Put on your mad scientist hat and goggles, because today we are talking about cloning (e-juice)!
Now, personally, cloning ejuice isn't my favorite thing to do. It feels very laborious and when you are trying to clone a more complex juice, you are fairly certain to never get it 100% correct.
That said, there are some pretty major benefits to cloning:
- Allows you to gain a stronger and more intimate understanding of your flavors
- Teaches you to pick up on the subtle differences between similar flavors
- Learn new mixing styles and techniques
- Helps to refine your palette
#Prerequisites
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Understanding of flavor reviewing - I really wanted to say you must have a refined palette. However, to get started, you really just need an understanding of what you are looking for. This is why I posted my reviewing flavors and single batch testing Modest Mondays before this one. However, the better your palette, the better off you'll do. It just takes time and practice.
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A juice to clone - I highly suggest starting with something like VapeWild. They have lots of single and double flavored juices. Learn the process and adjustment techniques before you jump into cloning something like Bombies.
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Flavors - and a shit ton of them. Before I start to clone, I try to set aside a small amount of cash for more flavoring. Unless you already own every single flavor, chances are you will be missing something.
#Process
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The original juice - You are going to want to spend a great deal of time with the original juice, if you haven't already. You also need a good bit for after you have started attempted so you can constantly go back to the flavor. Get to know the juice very well. Write down everything. All your flavor notes. Compile a list of potential base, top note, and background flavors.
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Research - See if other people have already tried to clone the juice. See if the person who owns the company has an account on a DIY forum that will let you peak into their mixing style. Check what is working for them and what isn't.
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First Mix - There is no shame in using some one else's previous attempt as a launch board to get started, especially if they are already pretty close. Make sure you let it steep the appropriate amount of time. Using a good organization system for labeling everything to. Sometimes I will find a previous reiteration was closer than my most recent. You will want to be able to go back to that exact recipe. I use a label maker from WalMart and name them correspondingly in my recipe calculator.
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Notes - Your want to take notes on everything. Off flavors, what you think it right, what percentages need to go up and down. Does something seem like it's missing? What needs removed altogether. What do you potentially need. Everything.
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Tweaking - So, after assessing your notes, decide what changes need to be made. However, unless you are so far off that nothing is right, never change more than one thing at a time!!! I will repeat, never change more than one thing at a time! In true scientific method, you need to be able to isolate the changes. If you change 2 or 4 things at a time, you'll make it a lot harder on yourself. The less variables you have moving around, the easier time time you'll have deciding what needs changed in your future attempt. However, if more than I've thing does need changed, make several reiterations of that version. So instead of just having version 1, 2, 3, etc, I will have version 2.1, 2.2, 2.3, decide which is the closest or which changes worked the best, then I will make V3 to implement all the changes. This will take longer, but it will be more accurate and take less time in the long run as you learn the flavors and how they interact. This includes both adjusting percentages and flavors used.
#Conclusion
I have a lot more to say than this, and I will do back and fill in the gaps, but my lunch break is over.
Give cloning a shot. Mess up a whole bunch. It's a very infuriating process at times, but very rewarding when you complete a project.
To catch the rest of what I have to say, listen to the Beginner Blending podcast tonight at 9pm EST.
You can find all my previous Modest Monday posts I mentioned here over at /r/ModestMonday
Can't wait for the podcast I spend all week going f*** is it Monday yet that's so weird I used to hate Mondays great teaching post again brother keep up the good work
Sure makes my Mondays go by a lot faster when I spend the first four hours of the day trying to type these out on my phone.
I'll add a couple notes. Tasting is important. Not just how the vapor tastes, but the actual juice on your tongue. A few drops in some water is a decent way to do it. Sometimes doing it this way you'll taste an ingredient that isn't readily apparent in the vapor.
Smell. The actual smell of the juice will also be a big part in making a good clone. Sometimes this is easy. Sometimes there's one ingredient that smells so strong, but doesn't overtake the taste when vaping that smell might be hard to match. I'm looking at you Whit E Octopus Bavarian Cream and your Toasted Marshmallow.
Color is also hard. Steeping and oxidiation play a big part in the color of a juice. And you might be using a different nic vendor than the original juice, which can cause the color to be a different shade, or more reddish. One thing you want to try and not do is be darker than the original. Sometimes this isn't possible if you have old flavors that you're using.
