, and I like the idea of people fapping with my recipes.
Seems a good way to get yourself sued. Most customers aren't as knowledgable as us here and I am sure some idiot will just vape the vial of nic and get sick.
Maybe if you added the nic to the vg/pg so if they vaped that by mistake, it at least wouldn't hurt them.
My plan is to just halt pre-mixed juice sales at some point, but continue to sell concentrated flavors (which are also good as soda bases, candy bases, etc...) and let the customer source their own nicotine and dilutants.
I am not sure how reselling nicotine will fit into the deeming regulations, that may become clearer later.
One thing is for sure, if it is marketed to vaping, or marketed to use in ENDS devices, its regulated under the document as its written. How that will hold up under scrutiny is unclear.
>One thing is for sure, if it is marketed to vaping, or marketed to use in ENDS devices, its regulated under the document as its written
That's what I'm worried about. But a 'small scale diy kit' isn't much different than one you can get from any of the vendors we use here and diy itself is in the clear. So, I would hope that the act of the customer mixing pre measured stuff shouldn't be in issue
A local shop i talked to said they are gonna have users mix there own to get around it. So they fixed that loophole where they can't?
I'm not sure I follow what you're asking.
My local vape shop is going to allow people to make the juice on hand at the counter with droppers. That is what they told me they are going to do. Is this legit or did the FDA already close that loop hole?
That's basically what my original post is about.
I want to say that if you sell the components separately then the customer is now mixing their own juice which is not under the regulation of the FDA.
However, because it's in a shop I have no idea if they can instruct the customer how to do it or not.
This is why I proposed selling the correct quantity of each component so they they just have to pout everything together without any measurements.
am I missing something that forbids shops from mixing juice? Register as a manufacturer at the end of the year.. there are no guidelines and there is no reason why you can't that I've seen until they make it more restrictive... The only guidance boils down to you can't make it worse than it already is... If your mixing is sanitary then I don't see a problem.. Am I wrong here?