Title says it all. I'm a homebrewer too, so I have a supply of CO2 around. Looking at argon prices... ouch (at least on Amazon). I also don't figure I'm going to like making 30ml at a time, so would you use the same thing on 120ml batches?
Thanks ahead!
Well, until a chemist or /u/abdada show up, her is a promising quote from Carolina Xtract's website
>Air contact immediately begins the oxidation of nicotine similar to the way an apple will darken before your eyes in just minutes. The cellular wall of the tobacco plant protects nicotine from oxidation in an amazing way. CXTC's SFE process cracks open that cellular wall in an oxygen free environment using highly pressurized CO2 and prevents all oxygen contact throughout filtration and packaging.
From the same page:
- Food/Medical -Grade CO2- Long term exposure to CO2 will impart a "golden" tint to all brands of nicotine. CO2 is an excellent choice of push gas when the cylinder will be completely pushed out with twenty days as long as you keep that cylinder around 70F (room temperature) and release the tank pressure after each use. Beware! CO2 can carbonate the VG and PG in a 100MG nicotine solution, especially if store your tank at cold temperatures and under pressure.
Well, here's our answer /u/matt_rhorn. If I had just read the next paragraph, we would have had the answer. Thank you tet5uo.
While CO^2 is inert and will keep your nic from oxidizing, it will carbonate your nic. Probably not for the best.
The paragraph in full
>CXTC mentions that different "push gases" have different affects on Nicotine. What "push gas" should we use?
>1. 5.0 Argon- Argon does not seem to react with anything including nicotine. Argon is the preferred storage gas for all nicotine products, because it will not change any of the properties of Nicotine out to many years. Argon is quite expensive, as a push gas because it does not compress to liquid and commercially available Argon cylinders do not "pump" much product. If you need to store liquid nicotine for extended periods, argon is best. If you need to move nicotine, other gasses work just as well and go much further at much less cost.
>2. Nitrogen-Nitrogen is interesting because it is a cost effective "push gas" with interesting side-reactions to nicotine. The primary long term reaction is that nitrogen will impart clarity to 100MG/ML nicotine, a positive, and with time will impart a pink hue, possibly a negative. The color change seems to occur mainly in the VG component of the solution, however CXTC has noted certain positive changes to the nicotine properties under long term exposure to nitrogen.
>3. Food/Medical -Grade CO2- Long term exposure to CO2 will impart a "golden" tint to all brands of nicotine. CO2 is an excellent choice of push gas when the cylinder will be completely pushed out with twenty days as long as you keep that cylinder around 70F (room temperature) and release the tank pressure after each use. Beware! CO2 can carbonate the VG and PG in a 100MG nicotine solution, especially if store your tank at cold temperatures and under pressure.
Looks like argon is still the best choice, unless you don't mind nitrogen turning the VG pink. Now I'm curious what this means if you use 100% PG nicotine.
Unless your storing your solutions over pressurized CO2, carbonation isn't going to be a problem. And even if you are carbonating it a tiny tiny bit,you wont notice it. It certainly won't effect your vape (because you'd be vaporizing any negligible amount off anyway)
It won't be under pressure, so i don't think it will carbonate - or at least that's my assumption. Since it's just filling the head space. once it's in the freezer it should put a slight vacuum in the bottle. I guess I'll post about it in 6 months or so when I start breaking back into the bulk of it. I have some 30ml bottle's I'm going to fill as well, and a 15 that will be out (I'll probably hit it with CO2 between uses). Unless I see any other major detractors on here. Nic will get here Monday. I bought some 100mg/ml from vaperstek. I haven't ordered in any flavors yet, but I'm sifting through the recipes on the side bar now.
> Beware! CO2 can carbonate the VG and PG in a 100MG nicotine solution, especially if store your tank at cold temperatures and under pressure.
The question I'm always interested in having answered in order to know if this matters is: Which amounts? After all both propylene carbonate and glycerol 1,2-carbonate don't seem to have any considerable toxicity.
