Is it just me or are none of the DIY kits worth a damn? They almost universally rely on measuring by volume and/or only include that vendors flavors (looking at you Liquid Barn). I really wish there were a solid beginner kit that I could point friends or any beginner looking at getting into mixing.
I feel like the biggest barrier to getting into mixing is the amount of research required, even using this sub. I remember reading for hours, finding recipes that sounded decent, and then ordering shit from maybe 4 or 5 different websites due to inventory/general pricing reasons. My guess is that a lot of us see this as a hobby, and over time we get experienced enough and build a solid flavor library that we can mix fairly fast and are able to mix new recipes that people post.
I know it seems to be the cool thing to do these days, and /u/vurve has posted a couple of really informative beginner posts in the last week or so. But, I feel like getting the itch to write a post or two with a bit of a different spin on how to get a beginner into mixing.
The focus for me is figuring out a balance of putting together a shopping list of parts for under $100 that would give somebody everything they need to mix about a dozen 30mL bottles using 3-5 popular recipes. That price would be all inclusive: nicotine, VG, PG, empty bottles, protective gloves, flavors, and most importantly the scale.
Does anybody know if this "perfect" kit already exists and I just haven't found it? I did see a post /u/Botboy141 made almost a year ago with a pretty similar idea but seem like he abandoned it for whatever reason.
I just think there would be a lot of value being able to present people with a really easy option. If you would buy 12 30mL bottles at $15 a pop (and plenty of people pay $20 or more) it would cost $180. Even if you are only able to mix 6 bottles of juice that would be $90 retail. You could show people how they could immediately break even moving to DIY but the only big purchase of the scale is already taken care of.
update
Scale - LB-501 - $23
Gloves - $7.42
Safety Goggles - $2.76
Nicotine - 30mL @ 100mg/ML - $7.99
VG - 250mL - $5.29
PG - 120mL - $2.98
Bottles - 30mL x10 - 3.90
That should be everything except for flavorings, right? Mixed at 30PG/70VG this would get you 300mL of juice. We are sitting around $60 if I assume free shipping on Amazon and flat rate shipping on eCigExpress is usually only $6 or $7. So with another $20 to spend on either flavorings or a couple of concentrates from Gremlin or botboy it looks like you could mix TEN full bottles for ~$80 and still have a few ingredients to spare. Compared to spending $20 a bottle a new mixer will have saved money by the fifth bottle.
An alternative could be to get the nic, VG/PG, and some bottles from Liquid Barn. You end up with significantly more nicotine at 120mL, a little bit more pg or vg, and 60mL bottles instead of 30 and add about $10 to the total price tag. Better overall value but potentially less convenient with 60ml bottles and having excess nicotine might not get used.
I'm not brain farting and missing anything crucial am I?
I've already sent an all inclusive shopping list to several people. You can make it work for $100, but most people tell me they ended up spending close to $150-$200 once they added all the flavors they decided they wanted and got a higher volume of nicotine.
I'll include it in my next post. Paint in black and white since most people still have some trouble with it.
Can't you see that your information is still not enough for people? You should probably just start compiling shopping carts for everyone.
No longer DIY, now it's LVDI_Ejuice. Let Vurve Do It.
Maybe I should just start linking them to my webpage where I sell them a complete beginners kit and profit.
If you wanna send it to one more. Cough cough. Please and thanks. I was just about to order some shit but didn't really know where to start and know I'd forget something.
So, I have yet to mix one bottle, but my DIY kit is on the way. Ordered the heartland vape kit ( recommended by the sidebar sticky).
My experience was almost the over-abundance of information on this sub. I wanted to get a real grasp for what it took to mix and having read everything I could, I felt that was the closest thing to what I needed according to experiences I read about.
The problem was, everyone has a different preference on how to mix. Weight/Volume and the pros and cons of both. It was a little overwhelming but good points were taken from both perspectives. Either way, I'm excited to get started and hopefully contribute to the community in the days to come.
I guess we all have to find our personal preference of mixing and master it. Whether it's right or wrong, as long as we stay safe.
But the thing is, the people who are saying to mix by volume never tried mixing by weight
I think I'm of two minds on this subject :)
A) This sounds like a great idea for beginners. Makes it easier. Here's 12 recipes (tried and true), choose 3 or 4 you like, here's the required flavourings, the PG, VG, Nicotine, Scale, Gloves, Bottles, Pipettes and voila, you're done! BUT, who is selling this? The scale that's recommended the most, is cheapest on Amazon, the gloves too, the bottles...etc., so unless a company is going to package all this together, its still going to mean ordering from a few different places. But its a great idea, IF someone wants to actually market it and sell it :) There will always be a market for "easier" DIY, in anything, not just juice making. The research is often what prohibits people from even trying any type of DIY. So if marketing to that group, then it should/could work. But then you need to make money if that's what your going to do, so mark ups come in to play. Then someone realizes they could have bought the scale for 22 instead of 28. And the flavourings for 1.49 instead of 1.75. Or 4.59 instead of 5.29. So the way I see it is the only folks who could actually do this effectively (and make money at it) are those already stocking the flavourings, who would have to add the pipettes, scale, gloves etc to their offerings. They already have the stock of flavourings etc. Or, someone needs to start up a brand new, one stop shop, DIY company :) OR the other option, the way some are doing it; premixed recipes, just add nic and vg/pg. Those types of companies/people could also have an offering of a complete "kit", scale, gloves, bottles etc if they wanted to. To many, that's satisfying and considered "mixing" their own juice.
B) What did you learn really though by having this all decided for you. I get that making it easier is the goal but there almost comes a point that too easy is defeating the purpose somehow. I hear you about spending hours reading; the research can seem overwhelming for sure, for some (or many). I know I wound up spending literally weeks researching here when I flippantly thought: oh I can make my own :) BUT, I think I learned a bit even before I ever placed my first order. I have pages of notes on flavours; I had started what I thought was a simple "flavours I want" list and then I kept adding to it, and crossing some off, all with notes beside each flavouring, culled from everyone's comments here. That "list" is now a fabulous resource for me. I go back to it all the time, because it contains info I can use. So before I ever ordered I knew, for example, FA Vanilla was weak (and subsequently didn't order it) , INW Rhubarb was strong etc. By the time I ordered I knew I needed a number of strawberries to make "strawberry" right, or that FW Blood Orange is not bold but tastes the most like a juicy orange. I don't think those things can be learned if you aren't doing the research. Does it make it easier? No. Does it make me a mixer? No. But it made me a least learn a bit and respect that my knowledge is zero and my skills are zero and I just have to be patient and learn. From others, from myself, etc. But I think the initial research I did taught me that I don't know much. It also helped me decide if I really wanted to do this or not. But I understand it's a barrier for some, to put in that time and research.
So, as you can see, all that being said, I really am of two minds. I think some folks would benefit greatly from your idea. I think that some are not really interested in becoming a "mixer", they don't care about wanting to make their own juice recipes, or wanting to learn each flavour and its nuances. Some folks just want to mix their own juice, because its cheaper, its easy really, and be done with it. Provided with some clone recipes or other good recipes, they will be happy. And there's nothing wrong with that either. I guess it all depends on who the person is that's getting into mixing and what their goals are. I think some of the posts on here for "beginner mixers" (that they are aimed at) aren't going to appeal to many folks who are looking at mixing. They just want it to be simple: find the stuff, buy the stuff and mix. They don't care if Bavarian cream is used for whatever reason. Does it taste good and is it vapable is all they want to know really. And yet others will lap up the info and learn from it.
Sorry to ramble....but I totally see your point. And if I was in business in the US, I would consider it an opportunity :) Marketing to the masses is never a bad thing :) And out of that group that starts that way, some will decide to delve deeper into mixing and want to learn more. And start researching :) The barrier they saw to enter the mixing side of things was removed for them. They might never have tried otherwise. So I see the benefit of it for sure. You use the word "hobby" and I truly think that's the difference for so many people. They aren't looking for a hobby. They are just looking to make juices cheaper than they can buy them for now. And if it turns into a hobby, as it has a tendency to do, then that's great. So why not make it easier for them to get into is a really good point.
EDIT: My apologies for that wall of text. I rambled :) As a brand new mixer, (who just ordered from 6 different places but felt it was worth it), I guess I had some thoughts on the subject :)
Totally understand having two minds on the subject. There is a big difference between mixing as a hobby and mixing as a much cheaper alternative to buying "premium". I think way more people need to be mixing their own juice, it frustrates me to no end how the industry standard is $20/30mL. I feel like a lot more people would start mixing their own if it had a lower barrier of entry.
I definitely think the market is there for somebody to put together a proper kit. The profit margins come in volume and buying in bulk. You can only get a reliable scale for so cheap unless you are buying 100+, whereas flavor concentrates are going to get much cheaper per mL when you start buying in gallons.
