I figured Rdas/tanks need to be bought now along with nicotine and maybe some reliable mods, I am sure the mod scene won't die but it'll probably cost more and be less reliable than buying something from a reputable company.
My assumptions out of the way, What the fuck should I be buying and what should I actually be stock piling and what should I be able to buy later? If I wait any longer I know I am screwing myself, I know a bunch of people were preparing already, I Should have listened.
Nothing.
The first lawsuits will be filed this month.
The FDA can't do anything for 2 years, minimum. Bureaucracy will add another year to that.
Lawsuits may add 10 years.
This is the correct answer (thanks again AB as always). As Douglas Adams wrote: Don't Panic.
This BS has to go through MULTIPLE court challenges to survive. Do you think Swisher is going to let "no flavor-infused cigars" survive without throwing the best lawyers in the country at it? I'm guessing implementation of whatever survives litigation is going to be at least 5 years in the future.
In the worst case, if all this were to be implemented tomorrow, I think the only "stockpile worthy" item might be pure nic, and possibly tanks/RDAs/RBAs etc. "Battery boxes" are just that (plus pretty easy to build); flavored PG/VG blends are not affected; wire, wick and supplies are all easily repurposed.
Bottom line: don't freak out yet. If the defecation hits the ventilation there will be lots of time to stock up on all the goodies you love.
> If the defecation hits the ventilation
TFA still selling cheesecake, eh?
Too funny... But seriously, thanks /u/kirkt for stemming the tide of panic -- we've got a lot on our hands now, but this wasn't unexpected, and we will fight it tooth and nail to prevent its enforcement as-is. Though battling it out with tobacco companies at our side seems rather distasteful to me, I'll take their millions in blood money if it mens stickin' it to the FDA.
Newbie kid at the DIY aspects of this, have been vaping for a little under one year. Smoked for 10 years before that. Don't want to go back. Too social (drinks! cafes! friends!) to reliably say I'll simply quit and not return to my hand-rolled.
Just want to say, your post was pure, welcome clarity. Have to admit I've been spending the past few hours quietly panicking and investigating.
Have always wanted to roll my own juices because I want to. Not because I'm under the gun. Now I can feel a bit more confident to give it the time, attention and perspective it deserves.
(And, really kewl Sub you've got here. Amazing resources and really supportive vibe. Kudos!)
Thanks again!
What concerns me now is what the states will do with this. Effects on insurance (life and health). Vendor e-commerce clearinghouses (e.g. Shopify), interstate shipping. This could be a real PIA.
For example, my Segelei mod, could go from $50 to $78 (56% fed tax on cigarettes) because now, somehow, my electronic device^^P.E.N.I.S. is a tobacco product. And here I thought it was metal, plastic, silicon, and glass. And then the states will jump on to get there share. Worse, maybe it can't be shipped, because tobacco product you know, and I'll have to buy it at the nearest B&M at 4x the price (cause they need to cover costs of course).
I hope to shit I'm wrong. I hope the lawsuits happen. I hope our useless congress does something ^^^unlikely
It doesn't hurt to prepare, tho - unless every manufacturer runs out of nicotine before i place my order, lol. I need a loan for a barrel from CXTC.
oh I am sure wizardlabs and everyone else is working 24/7. The amount of money they will make from panic buyers lol
I'll sit back and wait. 1 liter of 100mg will make me 10 gallons of 3mg juice :D
That's 1100, 30ml bottles. My wife and I vape about 120ml a week. We will be fine will 2 liters and then we will cut down to 1.5mg and then 0mg
Won't happen. In 6 months, the FDA will be tied up in multimillion dollar lawsuits and President Hillary will demand they make changes before the Justice Department files bankruptcy.
These regulation threats are all part of the election cycle.
You assume of course that the vaping industry will get off its ass, form an organization that everyone is actually part of, and require sufficient membership fees to afford million dollar law suits. Up til now advocacy, of the verbal and monetary kind, has been pathetic. Not to mention big tobacco basically runs the FDA, they want it this way to prevent the only real competition they've ever had
They can't regulate nic in the raw, because it's considered 'loose' nicotine. Guess what else is considered loose nicotine? Cigarettes. They might try and regulate it by strength, but you can always order from an offshore website. Nic will be fine, and so will all of us.
According to http://vapenewsmagazine.com :
"On Twitter this morning, AVA President Greg Conley noted that the regulations effectively freeze the market to new products 90 days after they are published. Any product moving forward that is not already on shelves, would have to go through theprocess immediately, as opposed to being allowed two years for compliance."
Any ideas on the accuracy of this statement?
