Most of us agree that drippers are for flavor, but sometimes we're lazy and just want a tank. I'd like to hear a discussion about some of the recent tanks on the market, and which are your favorites for testing out your recipes. Both RTA and pre-built. I want to hear about your flavor experiences. You know, flavor notes about gear!
I'm posting this here instead of ECR partly because I don't want to spend any time on ECR, but mostly because I want to hear opinions from my fellow DIYers. Surely everyone in here is a flavor chaser!
My favorite pre-built tank has been the Smok VTC Pro. Not to be confused with the peasantry of the regular VTC, nor the TVT, nor the many other confusingly similar tanks Smok has released. The VTC Pro is where it is at for flavor. It works amazing on warm flavors in the 60w range, as well as chilled flavors down to 40w.
However, going any further below 40w will drastically reduce vapor production. Another quasi-con for some people will be the drip-tip. It has a variable air flow control thing, which many will find stupid. I just leave that choked down for my lighter recipes. I do open it a tad to cool off some of the recipes that benefit from a little added heat like Matthew McConaughKKK. That juice is fantastic at 60w in this tank, but that's a bit too hot for my personal taste so a little opening at the drip tip keeps it comfortable for me.
Of my other pre-built tanks (Subtank, Herakles Plus, TFV4) this one has been the most consistent for accurately conveying recipes I'm working on. It's easily as good as the Subtank for flavor, but without the dodgy dud coils. On the other side of that spectrum the Herakles Plus is muting, so I only use bright citrus flavors in that.
I can't tell the difference between good RTA's , they all work excellent to me . I stick to the Kayfun with the monster base.
Don't like any sub ohm tanks , flavor is not as good imo.
I FUCKING DESPISE building on any kayfuns. Turned me off of tanks for like 2 years because they were such a pain. That said, the griffin is BAE.
OK so since we agree 100% on kayfuns, tell me about the Griffin. Can you lay it on the passenger seat (on its side) without leaking?
I wick my griffin with rayon, and stuffing the coils makes it overflow and difficult to wick. I end up having them short, and it wicks like a champ, but it does leak sometimes if on its side. It does allow you to cut off the juice flow though, so I just do that whenever I am traveling with it and don't have any problems. I can't comment on wicking with cotton though.
I have been digging the griffin, but wicking it with rayon has proven to be a pain in the ass at times.
second this, love my kfl+
Once i changed the standard base on the KFL+ and went with the "Monster" base i was blown away .
Much more airflow while still retaining great flavor . I just won't spend $25.00 on one tank when you can get EH Pro Kayfun lite + models for under $10.00 a piece these days.
I had a Kayfun and the flavor was amazing but I can't manage to make friends with RTA's. Liked my Orchid as well but I couldn't take it anywhere without it leaking. If only they could make a prefab coiled tank that had Kayfun flavor.
Have you tried any of the newer RTAs?
I was put off RTAs in the Kayfun/Orchid era as well. Hard to get a nice build on them that performed predictably and always had leaking issues. RTAs have got a lot better in the last 6-12 months. A few months ago I picked up a goblin mini and the only time it's leaked on me is when we had a wild swing in the weather. I picked up a Crius about a month ago and it hasn't leaked on me yet.
I'm in love with my Aromamizer RDTA V2 6ml, dual 34/26 claptons at 60+W. Despite the "advice" I saw on youtube, I prefer horizontal to vertical coils. At 60+W, I can easily take nice long 3-4 second pulls without it dry hitting. Wicking is easy, hasn't leaked, easy to build on with the Velocity style deck. Filling it kind of sucks, but other than that it's a fantastic RTA. I don't have a whole lot of experience with drippers, but the flavor is on par with, if not better than my Freakshow mini. I'm thankful to the folks here 'cause I sure as fuck couldn't afford to fill this thing 2 or 3 times a day with "premium" juice.
Agree fully, some minor flaws but on the whole blows all other tanks and even RDAs I've tried out of the water. I run a single horizontal spaced clapton through the middle of the velocity style deck on both my tanks and it's just a beautiful vape. Haven't gotten a single dry hit since it was released, they haven't leaked a single drop and changing the cotton is as quick as on any RDA.
For my own coils I like Griffin for flavor. Maybe not the biggest tank, but still better than RDA in terms of capacity.
Griffin is great. I've been trying spaced kanthol but its KT as.good as a contact coil. I haven't had good experience with temp control
I just put twisted claptons there, didn't even play with ni200 or SS builds for this one - flavor is too good for me to want any other experiments.
I have been considering this very question. I am a retired musician and when I use to work in the recording industry we always used the cheapest device possible to insure the quality of our music was able to be used in any format and still be good.
I suspect this is also a factor when tasting and considering the juice we make. If it taste good in a cheap device that the everyday user uses then it will most likely taste good in a high tech device as well.
I've been thinking about this and wondering what the average user uses to vape their juice and considering if that should not be the device we should use to test the flavor of our DIY juice.
While high tech devices can offer fine flavor what will our juice taste like in an average users setup. Not everyone uses RDA's or even RTA's but for the most part they use standard tanks and cheap mods.
While we used the very finest equipment to do our recording possible we always checked it in a cheap tape deck most people would use at home to insure it still carried the same quality of sound we were able to get with our high tech recording equipment. We never let anything leave the studio without this test.