Agreed. And you put it much more succinctly than I :) I really do agree with you. My reason for wanting to mix was I love sweet juices (crappy taste buds) but hate all the sweetener added to "premium" juices. I felt I was wasting my money buying juices for 20-25/30ml. But I definitely found myself going down the rabbit hole once I looked into it. And this becoming a hobby was fine by me :) On the opposite side, I have a friend who just wants a strawberry/kiwi juice. Period. He would never do/buy everything I did just to make a few juices. But he would love to make his own.
Do we need an upgrade to our kits to mix by weight? not opposed to getting at Ohaus or mettler and seeing if they have an inexpensive offering for us to add :)
Not to be a total downer on you guys because you were the first place I ordered nicotine from, but your kits weren't appealing even a year ago when I first started mixing. Its like a full science experiment with vials and syringes. Your $100 offering only includes 5x 10mL dropper bottles but has 500mL of PG/VG.
I just feel like the scene has heavily moved away from that. I see almost everybody recommending to mix by weight, and the easiest way is to just mix straight into a 30mL bottle (or whatever size batch you are making).
This needed to be said. You are not a downer at all sir :)
My only qualm is I haven't found a smaller scale that we can stock in bulk here at the laboratory, that won't cost over $50, and will hold a calibration that won't drift for longer than a week. I have yet to find this piece.
Honestly I am probably on my high horse thinking the only appropriate solution is from an ISO9001 approved manufacturing site like OHAUS or Mettler Toledo.
The AWS and NVS seem like good offerings but I haven't brought them in for drift testing. Have any input on a quality piece that we can begin stocking?
Best, Jake
The AWS LB-501 is the only is the scale that I currently use for mixing and I have seen it recommended by others as well. Mine came with two weight for calibration and any time I have checked it. Of course, that's just personal experience; I haven't seen any actual tests done on them.
I know that /u/ENYAWREKLAW has the LB-501 in his videos and believe he uses one for his mixing. I am sure other guys use it as well but I don't want to put words into anybody's mouth.
Outside of that I don't have much experience with scales so i'm definitely not a voice of authority here. The only other scales I have used are those crappy $5 jeweler's scales that you can pick up at the corner smoke shop and I would never want to use one of those for mixing.
As for sourcing it wholesale, no idea there. It obviously doesn't make sense to acquire scales at retail price to keep them stocked to sell in a kit.
I know you're talking about a non-volume kit but I just bought the Heartland Vapes kit and I'm happy with it to start. I will quickly be getting a scale and I know I didn't get the most of the ingredients I could for the money but honestly I'm pretty happy with it.
I started with that one too. It might be a volume kit, but it's not bad, and they're a decent company with excellent customer service. When I see posts like "Anybody know where I can get premium juice for cheap?" on the vaping-related facebook groups I'm in, I point them in Heartland's direction.... And then watch the hate from B&M guys roll in.
... it's vurve.
SI can give you a perspective from someone just about to jump into this having not ordered anything yet (tomorrow is payday and that's when I'll place my orders). I've been researching for the past three days on here, as well as YouTube and some other sites and haven't found a good DIY starter kit either, but the list I have written down includes this scale, gloves, 30 mil bottles all from Amazon, as well as a pack of 100 3ml pipettes. I chose liquid barn for nic and pg/vg because I think they have a great price for the amount you get. Im picking 2 recipes that are close to some of my favorite vapes to start with, that also include some good bases to later try my own recipes. This is all right around the 100 dollar mark. A kit would be nice if someone could do it and I'm sure it would help a lot of new people to get into this, but I think it's better if people research it themselves.
Edit: I'm using liquid barn for PG/VG and nic but bull city has all the flavors I want to get at a great price. So yeah, I have to order from three different sites to get my "starter kit" but whatever it works.
This is a lot of how I felt when I first started. There is a lot of information to sort through, and a lot of it will conflict with other information posted in this sub. As a more experienced mixer its easy to filter out info that you know is crap but as a beginner its extremely difficult to get just a metric shit ton of info and having to figure out and decipher what is useful and what isn't.
I really think the stuff Vurve has been writing is great because it is all current information. When you do searches and see a tutorial to measure by volume and they have a dozen syringes and a beaker out it feels like it would be like somebody showing you how to punch a hole in a cartomizer and how to use fancy carto-tanks. I realize some people still vape that way, but I would never show a newcomer to vaping to get a device like that.
The DIY or DIE videos, and the new Amsterdam videos are great to watch. Those, along with the side menu on this sub explaining nicotine and other things have painted what I think is a great picture for me to be comfortable with ordering my supplies tomorrow. I'm really excited to begin this! I loved the punching a hole in a carto reference lol, that is pretty accurate to how I felt when I heard about DIYing juice.