Edit: Also to add to this they are saying Zero NIC products fall under the same regs...
Court challenges and all that legality stuff aside... You're still going to be able to get all the components you need to do what you do, no matter how soon this is implemented. Mods and RDAs parts are going to be laughably easy to import from China regardless, nicotine isn't a controlled substance, PG/VG is in everything, flavorings will still be widely available, etc...
So the worst result of all of this as far as /r/DIY_ejuice is concerned is... we won't have recipes of popular juice flavors to clone. We're just gonna have to come up with our own names.
A lot of us order our devices from China. I don't see that changing. In fact, I see Fasttech becoming even more of a shit fest. America can't regulate China. I wonder what the import restrictions are...
The fact is, even if some sort of ban is implemented it will force vaping into organized crime, which is a whole new ball game for the government to deal with, along side losing the tax money from the product that will now be bootlegged. The problem for them is, all the ingredients and components used to make ejuice, mods, tanks, cotton, wire, etc are all readily available and cannot be banned cause they are used in many different applications and industries. Banning/overly regulating vaping will cause tons of drama and media coverage and possibly cause riots.
Even if they do get their way and fully ban all vape related stuff. People will still be making mods and ejuice at home regardless.
Yep, plenty of new ways to market our ingredients. It wasn't the vendors intent that we should so happen to mix them into eJuice.
Nicotine solutions: Organic pesticides
VG & PG: Cosmetic dilutions
Flavor concentrates: Self explanatory
edit: 3 years and I still can't format shit right
You can make nicotine from raw tobacco , no need to buy nicotine sulfate and do crazy meth lab shit to deadly ass nicotine sulfate, ECR has some threads on it
You cant stop an OKR T/10 or Raptor Box Mod. These will be around for ever. I would look up how to make one of these and you'll be set for life.
I am stocking up on 510 connectors and will build my way to the future!
0mg juice from now on :D
Edit: Here is diagram http://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0608/6153/products/NEW_OKR_Wiring_Diagram_1024x1024.png?v=1415937971
I only have two hands, dude. How is anyone supposed to hold all those pieces and vape at the same time?
So we'll get the literal ejuice mafia.
Well, it's not like their customer service could be worse, right?
Well i'm not convinced you need mods unless you're totally a klutz , back when regulated stuff first came out lots of people made their own and it isn't terribly difficult.
Also I think flavors will be fine - we originally used candy and soda flavoring and that stuff will still be available.
Nicotine is our achilles heel - I haven't heard anything about legislating it directly but its easily under the purview of "tobacco product"
I think we're good on pg and vg (wont dissapear) and good luck on them trying to get batteries under control.
So i'd say realistically? nicotine.
But I stocked up on all of the above because i'm paranoid and have plenty of credit LOL
Didn't liquid nicotine exist before 2007?
Nothing will happen to nicotine considering its already regulated to an extent and its used as a pesticide So if you DIY you are fine. now when the nicotine is combined with flavorings and pg/vg it becomes a tobacco product so shops are going to have a tough time. Nicotine wont go away at all.
The fact that it can be used as a pesticide doesn't prevent them from criminalizing it for vaping. Lots of things that have other uses are prohibited. Running a truck on heating oil is illegal. Hemp has many uses, but if you burn it they'll put you in a cell. Metal has a billion uses, but it's illegal to form it into a rocket launcher, etc.
The question is whether it's more profitable for them to ban it or not - if it is, they will. Common sense or legal fairness has nothing to do with it.
If you want to stock up only thing I would buy is Nic I doubt the FDA is going to ban the sale of Nic over the internet but state-by-state just depends on where you're at
Yeh - I didn't even see an outright nicotine ban in the original 2014 regulations but its really our achilles heel, the pg and vg have other uses, you can make a box mod, the flavorings we used originally were just from candy and sweets companies so even the new companies that popped up can sell them to us for that use, but if they really wanted to ride our asses and make a stink the nicotine would be the keystone.
Here's what I got stocked up. Maybe someone can tell me if what I got is sufficient and it'll be useful to you as well.
I got a couple SMPL mod clones. They're cheap and I figure the simple design would mean that the mods last a long time, barring corrosion. The springs in the buttons could be replaced easily enough. I doubt 18650 batteries will come under regulation.
I got too many RDAs to count, if one breaks then I got a bunch more. I'm guessing cotton and wire won't be affected.
Ejuice: I got a bottle of 100mg/ml 100% PG in the freezer. If that oxidizes or goes bad I got at least 5 LB of pipe tobacco I got stocked up from my pipe tobacco hobby. I figure I could extract nicotine from that.