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What makes a mix a shake and vape and what makes a mix require steeping?
submitted over 9 years ago by Quest4ADV

I've been mixing since the fall and I've got a few decent mixes that I turn to since I've sworn off "premium" liquid. I'm struggling with whether or not some flavourings simply require time or if it's the combination of flavours that necessitate the steeping process. We all know Wayne's work (gospel) and some of his mixes require time and others don't, but all have a dimension of layering and nuance. So is it specific to the flavours or is the steeping requirement coming from certain combos? Thanks folks. Mix and rock on!

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25 points
 
by coop34over 9 years ago

Fruit flavors are made up of smaller molecules than creams, which in turn are made up of smaller molecules than custards and tobaccos. The larger molecules just need time to fully homogenize with the dilutents and each other. At least this is the oversimplified way that I understand it from all my reading.

5 points
 
by Bearwenover 9 years ago

Thanks for the simplified version.

3 points
 
by Paleone123over 9 years agoProud Sidebar Reader!

This is is correct from everything I've been able to find as well. Steeping seems to consist of a few components, first of which is homogenization. You can achieve this quickly with a commercial grade homogenizer, but this is apparently insufficient to "finish" juices containing those creams, custards and tobacco. /u/abdada is probably the definitive expert on the other component, at least in the DIY arena, but what recall reading sounded like a combination of volatiles breaking down, volatiles escaping solution, and volatiles combining with one another, no idea on the actual chemistry behind it though.

7 points
 
by abdadaover 9 years agoI will rip you a new one if you don't use the sidebar & search.

I wouldn't call myself an expert -- I'm an amateur like most of us here, I have just more time to spend researching and interviewing actual chemists and playing around than the average DIY mixer.

Shake and vapes work well because they generally don't have really heavy and really light volatiles. The heavier volatiles need time to homogenize, and the really light (harsh) volatiles need time to evaporate into headspace and escape.

There is also some possibility of compounds combining into new ones but it doesn't happen very often and rarely at room temperature.

7 points
 
by vapaioloover 9 years ago

I always wondered, though, does the percentage used to mix a flavoring with heavier volatiles affect the amount of time it takes to fully and properly homogenize (aka "steep").

I.e. a cream and custard heavy recipe will, no doubt, take considerable time to fully mature. But let's say the recipe only requires 1 or 2%...CAP Custard (for example). Is the steep time less because of the low %? Or does it not make a difference?

3 points
 
by Elturielover 9 years ago

This is extremely good information to know. Thanks a ton!

1 points
 
by Billtron3000over 9 years ago

cheers coop, that's a great way to put it

1 points
 
by Quest4ADVover 9 years ago

This is some deadly discussion in exactly the direct I was hoping. Thanks to all contributors and keen 'em coming. I'm sure I'm not the only one whose learned a lot here. You guys are great!!

1 points
 
by Jiggy_J_Rayover 9 years ago

Sucralose

1 points
 
by Quest4ADVover 9 years ago

I wonder if /u/Enyawreklaw would be willing to weigh in here? We all must learn :)

0 points
 
by nvausover 9 years ago

My theory for steeping is the same theory I have for why juices lose flavor over enough time. I believe the lighter flavor oils have no trouble absorbing into the plastic bottles and evaporating on the outside surface. These volatiles also would be the components of a juice with the lowest boiling point, so when a coil heats a juice a disproportionate amount of the light oils vaporize compared to the rest of the flavor. After some time steeping the juice, most of the especially volatile compounds have had time to escape and the flavor comes into balance.

In addition to this, there may be a variety of chemical reactions that occur between certain flavor ingredients. Heat accelerates chemical reactions, so mixing flavors and throwing them right onto a coil before the reactions occur within the liquid would give you a direct taste of the unintentional byproducts. Given time to steep the reactions would occur more slowly and give the byproducts a chance to evaporate or settle out.

Whatever anyone says it's all guesswork until someone actually gets a variety of liquids into a lab and does an in depth analysis. Even then the process is likely to vary from one mix to the next.

1 points
 
by GreatBigPigover 9 years ago

> I believe the lighter flavor oils have no trouble absorbing into the plastic bottles and evaporating on the outside surface.

Any tests with glass bottles?

1 points
 
by nvausover 9 years ago

I have not, but that would be a way to confirm or deny. Assuming the lid of the bottle is also impermeable.

1 points
 
by GreatBigPigover 9 years ago

I don't think the liquid would touch the lid or cap.

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