While I respect the opinions of the mixers found here on this site I wonder if they have considered this when they are making their juice? I would love to see some conversation on this matter.
I have thought about it plenty but I've yet to actually bust out the aerotank and try my mixes on it. I think anyone that wants to sell juice should test their mixes on every kind of device they can. From 10-125W, if possible.
I think if you tested it on a cheap tank after trying it in a high tech tank and if they both tasted good then you could assume it would taste good in everything in between.
Well, it's funny you mention this.
I made up a Maiden's Milk clone a few weeks ago, steeped very nicely. Tastes great in my Griffin with dual claptons, and my Crown with the premade SS .5ohm coils. Lady at work wanted to try some, and I filled up her pen thing. It's the next step up from the $19.99 starter kit pen.
She said it tastes awesome and wants to buy some. So it is possible there isn't too much of a difference between devices? I mean, those are limited to one power setting and air flow, so maybe some juices that the flavors need higher power or more airflow to really come through might not taste as good.
I would think it would depend on the PG/VG mixture as to how well it would work in lower priced mods or tanks. Still, you have a valid point. I think it would be safe to say most juices would be good even in lower power devices. I just think it would help to check to make sure.
This is directed mostly to those who are selling their juice or share it with others and in no way is meant to be some standard we should all strive for. If all you use your juice for is your own use then what you're using is fine but for those who are intending to sell or share their juice then this would be a way to insure the quality is the same throughout the entire spectrum of uses.
I guess what I was trying to get across was using high tech devices could give us a wrong result if we don't check to see how it works in other devices. I've always maintained that if it is good in a device built to show all the different nuances of flavor, it should be good in a device that is not used for that purpose. Still, just as it did in the recording industry, that rule does not always apply.
As a musician of ambiguous employment, I am right there with ya!
I didn't consciously set out to do this, but now that you mentioned it I think I've been applying my music mixing technique to juice mixing!
I do all my production on some nice Mackie Series 1 monster monitors (together they are the most valuable things in my home studio), but the final mix is always listened to on some raggedy Apple EarBuds!
In juice mixing I'll always start a recipe with an RDA, but don't call it done until I've got it tasting nice in a tank too.
You sir have stated exactly what I was trying to say. Mackie makes some fine playback speakers and I've used them a lot. The last studio I worked in used four JBL powered playback speakers and they were great for catching all the nuances but a good set of Mackie speakers also have been excellent for playback and I used them in my home studio. I also used a 16 track board and good software as well. Plus I used digital wires and that got the best sound I could find. I still used one of those cheap battery powered cassette players to insure it sounded good in the cheap stuff.
It's strange how things I learned in the recording studio are able to be used in other stuff as well.
Oh yeah, the art of audio mixing is truly an art. Mastering that gets your brain thinking about a lot of things in an entirely different way.
I find in a lot of areas in life I have an intuitive grasp of balancing things, because huge portions of my brain are automatically separating them into their highs and lows. Finding where something will fit in a mix, knowing when to pull something back or push it forward.
Surprisingly my understanding of side-chain compression has not been applicable outside of the audio realm though. If I could just get the base notes of flavors to DROP at the right moment.
The Aspire Cleito - Cheap, preclaptionized coils. (I only recommend the .4, the .2 from what I heard are no bueno). (rebuildable coil coming soon) 35-65watts on the .4 ohm coil.
Kanger (sub,mini,nano) tank. Decent flavor with the .5, their new SSOCC seem significantly better flavor wise. I never ran mine past 25watts.
For the best flavor, a dripper will do. Since the DIY e-juice community likes to do it themselves, I feel like the majority here are using rebuildables or have one.
I haven't used my Kayfun Lite in many moons, but the best build I ever did was a 1.2ohm wicked with cellucotton. It was a pain in the ass to learn how to use that thing but damn, nothing gets you the flavor like tight airflow.
How does the Clieto compare to other pre-built coil tanks in terms of flavor? How about the temperature of the vape? The huge diameter on that coil looks like it would be great for flavors that want to be cool. What sort of wattage can you pump it up to before it heats up?
It's got good flavor, since it's very similar to the cardos that people used 3+ years ago, you can't change the coil without dumping the juice in the tank. Tempeture wise, I only keep it at 40watts, sometime 45. I only vape 6-9mg, 12mg (my usual strength) was way too strong. I would imagine anywhere past 50watts you're gonna start getting the tank warm.
I drip 95% of the time so my tank experience is limited. Never really sat down and worked out detailed notes for each atomiser, really only looked at it as 'atty x has more flavour than atty y' sort of thing.
Goblin Mini RTA - good little tank, decent clouds. Small chamber and reasonably low (but not tight) airflow so a good level of flavour, it's about on par with the Derringer for me. Easy enough to build on and wick. Bottom-fill so not the most convenient to refill. Works best with 50 to 70%VG.
Cirius RTA - sort of a middle point between clouds and flavour. Similar in design to the Griffin. Flavour is mediocre, would put it in the same league as your average medium-high airflow RDAs. Airflow is medium-high. Velocity deck so easy to build on. Easy to wick. Works well with 80%VG (haven't tried any higher).
All throw in the Griffin also. Great flavor tank.
The new Alleria is REALLY good in the flavor dept. Something about it really makes my juice sing.
That Alleria looks so sweet. You get to see your pretty claptons! 3mL capacity seems like a worrying low amount though. