So, I decided to buckle down and really work on my first perfected recipe. And I was wondering if any veteran mixers here are willing to share here their complete notes/variations on a recipe they consider perfected over the course of many changes. I'd like to really see how your recipe changed over time.
PDF, text, any format really! Thank you very much!
1% tfa honey
- gross
0.9% tfa honey
- still gross
0.8% tfa honey
- still gross
0.7% tfa honey
- a little less gross
0.6% tfa honey
- gross
0.5% tfa honey
- good, but maybe a little less
0.4% tfa honey
- realized I grabbed fa honey last time, still gross
0.3% tfa honey
- at least I can't smell my cats litter box
0.2% tfa honey
- I'm such a shitty mixer
0% tfa honey
- perfect
So what you're saying is that too have large scale production and customer base with a successful juice line, I just need to just use tfa honey in all my juices?
Exactly. In all seriousness, the notes are always just % adjustments in different departments. The best way to start mixing is to really break down the components in your mind before you ever start mixing.
The notes are at work, but we are working on a glazed raspberry filled donut that is diketone-free.
Most of the big changes start to happen in the beginning. Nonna's cake sucks and taste like shitty cake batter, making it taste like a soggy donut, replace with another cake flavor. Adjust cap graham cracker v2 from 0.3% to 0.4%. Bump Joy down from 1% to 0.75%. 7% is perfect for cap glazed donut. Reduce cap golden butter from 0.3% to 0.1%. Use a different raspberry, it's too much in the foreground, ect. Then small changes start to happen towards the end.
Just look at it like getting % closer to your goal: were 85% there, the remaining 15% will be all small changes or additions.
Jon Wayne Clone attempt (still working on it - I started low on lots of %'s to make sure I didnt overshoot layering them in) these are the new attempts once I got dairy milk and sweetenerd involved (I was convinced I could just get the rest right and add that later)- I had...probably nearly 80 attempts prior to this where I was trying to get sweet creaminess without sweeteners just by working on a caramel or butterscotch stone. Also noteable these weren't each building on the last because in some instances I would make 3 new variations at once to test a new idea (so for instance 9 and 10 I just changed 2 things to see what would work better compared to 7)
1 :
4% black honey tobacco (any)
2% double ry4 (tfa)
2% honeywood (fw)
2% sweet cream (tfa)
2% sweetener
0.5% em
2% AP
3% english toffee (tfa)
4% kentucky bourbon (tfa)
2% toasted marshmallow (tfa)
1% butterscotch (tfa)
2% molasses (tfa)
this set of recipes convinced me to abandon toasted marshmallow , AP , english toffee and the kentucky bourbon (the last 2 I had picked up from one of the more recent clone attempts online)
2 : this was the first one where I could say i had captured some of the "savory" feel of UJ JW
Hazelnut (cap) 3 drops oer 10ml
Anise (cap) 1 drop per 10
0.5% coconut (tfa)
2.5% sweet cream (tfa)
3.5% kentucky bourbon (it plays well in this but doesnt add much IMO)
3.5% black honey
1.5% western (tfa? I've misplaced my bottle and since I only had one companies version I didnt write it down)
2% butterscotch (tfa)
2% molasses
1.5% marshmallow (cap)
0.5% butter (fa)
2% sweetener
Will continue , writing from phone...
