Welcome back friends!
So you've been doing your single batch tests, mixing other people's juices, and training your palate. You're totally ready to make the next Rhondonite, right? Yeah, I thought I was too at that point. Truth be told, I still have to remind myself to tone it down on the stupid number of ingredients I put into my recipes. Thank you /u/crosstown_rebel
There is a lot more to making a 10 flavor juice than just adding in 10 ingredients you think will taste good. As you start off your actual mixing journey, it's important to keep your mixing simple at first.
#Learn How Flavors Interact
Just because you're keeping your juice simple doesn't mean complex things aren't happening in your juice. They are chemically reacting worth each other and changing composition. CAP Sweet cream is a delicious flavor, especially in a dairy or dessert vape, but the second you start to add fruit to it, I can promise you're juice isn't going to turn away the way you originally envisioned it. The fruit will be very muted and nearly nonexistent depending the ratios of the two flavors you used.
Koolada is super fun to use in fruit vapes to add a nice cooling effect, but if your add it to a dessert or cream juice, you are going to get a pretty gnarly band-aid off taste.
Taking the time to slow down and build 2-4 flavored juices gives you the ability to identify how your flavors are actually interacting and what percentages they go best together. Trying to find the cause of these same interactions in a 6-8 flavor juice is much more challenging. Adding too many flavors that don't go together can just create a muddled mess.
#Simple Recipes can be just as complex
Mustard Milk by /u/fizzmustard. Enough said.
Take the time to learn which of your flavors stand sufficiently on their own. Don't get discouraged by people posting 8 flavored juices. There is no guarantee their juice is any more complex than your 3 flavored juice.
With that said, also take the time to learn which flavors don't stand on their own, but don't just assume it without trying. TFA pineapple is amazingly complex and realistic. It doesn't need anything else to benefit and add to the profile. However, I have yet to find a single orange flavor that doesn't need help from another one when I want orange to be the main profile. My favorite is FW blood orange, but I still have a hard time using it by itself because it's a great base, but lacks backbone and top note citrus. I usually like putting some CAP juicy orange or CAP sweet tangerine with it, depending where it needs it in the recipe.
#Get Feedback
Until people start to acknowledge you as a successful mixer, people aren't going to go out and buy flavors just for your mixes. Unfair, popularity contest, narrow minded, etc, but whatever you want to call it, it's the truth. Don't get too caught up in it though. My most popular recipe to date is still Best Damn Pink Lemonade with only 4 ingredients.
Think about it realistically though. There's not a single person in this community who has every single flavor. You're more likely to get feedback if mixing your juice is easy and people actually have the flavors you are using.
With that said, there is one other note to make here: Learn to leave not just good, but great notes on your recipe. That is the single biggest factor in whether people will pay attention to your post.
#Bonus Recipe
Back to Basics|% ---|--- FLV Wild Melon|3 FLV Boysenberry|1 FW Whipped Cream|2 TFA Koolada|0.25
#Conclusion
Taking baby steps is an important step in becoming a good mixer. No one starts off being able to make Rhodonite after a month of mixing. I can honestly say I'm not even at that point even though I mix about 2-3 hours a day, every day.
Be sure to catch Matthew Kocanda, Jack, and myself on Beginner Blending tonight at 9pm EST. www.mixlr.com/inthemix-podcast.
You can find my previous Modest Mondays at /r/ModestMonday
Why FW Whipped over TFA? When I first looked at that recipe on ATF I swear you had .5% TFA Whipped in there, too. Am I just crazy or did you change it?
No, I definitely changed it.
I made two batches, but I just don't like TFA whipped cream in the recipe. It doesn't play well with the FLV wild melon. It starts to accent that weird melon off flavor, whereas FW whipped cream smoothes it out.
FLV Cream plays really nicely with FLV Wild Melon. Learned that from /u/cheebasteeba Not sure if it fits the profile you're going for, but it could be a worthy addition
I accidentally ordered FW whipped cream instead of FA whipped cream because I'm an idiot, and am having a hard time with it. It has a heavy, eggy or baked kind of taste to it that doesn't seem right, and it's also super throaty. I'm pretty sure I only used it at 2-3% but damn. Did I get a bad one or is it always like this?
