So I just made my first order for some DIY liquid (since I made the jump to RBAs, I'm killing my juices fast as well as my wallet). I'm not overly hopeful about it though, I've bought home made liquid from two DIYers recently and I can absolutely feel the inferior quality to something I bought from a premium vendor. Like I had a bottle of 80%VG apple and it didn't wick properly, tastes cheap and just put me off. How on Earth will I make something as complex as say, Teleos 'the milk'? They juice is thick, wicks extremely well, has a unique profile (for me) and just tastes like quality.
Where do these companies get their concentrates? Do they add any additives that I should consider buying?
Some juice companies have flavor vendors make a specific flavor just for them, but it far more rare than you think.
If you want your juice to taste like anything from Teleos, start with 5% sucralose.
The difference in quality is either:
- A.) Your friends aren't very good mixers
- B.) It's all in your head
True dat. When you first get away from the juices loaded with sucralose you might think that your DIY juice is super light on flavor. Just stick it out for a few months then buy some "premium" juice to try out again and you will be amazed at how much better your DIY juices are compared to the crap out on the market.
There's a third consideration, R&D. Companies design flavors like it's their job (literally). Someone diy'ing an hour or two a week will have a harder time getting to a point that matches someone who devotes their time to developing a recipe, getting feedback from a large sample set, tweaking it, etc...
It's not impossible, by any means, and there are many DIYers that have a flair for quick and delicious recipe creation, but time developing a "good" recipe into a great one is a factor.
I completely agree with that in terms of better companies like BX Vapor, Adirondack, Charlie Noble, etc. I DIY for about 4 hours a day after work. If it's your job, you're easily doubling my experience.
However, these shit companies like One Hit Wonder, Cuttwood, etc are buying recipes from people like me and loading it with sugar.
> like One Hit Wonder, Cuttwood, etc are buying recipes from people like me and loading it with sugar.
Can't argue with that. Even when used moderately, I can't help but taste sucralose prominently if it's in a eliquid. The sad thing is, it sells well by a wide margin.
Interesting, but in terms of just quality, we have access to something just as good right? Ooft, I might just avoid adding that in, no wonder it was so sweet, is that what made the juice so thick?
You're right that they probably aren't good mixers, but I mean how can you mess up mixing some vg/pg and concentrate... how is it that that liquid had such a 'cheap' flavour to it. Budget concentrate? Hmm
Yea we really do have access to something just as good. I've made some juice that I could literally taste a specific flavor that I've tasted in a vendors premium juice. There are at least a few factors that could have given a cheap flavor, like steeping, age of concentrates used, not stored properly (in sunlight, hot room), and just as simple as mixer error. When I follow highly rated recipes I find from somewhere like e-liquid-recipes to a T, I always end up with something that tastes premium. Even when I freestyle and make something up, I usually end up with something good and more complex than the sucralose sweeeeeeet bs I get from premium companies.
Yup, you pretty much hit the nail on the head there.
Juice vendors are using the exact same supplies we are, it's just that they are loading their juice with sweeteners and blowing out your senses.
The DIY juice tastes cheap because you're used to tasting sugar with everything. In the culinary world, sugar is a great tool for brightening flavors and making them more appealing to your taste buds. It's no different in vaping, except for that "premium" juices are kind of the equivalent of fast food. You can buy better, master crafted food, but if you only ever eat triple whoppers with bacon, you may not be able to enjoy the full experience that is a well balanced 5 star French meal.
Also, I can't speak for the DIY'ers you bought your juice from, but they could have miscalculated the actual vg/pg ratio.
Also, in terms of concentrates, we not only are using the same stuff juice vendors are, but more, and better ones!! Inawara, Flavorah, Hangsen, Medicine Flower, and so on. These are more expensive brands that are hard to acquire in large enough quantities to keep up with demand.
It depends on so much.
Maybe they didn't shake their concentrates. Maybe the nic was bad. Maybe they fudged the recipe a bit and added too much PG. Maybe they mix by volume, which is pretty inconsistent. Maybe water got in the VG bottle.
There's so many variables. I've had great liquids from big vendors, and I've had shit liquid from big vendors. I don't buy DIY juice, but I've mixed some batches that tasted as "premium" as the big stuff. Look up the recipe for Rhodinite. It's incredibly delicous. So is Strawberry Shortcake Bar and Mustard Milk. Those taste better than a lot of "premium" juice.
I agree with vurve, its prob a combination of A and B.
I havent bought any commercial juice in about a year. Recently someone let me fill my tank with Unicorn Milk by Cuttwood. I was excited because that was my first love when I had quit cigs and started vaping. I thought it was the best juice ever, and spent a lot of time and money trying to duplicate it.
Well, I couldnt even finish that tank. Besides being too sweet, the flavor was just "muddled", off tasting and flat. Even most of what I dump down the drain now is better than that. There is def a learning curve as far as retraining your palate when you are used to copious amounts of sweeteners. And my premade coils last two or three times longer too.
If you find some well regarded recipes, and stick with it for a couple of weeks, I think you will come to feel this way.
Yes, so true. Since I have started mixing, I have established a baseline on taste based upon no adjuncts and tinkering with ratios. When I try juices I used to love.....so flipping sweet. The sucralose is right up front. Also, my juice stays clear. Some of the junk I used to put in there would literally turn dark brown/black after a few days. I like being in control of what goes in there, and ultimately, what goes in my lungs.
Funny you mention Unicorn Milk. I've heard they hype forever and have always been curious what it tastes like. My SIL was given a bottle and we tried it just last night for the 1st time. Both of us were like, Wth??? It was just as you described. Sooo glad we learned how to DIY. I've never had a store bought juice that I liked, hence why I learned how to diy within a couple of weeks of starting to vape. My SIL had already been making his own, and I had tried a friend of his diy juice caled Grape Ape, it was my ADV until I learned how to create a couple of my own recipes that I really like. Still trying to master his GA recipe, but am pretty darn close according my my SIL and Hubs, I'm not quite satisfied with it yet, but once I think I have it nailed, I def plan on sharing the recipe on here. ;)
I am very new to DIY and on day one I made 2 juices. One is ok I could vape it all day if I had to...lol The other is very good and better to me than the strawberry stuff I had tried to date that was considered premium. I think you will surprise yourself. Steeping makes a difference and the stuff you got from oher diyers may need steep for a week or three....
Was it just apple? You'll need to mix a few flavorings together to get something complex and satisfying for the most part. It's all going to be based on the recipe and how well it's developed. A lot of DIYers may not put in the time to really develop tasty recipes, but there are quite a few really tasty ones out there.
Once you taste some of the upscale recipes from well-known mixers, you can get an idea of how much more thoughtful and complex the DIY juice can be. It's also not loaded with sucralose so you can actually taste the flavors instead of just getting a sweet headache.
/u/Vurve made a good point though, there are definitely some companies out there that put out great juice. These are coming from people who work for a company, and are developing a flavor profile for 8+ hrs a day for weeks/months before it's ready to release to the public.
You'd be surprised how badly someone can mess up juices if they haven't spent a solid amount of time working on their recipes and think that just copying ELR recipes because they sound good will make delicious juices, so the "it isn't that hard" aspect of it isn't the act of mixing, it's the recipe creation side. I've been through 20+ iterations of a recipe trying to dial into my notes of what I wanted a flavor to be when I started, and I know folks here have gone through even more than that before scrapping it or getting it right.
Some companies in Europe make their e-juices trough pharmaceutical labs, and big chemical labs that have their how flavorist's with their own in house flavors, they do this with food, beverages, medicines etc. you just make a profile and they came with various samples of what you asked.