> Nitrogen-Nitrogen is interesting because it is a cost effective "push gas" with interesting side-reactions to nicotine. The primary long term reaction is that nitrogen will impart clarity to 100MG/ML nicotine, a positive, and with time will impart a pink hue, possibly a negative.
In chemistry colors sometimes don't have much of a meaning. Some compounds are really strong colorants at extremely low concentrations. I tried to find any scientific literature source for this claim or anything related, but found nothing. I'm very curious, because I've never heard of any organic reaction utilizing dinitrogen as a reactant without a metal being involved (high temperature reactions excluded). To my knowlegde this is still an unsolved problem in chemistry, because dinitrogen is so inert.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nitrogen#Reactions
or
http://scholar.google.com/
May I ask what a push gas is and how to store nicotine in said gas?
Push gas refers to the pump system that CXTC uses for their special sealed containers. You pump inert gas into it and it pushes out the nicotine.
For his use, he's just going to be using the fact that it's heavier than air to pour some into the headspace of his bottles to replace the air in them with inert gas for long-term storage.
Well, I searched and googled, nothing came up for me. This has my thumbs up for approval as a valid post.
I am also very curious. I used to homebrew and CO2 is indeed a lot cheaper than argon.
I didn't actually google (I'm weird about forgetting things) but I did search this sub. I found someone referencing getting it from pop (shaking a bottle and 'pouring' the CO2 in). The only reply was to buy argon. CO2 is heavy, and I purge my kegs to minimize oxygen contact (then I fill through the dip tube) if I had the gear I'd put .25 to .5 psi into my carboy too. My buddy does that with his conicals. He's a little anal too though.
> The atomic mass of CO^2 is 44.01 g/mol. The atomic mass of argon is 39.948 g/mol. > However, the atomic weight of air is 28.966 g/mol.
Referencing my response to my own post, as long as CO^2 is found to be inert and non-reactive with nicotine, I say go for it. CO^2 is much cheaper and easier to find a dispersion system with the advent of homebrewing.
I store my 100mg/ml PG nicotine in the freezer in smaller 60ml bottles. I use a wine preserver, which says its a mix of nitrogen, argon, and CO2. I have noticed that its perfectly clear when I pull it from the freezer, but rapidly (like a week) turns a golden amber color. Taste and smell seem unchanged. It's been in the freezer now for a year.
PRESSSURE.
CO2 at room temperature has a much higher vapor pressure than atmospheric air - would float away and exit a vapor permeable bottle. Argon is chosen because if its chemical properties - it is heavier than air - will for a blanket over solution and stay put :)
As far as I know at ambient pressure the pressure of pure CO2 gas is the ambient pressure as well.
"Vapor pressure or equilibrium vapor pressure is defined as the pressure exerted by a vapor in thermodynamic equilibrium with its condensed phases (solid or liquid) at a given temperature in a closed system. The equilibrium vapor pressure is an indication of a liquid's evaporation rate. It relates to the tendency of particles to escape from the liquid (or a solid). A substance with a high vapor pressure at normal temperatures is often referred to as volatile. The pressure exhibited by vapor present above a liquid surface is known as vapor pressure. As the temperature of a liquid increases, the kinetic energy of its molecules also increases. As the kinetic energy of the molecules increases, the number of molecules transitioning into a vapor also increases, thereby increasing the vapor pressure." Source: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vapor_pressure
Gaseous CO2 above another liquid is not what is meant here. It's about the equilibrium of a compound between it's own gaseous and condensed phase. We don't have liquid or solid CO2 in our case.
Diffusion through permeable membranes is another issue, presumably it goes easier the smaller the gas atoms or molecules are.
EDIT: "Permeability, Diffusivity, and Solubility of Gas and Solute Through Polymers"
https://www.researchgate.net/file.PostFileLoader.html?id=56a659cf6225ff07d38b45c1&assetKey=AS%3A321833709047808%401453742543069
What would boron do?
Boron?
Probably float around in the nic solution, likely reacting with it.