Great post I found the part about leaving detailed and interesting notes very compelling. On one of Wayne's recent in the music podcasts he talked about really selling your recipe if you want people to mix it. Unfortunately that advice came too late for me as I had just post my recipe. Don't feel I did a great job selling it and only got feedback from two or three people.
> gnarly band-aid off taste.
How do you know what a band-aid tastes like?
Was working on a cappucino band-aid mocha.
Had to figure out how to nail the recipe as accurately as possible
Understood. I know what a band-aid tastes like too, and I don't want to talk about it again either.
I disagree with your description of TFA Pineapple as "realistic" but that doesn't take much of anything away anything from this terrific post that I should probably bookmark and re-read weekly. Thanks again for continuing to do these Modest Mondays.
A lot of the problems start when people try to "emulate" certain ingredients in recipes. They'll take some Martha Stewert recipe and attempt to replicate it by picking a flavor for each ingredient. 99% of the time this ends up making flavors muddled or downright gross. I'm pretty sure this started happening when HiC from Vaping Underground started posting his recipe processes a few years ago, and it's never really stopped. Hell, I used to do it too.
Nice post Vurve. It's nice to see some people attempting to tilt mindsets in another direction.
I've been mixing for over 2 years now and learning this earlier than I did would have saved me a whole lot of time. Every single time I would try even 3 ingredients right from the start, even if I knew what percentage range should be about right, would lead to just weird un-vapable messes. Now with all this experience that only happens about 75% of the time with 2 flavors!
I just got a bunch of 5ml bottles that I use for single flavor testing. My theory is that I can drip two or more flavors at the same time for a simple test to see which combos taste good. Seems like that could be an easier way to at least plan on a real test mix. Having a few of those singles steeping, who knows if it will work...
> My theory is that I can drip two or more flavors at the same time for a simple test to see which combos taste good.
I tried this early, thinking the exact same thing. It never worked out quite how I expected, but it's still worth making the testers.
The 40-ish flavors I made testers of 9-ish months ago have mostly gone "bad" now, by the way. They all taste mostly of VG. My lady and I did blind taste testing of two-week-old testers and the original batch (no overlap in concentrates, though in retrospect that might have been instructive).
Amazing post! Bookmarked your Modest Monday sub for future reading.
Do you do tobacco mixes much? Didn't notice a prevalence of tobacco flavors in your "Unofficial list of beginner flavors".
My knowledge of tobaccos is very limited. I use FLV flue cured, TFA RY4 double, and INW vanilla for pipe.
All of these are amazing in my book. Very versatile and delicious, but if you want a more bold tobacco, I can't personally recommend anything. I would only be regurgitating my research.
Since I am now vaping INW vanilla for pipe with a hint INW garuda for extra smokiness I would like to know if you have any recipes to offer with vanilla for pipe. I quite like it as an ADV but I am willing to try sth more complex.
Since its pretty much just a vanilla version of ry4, I primarily stick it in anything ry4 can go in. Custards work really well. Anything dessert tobacco really.
As far as recipes go, go check out my Charlie Noble Sollers Pointe clone. I could see it working really well in place of ry4 double
All good! I was gonna say that a Modest Monday covering "how to tobacco blends" would be amazing but since that's not your thing it wouldn't make sense.
Regardless, learning a lot from you articles!
Thanks man! The Modest Monday posts are extremely helpful for me.
Based on the KISS paradigm, I've tried tonight some simple mix with FW Blood Orange and TFA Vanilla Cupcake.
Bloody Vanilla (Queenside inspired)
Ingredient|% :---|---: Blood Orange (FW)|6 Vanilla Cupcake (TPA)|6
Flavor total: 12%
Just simple two ingredients and after shake and first vape, it tasted like Five Pawn's Queenside. I think mine is creamier and it's still missing something missing to fully match the original (might be some very light supporting cinnamon taste).
But the blood orange combined with the vanilla cupcake gives me a delicious and more dry than sweet vape. Which is a variety I enjoy in vaping.
Might it be, that the original Queenside is also consisting of only two or three ingredients? KISS @ Five Pawn? ☺
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