A few months ago, local customer of mine was moving away so he asked for some recipes to recreate some ADVs. I sent him an email with those recipes and instructions and he bought ingredients, mixed them up and complained that they were nothing like my mixes.
I had him mail me some samples and he was right: way off. We video chatted and he mixed a recipe up and I told him it was perfect. Weeks of steeping and the results: tastes wrong.
I mailed him some bottles to see if it's vaper's tongue but the ones I sent were spot on he said.
So we went over all the mixing mistakes and couldn't figure out what the issue is. There's no possible way every recipe turned out foul, there were no common ingredients between any of them.
This morning as I was mixing myself, I realized I forgot to ask how well he mixed his concentrates before dispensing. His response? "Why would I shake them, they're fine!"
I told him to snag a concentrate, smell it, then shake it for as long as possible and smell it again. Result? "This smells so much better"
This is especially true of non-PG concentrates. Letting a concentrate sit can mean the solution can separate. Cinnamon flavors often have a layer of cinnamon oil at the top -- if you drop the flavor into a mix, you might get all cinnamon oil and little else. Shake the bastard up.
If you use VG carried concentrates, the top portion might be only a tiny percent of the volatiles in the entire bottle. Warm it up with your hand, then shake it until your arm tires out.
Even PG concentrates can settle a bit and separate. You can't eyeball this. Some of Nature's Flavors concentrates separate enough to eyeball.
#If you don't shake your concentrates before dispensing, don't ask why your mixes taste off or unflavored or underflavored.
It isn't just newbs who sometimes ignore this step. Premium vendors who mix on-demand have forgotten to shake before dispensing, and they've had to remix and ship new orders because of it.
a good rule of thumb for DIY mixing. Just fucking shake everything.
Except beers.
I'll take "Why does my 100% VG nicotine seem harsh" for $300.
Also, this should be posted in the new mixers thread. :S
I mean okay this isn't the new mixer's thread but since you're here, you are supposed to shake nicotine?
I shake new unopened bottles of nicotine for about half an hour. Then I open the bottles and dispense my 500ml into about 24 smaller bottles. Then I top off the bottles with VG to dilute my nic down to much lower nic potency. I shake those up a bunch and stick them in a small fridge dedicated to mixing ($50 on Craigslist). Usually I spray argon into the top just to remove air from the containers before sealing them up.
When I need nic, I pull one container out and let it come to room temp, mix vigorously and dispense as needed.
I have bottles of nic well over a year old that still taste perfect. Probably will last ten years.
Okay, so I'm doing some of that right, that's good.
More questions though! I can cross post to the new mixer thread if this is the improper place. Hope it's fine here. Just say the word.
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I have 100% PG nic at 100mg/mL. Is there an advantage to diluting it with VG, like making it less harsh?
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Do I need argon? Does it have a large impact on the longevity of the nicotine?
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I've been told amber glass dropper bottles are good for nic storage; is this true, and should they be in the fridge instead of the freezer? My vial of nic said to store at -20°C so I went with the freezer.
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Is the condensation that would probably form on the outside of thawing nicotine bottles dangerous in any way? Stupid yes, but I'm curious.
Only old mixers visit that thread. Duh. It's where we share DIY secrets since no newb would ever visit it.
I'm going to mix some recipes today without shaking, just to see how different they turn out. I'm curious now.
Would mixing without shaking basically ruin the whole bottle? That's been my belief so I've never forgotten to shake!
Ruin? Probably not. But if you have a 30ml bottle of concentrate and pour out 1.5ml (5%) to mix a 30ml eliquid and forget to shake, you very well could be pouring out too much of some volatiles and not enough of others. That could ruin a concentrate. Certainly.
My vanilla blend concentrate I make myself requires mixing and shaking vigorously before dispensing or you WILL ruin it in one heavy pour.
I feel like that would fuck up the whole bottle of concentrate. Taking only the lighter molecules and leaving the heavier ones at the bottom thus throwing the whole balance of the flavor off. Unless you're using dropper bottles in which case you'd mix it at least a little when you turn it upside down. Either way you'd never get consistent results. I'll just keep shaking everything and then shake it again just to be sure.
It likely WILL ruin the whole bottle, and now I wonder how many people who complain about horrible recipes are ones who just destroyed their concentrates early on and keep using bad ones.
80% of my DIY time involves shaking -- and I have some pro-tools to help the process along! I still shake 80% of my DIY lab time.
Solid advice! Best example of this I've seen is FA Cocoa. In a mere day it's evenly split in two. The top half of the bottle is very dark brown and the bottom a very light shade of brown, clear as day. It's so blatantly obvious due to the difference in color but makes you realize this probably happens to all concentrates to some degree, you just can't see it. I shake everything now, every time I pick a bottle up, to the point where I shake my PG out of sheer habit. Not a lot, I just give everything I use a couple of shakes before opening the bottle.
Darker concentrates are way easier to eyeball for sure. Try putting a small fluorescent light behind a concentrate and sometimes it helps to see separation (but not always).
Remember that some volatiles are in the concentrate at as little as 0.03% so if those fall out of solution, forget about eyeballing it. All it takes is overnight for some of my concentrates to separate.
Might as well demonstrate what I mean :)
I shook the one on the left, the rest are full. Don't look at the date of expiry :P
Yea, it's a good habit to shake everything before use, for sure.
I think the extra shaking can increase oxidation, so for extra longevity, you should do this in a room devoid of oxygen, and after opening up the bottle to breathe for a while.
Can vouch for the cinnamon thing. Just mixed up a batch of vicious vanilla. It's all cinnamon, no vanilla. Look at the bottles... Damn if there isn't a visible layer of something on top of the cap cinnamon bun. Lesson learned.
>vendors who mix on-demand have forgotten to shake before dispensing, and they've had to remix and ship new orders because of it.
But my hands get tired shaking so many damn bottles every day.
I'm releasing a new app called UberDIYShaker -- if you ever need help, just load the app, click "I need a shaker" and in 2-3 minutes an independent contractor will arrive at your door to shake any non-appendage you need shaken.
Now accepting applications at our B&M for a bottle shaker position. Get in on the bottom floor! /s
On a serious note do the vortex shakers mix 100% pg concentrates well? If we could use one of those it would save time and my wrists. As it stands I'm pulling amber vials of concentrate (from larger batches that are shaken before being divvied up so I'm not worried here), shaking, uncapping, and then filling bottles. You can imagine doing this hundreds of times a day my wrists will hurt.
I have 2 vortex shakers and they help but nothing is as good as a fist shake, IMHO. PG concentrates don't settle as much as VG ones do, but they all do separate and settle eventually.
I love my vortex shakers but their life expectancy sucks. I am working with a 3D designer locally to design an open source shaker with 3D printable parts for the shake path but it's coming along really slowly since I can't afford to pay him much for the time.
Very good PSA A.B.Dada
Not to be confused with the doctor's anal fingering technique.
Great post. Related question: is there any reason to shake pure PG or VG prior to mixing? I would guess not, but I figure you or another mixer here probably knows with more certainty.
Doesn't hurt to mix VG before pouring. VG tends to attract water in the air so it is feasible that the top later of VG might have a slightly higher water content.
Unlikely but possible.
PG is also hygroscopic but I believe less so than VG.
I'd suggest shaking steeped bottles, too. I've seen separation in the droppers of glass bottles after they've steeped a little while. Squeeze the dropper while still in the bottle and pay attention to the visible streaks of vg/pg/flavor emerging from the tip.
thx abdaba, believe it or not, Ive NEVER shaken the aromas before using them (damn) and btw thats precisely the problem I have, my mixes taste muted...