Hi guys!
I am an employee at DIY-Ejuice and we just got our hands on some PDO flavourings from Real Flavors. I was chosen to be the guinea pig in trying these flavors this weekend... however I am always a cautious panda when it comes to new chemicals I am inhaling. All the information I have been reading is roughly a year old so I am going to tag /u/abdada, and /u/fizzmustard for this and see if anything new came in.
From what I have gathered so far, PDO or 1,3 Propanediol is in the same family as 1,2 Propanediol (or PG).. it just has an extra carbon atom that is situated differently in the molecular structure. I have also found that there is technically less toxicity from PDO than there is from PG. It carries flavor better, has a delayed flavor response, and there was a study of rats being subjected to PDO vapor and there was no death or toxicity found in them.
But.. that being said. Who here has actually tried PDO? I would much rather have anecdotal posts then more studies, because I have read quite a bit that give me an idea of this chemical!
Gotta tag in a comment. But /u/abdada is rip and /u/fizzmustard is so rich he doesn't Reddit anymore. But try /r/deeper_diy
Edit: I guess fizz still be around cause he's a boss
I'm still around, just was asked not to post in this sub!
Wait...oops.
What, seriously? Is this some DIYDrama we haven't been privy to? You are such a respected contributor -- it doesn't make sense to repress you. Is it because of your juice line and possible conflict of interest?
I've made tons of juices using PDO and I find them to be much smoother than typical PG/VG blends. I'm not a fan of an artificial throat hit, so this is good for me. The recipes seem to steep faster, but u have to be careful because some Flavors react differently to PDO than PG. I've been vaping PDO made juices for over a year and have noticed no ill effects. A glycol is a glycol at the end of the day, regardless of where it's derived from. So I'd say it's a safe alternative to PG for those who want to try it out.
> A glycol is a glycol at the end of the day, regardless of where it's derived from. So I'd say it's a safe alternative to PG for those who want to try it out.
1,3-Propanediol is not a glycol. Glycol commonly refers to vicinal diols (neighboring OH groups). Your reasoning about toxicity sounds a bit oversimplified. A small change in structure can lead to a totally different toxicity. Think about ethylene glycol vs. PG or benzene vs. toluene or ethanol vs. methanol. But don't get me wrong, I know nothing about 1,3-propanediol safety and don't want to insist anything.
I am not a chemist, I am just going off of what the leading manufacturer of 1,3-PDO says. Dupont states it's a Glycol, unless I'm reading their information wrong?
http://www2.dupont.com/Bio-based_Propanediol/en_CN/products/susterra/index.html
It's uncommon. DuPont names the product "Susterra® 1,3-Propanediol". ChemSpider, MerckMillipore, Alfa Aesar, TCI, and all the others name it 1,3-propanediol. So if you're searching for information it's smart looking for this name. EDIT: Maybe my wording was a bit too strong, my point was what's common and that glycol for non vicinal diols may cause irritation among chemists.
Any idea where I can buy some today? All the usual suspects say out of stock. Are you still using it?
>DIY-Ejuice
Just wanna say, I appreciate you guys. Best selection north of the border :)
Thank you!
We have had some restructuring happen along with an influx of flavors, so things are... always hectic. Comments like that make it worth it however!
New flavors you say? Did Garuda INW happen to come in yet? Anything noteworthy in the tobacco category?
And ya, seriously best customer experience I've had so far. Selection great, packaging top notch, ship time speedy. Fairly perfect score sir!
http://iglesia.cchem.berkeley.edu/Publications/2010%20Diaz%20Chem%20Sus%20Chem%20Homogeneous%20Oxidation%20of%20Diols.pdf
I found a study investigating the reactivity of 1,3-propanediol at low temperatures in the presence of oxygen. Low means 400 - 600 K or 127 - 327 °C. In table 1 there are some examples shown, conversion rates of 1,3-propanediol, selectivities for acrolein formation at different residence times (6 - 18.6 s). I wonder how this might apply here.
EDIT: typo
FunkMast3r, Don't get me wrong, I love DIY-Ejuice and get alot of my flavoring there. However, I am a bit disappointed to see the site as it is now. At least to me, it seems like it was acquired by Real Flavors the day DIY stocked every single one of their flavors. Most distressing is that you do not seem to be acquiring new flavors from other suppliers. Do I have reason to worry or am I paranoid?
FRoSTy
Dude, check Gremlindiy.com -- their Real Flavors inventory is just as vast as DIY-Ejuice's, so I don't think either of them have been acquired by RF. Actually, I've been bouncing between Gremlindiy and DIY-Ejuice for restocking my flavors. If Gremlin ups their stock of INW flavors, I might just entirely go with them, as their shipping cost, as well as overall pricing, is better than DIY-Ejuice's.
On a slightly-related note: I believe that DIY-Ejuice made a huge mistake in betting so much on One on One. I don't know what's going on behind the scenes at DIY-Ejuice, but OoO has a really bad rep in the community for producing extremely bad-tasting flavors and also having terrible customer service. It's easy to see that there are hardly any recipes released that feature OoO concentrates. I wish DIY-Ejuice carried more Hangsen, to be honest. /u/FunkMast3r, what say you? More Hangsen would be great (Apple Mix, French Vanilla Ice Cream, etc.)
OOO has some wicked ass flavors, our top sellers are:
Blue raspberry Green apple candy
The issue with Hangsen is that its China.... And they only do bank transfers... As in we have to go to the bank and wire it over before we get it shipped to us. Shipping isnt bad, its roughly a week and we will be getting more non tobacco flavors (french vanilla and french vanilla ice cream) but a huge issue is that I have to be at the shop all the time and when my boss is gone I cant waltz into his bank and take his money and spend it :p
That being said, we are bringing liquid barn in very soon here and we are figuring out new lines to bring in :)