Per my agreement with /u/AWWsteve, I decided to try and tackle cloning Charlie Noble - Sollers Pointe. If you haven't tried the original, I recommend pressing the buy button on that link. It's a truly superb juice from a great company. I've kicked around several different iterations and versions of this, but this is my official V.1 release.
Sollers Pointe Clone|% ---|--- FW Butterscotch|4 CAP Vanilla Custard V.1|4 FA Merginue|1.5 TFA Banana Fosters|1.5 TFA RY4 Double|1
Charlie Noble's description of this juice is pretty damn spot on, so that provided me a pretty good starting point.
>Incredibly smooth and creamy with bursts of banana, vanilla, caramel, and a hint of tobacco
Tasting Notes
Butterscotch! There is definitely a lot of butterscotch in this recipe. Custard, banana, and ever so slight hint of RY4, and caramel. Detectable amounts of butric acid as well. A slight throat hit. Very creamy and diketone rich.
Recipe Development
Since none of these flavors are not all that uncommon, it should be pretty easy to see why I chose them all when looking at the flavor description.
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FW Butterscotch - This was a pretty easy decision. Out of the butterscotch flavors that I think this company have ready access to, this is the one that fits the profile in the recipe the best. It's rich, creamy, and very flavorful. I don't think they would be using anything like FLV or Hangsen, as most juice vendors don't.
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CAP Vanilla Custard v.1 - This flavor is pretty damn hard to miss in a recipe at these amounts. I'm fairly sure this creamy blend of diketones is the base for the juice.
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TFA RY4 - The original juice has a slight throat hit like I normally get from RY4, and the taste is just there. Nothing too assertively tobacco. Slightly caramelized and sweet. I want to try FA Soho as well, but in waiting for the flavor to show up.
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FA Meringue - I'm not as committed to this flavor being in the recipe. It does add a nice sweetness and richness for sure, which the recipe needs. I also choose it to add the butric acid, so I knew I would need somewhere between 1-2%. Well, I am assuming that this flavor has butric acid since I get a rancid cheese flavor anytime I go over 1.5%. Nonetheless, it fits the flavor profile I wad looking to get out of it.
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TFA Banana Foster - None of the other caramel or banana flavorings I had were doing the trick. FA caramel is just a tad too bold without enough sweetness. I threw out TFA caramel after learning it had fructose it in, but as I recall it testing, it seemed like it could have been a good choice. As for the banana, the original juice has a subtle but very realistic and fresh banana flavor. TFA banana cream was too pudding like, LA banana cream was too strong without enough freshness to it. TFA banana ripe it's just disgusting. I want to try FW banana though. It gets good reviews and seems like it could potentially work. I should have it tomorrow. Ultimately though, I landed on banana foster. It's got caramel, richness, and a nice authentic banana flavor. As soon as I tried it, it seemed to complete the base flavor profile. I think it will might need boosted up though, or might need to supplement more banana. It's not quite strong enough.
#Conclusion
My clone almost seems a bit too rich for what in trying to achieve, but I actually prefer it to the original at this point. There is definitely some work to be done still, but I think the base it solid at this point. If you have any suggestions for the banana, I would be highly appreciative.
Keep an eye out for my other clones, which will include BX Horchatatas, Ahlusion Coconut Boba Tea, and the final version of BX Watermelon Crack.
Charlie Noble here. Man, thank you so much! Soller's Pointe was actually the first liquid i made for what would become the Charlie Noble line, and it has a special place in my heart. Then i made Tripoli, which took over, and then Pistachio RY4, which took over from that. always felt a little bad that Soller's had gotten lost in the growth. it was my ADV for a good 6 months when we started the line.
now onto the recipe...i like your approach. it's definitely different from the production recipe, but i think this sounds like a really good banana bakery tobacco liquid. i may have to mix up a batch for myself! i will say that there is no butterscotch in the recipe, but i see how that note can be tasted by the combination of some of the ingredients. good work, and keep on mixing!
Ok, this is too cool. Thanks so much for chiming in. You've made my day.
Since there's no butterscotch, does that mean the other ingredients I listed are in it? 😃
And I have to say, I don't know a lot about different juice vendors, but Charlie Noble stands out as a truly premium company. Your quality and level of selection are amazing. Keep the dream alive for the rest of us in here!
nah, you made my day. soller's has a special place in my heart, so this was really neat to see.
i will say that you are pretty close, but i've got to keep some secrets. i will also disclose that i do not use any CAP V1 flavors, because we do have all of our liquids sent out for carbonyl/diketone/aldehyde testing. i think the production recipe is 'dryer', and a little more RY4ish, while your's will lean more bakery/dessert. which is not a bad thing.
You are spot on about mine. It's very rich and dessert like, while yours is exactly as you described.
Well thanks again for sharing a couple of your secrets, and I'm so thrilled to know this made your day. I've been very excited for this project ever since I was messaged about cloning this juice.
And I completely understand about not wanting to give away to much, plus that would take the fun out of this for me 😊
That's exactly what a business would say about a clone. 0.o
No, I always answer honestly about juicemaking. Learned that from u/bombies, it's a compliment if someone wants to try & replicate something I made. Obviously I'm not going to give the exact recipe, but I'll tell you if it's headed right or if it's way off. I really enjoy this sub, and want you guys to keep doing what you do.
Man I loved your flavors!
I've had quite a few bottles of Charlie's Custard before I got into DIY. It was just such a nice silky, smooth vanilla custard. Even back then there were so many custards that tried adding so many things to the flavor palate, I always appreciated how yours strayed to the basics, and really nailed vanilla and cream. I think I can still taste it if I close my eyes lol.
I've tried Tripoli and Blue Bay as well, and those too were fantastic blends!
Even without sales your prices were amazing for the quality of the juice and packaging. I loved that you guys used those fat, stubby bottles that definitely held more liquid than the regular sized glass bottles.
Great work :)
first off wanted to say your juice is a staple in my local shop, second do you care to comment on the "other" clones of your juice out there and how accurate they are to your production juices? Also sense this is reddit PB Cereal 6mg thanks for the chance.
I usually comment whenever I see the posts & discussions. I actually enjoy seeing them, it shows me that people like our liquids enough to put in a lot of work to make their own. It's really a compliment, & most other juicemakers that I know basically feel the same way [at least in private, lol.]
Are there specific "other" clones you are asking about? Wasn't sure why you used the quotation marks in there.
My man! Haven't had a moment to whip this up yet but it looks extremely promising. As I mentioned to you before, good call on the Bananas Foster. That is something that I never thought to try. I did try TFA and LA Banana Cream as well as Ripe Banana and I agree with you that TFA Banana Cream seemed to fit best out of those but the was still missing something. The only other flavors I've tried during my clone attempts are TFA Vanilla Swirl, TFA Caramel Orig, and Graham Cracker. I do have a couple banana flavors that I never tried in my clone attempts (INW Banana, FA Banana, FW Banana) as well as a new caramel and butterscotch (FA Caramel & FLV Butterscotch) that I use to see if it adds anything missing to the recipe.
The only thing with FLV and INW is that they are rarely used in commercial juice since they are more expensive and/or hard to acquire in large quantities and in a timely manner. This hurts their production rate, so they are more likely to deal with companies like CAP, TFA, and FW.
Also, crosstown_rebel is saying FA is not on their list either.
Well at least we know that there is no butterscotch and no V1 VC. I've never messed with V2 just because I'm not too concerned with diketones and have heard that V2 is just not up to par with V1 but I might have to order some now, plus it might fill in the missing notes that you mentioned from your current batch. As far as no butterscotch, do you think that caramel is used in place of butterscotch or do you think that the RY4 has enough caramel by itself?
Ok, so I started tossing the idea around in my head that the butyric acid I was tasting was coming from vanilla custard v.2, which this very well may confirm. This also means I can probably nix the meringue, or just lower it to keep the sweetness.
Taking butterscotch out means I can bump up banana foster to supplement that creamy caramel/butterscotch flavor I get from it, while also boosting the banana.
Sounds like I need a tad more ry4 as well.
I think v2 will be pretty damn close. Going to experiment with a few other ideas I have too.
They might just use marshmallow instead of meringue.. I know the guys at charlie noble and they aren't using FA... at least to my knowledge.
um...but i do use FA.
Then my knowledge be wrong!
lol, no worries. the opening of the NA distro center helped make it easier to use FA in larger scale production runs.
there are a few flavor houses that i love to use for small batch stuff, but they just can't fulfill my needs for full scale production. we usually bottle between 50 to 100 gallons of liquid a day. makes logistics tough, if they can't provide drums of flavoring on a regular schedule.
That's good to know. Thank you!
I'll see what I can find from the other vendors that might fit this profile
this turns out being some kind of sherlock holmes shit now.talking all the small bits of presumptive evidence and hints from mr.noble and putting them together in order to get the big puzzle done.keep it up vurve! awesome job
Man, I have to call bullshit on myself, lol. The 100 gallons was the single largest amount of production, and was for a new line launch. We were running 2 shifts then, bottling from 8am until midnight.
But yeah, we bottle around 200 gallons a week. Usually only bottle 4 days a week, but it's still pretty crazy. It's Charlie Noble for the majority of that, but we also manufacture some other things as well. We also fill a LOT of 60mLs and 120s. I mean, we retail 120s for $45ish & wholesale for a great price, so we usually have to use a gallon or two from the batches just for 120s.
We launched almost 2 years ago now, and I still remember the quantities of the first few runs. 1 liter of 0mg, 1 liter of 3, 2 of 6, 2 of 12, 1 of 18. Smallest batch we make now is usually 5 gallons. Never thought we would make it to this point, but it's amazing.
Damn, I remember when the only place I could buy Charlie Nobel was Vape Dojo and it was the only juice line they carried other than their house juices. It was the first "Premium" juice I thought actually deserved that title and price tag (which has always been more reasonable than anyone else). It's so cool to see how much you've grown as a company.
Looks good. To me, i taste a bit of either TFA turkish tobacoo or FW desert lama in the original as well.
And I'll be adding these to my next order as well.
> TFA banana ripe it's just disgusting.
This is so accurate. It tastes like marigolds smell, straight up nasty.
Holy moly. This sounds delish. Can't wait for the B-X clones.
I will still support B-X, but I want to try and make them myself for myself.
I feel you could totally nail Oculus from Archive! That's my atf apple pie. It's like oatmeal crusty warm cinnamon applay pie. Ita great. If I can end up convincing some to clone it, I'll probably trying in 4-6 months when I get better acclimated with mixing. 3rd day in and loving it!
If anyone would stumble on this page, like i was, surprised the recipe had been deleted. I happened to have saved it into an excel sheet:
4% Butterscotch, Flavour West (FW)
4% Vanilla Custard v1, Cappella (CAP)
1.5% Meringue, Flavour Art (FA).
1.5% Banana Foster, Perfumers Apprentice (TPA)
2% RY4 Double, Perfumers Apprentice (TPA)
It wasn't sollers point, but i liked it.