For the actual flavors. Look at multiple manufacturers and multiple vendors. For a juice I'm trying to clone I need a couple different flavors, or at least I thought I did until I saw a review of a single flavor that looks like it's the missing ingredient I need. So, check ecx, bcv, gremlindiy, and the manufacturer's sites, tfa, capella, flavorart, flavorah, etc. And make a list of every possible ingredient you can think of that could be in the original. Even duplicates. Then search and see if someone else has mentioned this flavor at all, and see if it could fit.
Yup, you mentioned nearly everything I was going to add once I get back to a computer. And another thing is to consider if the juice maker has a preferred vendor.
This may not mean as much if you are trying to clone a juice from a better company who will use anything and worries more about getting the flavor right. However, trying to clone a VapeWild flavor for example, they probably aren't using FLV or INW. You'll be best sticking to CAP, TFA, FW, etc.
Palate*
>Flavors - and a shit ton of them. Before I start to clone, I try to set aside a small amount of cash for more flavoring. Unless you already own every single flavor, chances are you will be missing something.
Definitely this. Whenever I go to clone a flavor, I get my hands on basically everything I think could be in it. I wind up with a lot of other flavors that don't get used, but I'll wind up using them in other mixes eventually. It makes everything a hell of a lot easier when you don't have to wait on new flavors arriving, and sometimes you can get a close start by simply smelling the juice to be cloned and the flavors you have (doesn't always work as concentrations will throw off a scent, but it can get you close).
Is it common or even a thing at all that juice companies will commission totally novel aroma compounds? I swear some of my favorite juices have some serious wizardry going on in the bottle (looking at you Mad Hatter - I <3 Donuts). I'm more than willing to admit when I'm outclassed by expert mixologists but I'm curious if it actually happens that companies will literally create their own flavors.
Yup. That is totally a thing!
And to top it off, there are cases of companies using flavors from the major flavor companies that have yet to be released to the general public
On the topic of clones, has anyone tried wintergreen in placid? Think I'm gonna order some FW and TFA and try those.
I've thought for some time that there is a minty component in Placid. Please share your findings :)
I got some real for the first time in a while. It tastes greener and cooler than my clone. I tried koolada in the past but gave up on that just didn't taste right.
Awesome! I think this is going to be a really good episode. Hopefully it will set all the people who wants clones of juices up for success. That's probably the question I hear the most in DIY is "Is there a good clone for xyz juice?" Makes me want to work more on a clone myself!
Just my two cents - knowing your flavors is key. When guys from a juice company show up in our office with their new juice line I always test and name the ingredients that are in their juices. And it's really easy to name all the flavors that are used since it looks like most of my local companies use mostly TFA and CAP. There was this juice called 'Cookies&Milk' which as it turned out consisted only of TFA Vanilla Cupcake and RY4 Double.
Distinguishing flavors that you know is actually really easy when you know them well enough. The problem is though, while some people said that this Cookie juice tasted kinda like milky cookies, I could not taste anything but the two aromas used in it. That also happens with other juices, I can feel the flavors used in it individually but sometimes I can't taste that single whole composition that people around me can taste.
There's one thing about mixing that I had no idea was a thing when I started - it's actually pretty challenging mentally in a lot of ways.
> * A juice to clone - I highly suggest starting with something like VapeWild.
Ugh. I tried VapeWild once. Of the six flavors I tried, I liked exactly zero. I agree with starting with something simple to get experience cloning but wouldn't starting with something vapeable make the experience better? :P
I wasn't sure of what the "good" basic companies are. I switched to DIY pretty early.
By all means though, use whatever you want 😊
I don't know anymore either, next month will be two years since I started DIY and I've bought maybe a dozen e-liquids in that time. VapeWild was tried only because they were free, and I still think I paid too much. :P
I remember a time when Mt. Baker was the good, cheap vendor but they're pretty easy to clone for most flavors, or were. :)
VapeWild was my gateway to DIY, too. I actually found a few I liked in 2 6-piece samplers, but I couldn't help thinking; "I bet these could be better".
They still have the lock on a good, basic grape flavor. A little mild for my tastes, but, no dry floral/medicinal notes whatsoever, a thing I'm still trying to conquer.
So two quick questions here the first one how do I find out if a vendor has a DIY account?
The first question is a bit tricky. There's really no way to tell other than old fashioned detective work. Sometimes it's as simple as searching for their company name. Other times, it takes hours of research and asking around.
For the second question, the best I can do is show you the messages I have received and sent to you. PM'ed for that.
Holy s*** dude I knew something was up I did receive one of your replies although it does look like you received mine think this app has some fine-tuning that needs to be done I was sure when I didn't get a response from you I have inadvertently offended you somehow I'm going to send you a p.m. with my email maybe we can correspond on a slightly more reliable form
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