3 : this ones terrible - I blame the cake batter ( I used lorannes but i'm sure its still terrible with other companies cake batter) - shooting from the hip on this one (still using the kentucky bourbon because it melded well in the second recipe - it just doesn't have any place in cloning this juice)
Also of note is that anise and absinthe flavorings are essentially interchangeable and even licorice could be subbed , I used the cap anise and signature brand absinthe in these but its kind of like the "cherry on top" of this recipe (if you get everything else right thats the last bit to the puzzle) - where I dont mention flavor companies assume I'm using what was in the first recipe (saves me the trouble of typing it all in unless i introduce a new flavor)
2% Vanilla custard v2 (cap)
3% salted caramel (fw)
1.5% cake batter (LA)
2% sweet cream (tfa)
0.5% vienna cream (tfa)
1 drop per 10ml anise (cap)
3 drop per 10ml hazelnut (cap)
4% kentucky bourbon
0.25% coconut extra (tfa)
4% s'desert ship (s-camel / dromedary?) (INA)
2.5% black honey tobacco
2% captain 9tobacco express)
4 : Also terrible (made this at the same time as #3 not as an improvement on it, since I din't know how terrible it is with cake batter just slapped into it)
2.5% EM
0.75% turkish (tobacco express)
0.25 vanilla tahiti
0.75 madigascar vanilla (fa)
2% salted carmale
1% creamy caramel (lorann
) 3% sweet cream
1.5% english toffee
1.5% kentucky bourbon
2.5% molasses
0.5% brown sugar extra (tfa)
2% cake batter (cap)
1% cake batter dip (fw)
1 drop per 15 anise (cap)
3 drop per 10 hazelnut (cap)
0.5% coconut
5 : this is just the new recipe from "lediypourlesnuls" except salted caramel and malted milk replacing normal carmale and dairy milk (its better with dairy)
2.5% EM
3% malted milk (tfa)
3% salted caramel
3% molasses
2% sweet cream
0.5% turkish (tfa - although I think tfa does a poor version of this)
continued...
6 : 3% EM
2.5% sweet cream
3% butterscotch
2% salted caramel
2.5% dairy milk
0.5% sweetener
0.5% AP
0.25% hazelnut
0.125% anise
0.25% coconut extra
2% kentucky bourbon
1% madagascar vanilla
4% ry4 double
2% black honey
2% marshmallow (tfa - although I feel like cap does it better I ran out of cap at this point)
1% molasses
7 : (AND we have savory)
Dairy milk 3%
sweet cream 2.5%
coconut 0.25%
butter 2%
EM 2.5%
absinthe (signature) 1 drop per 10 ml
marshmallow (still using tfa but use cap if you have it) 2%
hazelnut 3 drop per 10ml
carmale 2.5%
butterscotch 2.5% (I did half and half fw and tfa on this just to be cheeky)
8 : (you can see I'm still not willing to give up on butterscotch vs caramel and just go with one)
dairy milk 3%
sweet cream 2%
butter 1%
em 2.5%
coconut 0.25%
molasses 1%
carmale 1.25%
butterscotch 1.25%
marshmallow 1%
absinthe 1 drop per 10 ml
hazelnut 3 drop per 10 ml
double ry4 2%
black honey 1.25%
9 :
dairy milk 3%
sweet cream 2%
coconut 0.25%
butter 1%
em 3%
marshmallow 4%
caramel 4%
double ry4 3%
black honey tobacco 2%
absinthe 1 drop per 10 ml
10 :
same as 9 except 4% molasses in place of marshamllow and butterscotch in place of caramel (also at 4%)
after steeping and testing I think the marshmallow wins over the molasses (although the molasses version isn't unvapeable) and I like the butterscotch more than the caramel , but i'm willing to revisit caramel later (its not a real "obviouse" improvement)
11 :
dairy milk 2.5%
butter 0.5%
sweetener 2.5% (still not sure if EM is the way to gon on this)
maxx blend 0.5%
coconut 0.5%
sweet cream 2.5%
marshmallow 6%
1 drop per 12.5 ml anise / absinthe (at 1 drop per 10 I think its still too forward even after its aged a while)
hazelnut 3 drop per 10 ml
butterscotch 3%
western (tfa) 2%
tuscan reserve 1%
***and thats where it stands now (doing some other projects) - I used lots of tfa because I had so much lying around but use FA and CAP when you can for all flavors. Also lots of the other discussions on cloning this juice (vaping underground for instance) seem to focus on what tobacco is being used - this is a red herring , if you get everything else correct it almost doesn't matter - all my earlier attempts before getting diacetyl heavy stuff like butter involved for savory flavor and introducing actual sweeteners up front , I've probably mixed this thing with 3 dozen different tobaccos and they almost all work out great.
I think this video by New Amsterdam Vape is along the lines of what you're looking for. I have a few recipes that have gone through 7-10 iterations; the notes are usually pretty short, like 1-2 sentences. Typically those sentences are just what I notice that needs work and then I fix that (or break it lol), notice something else that needs work. I can try to find notes when I get home but I think this is an incredible video.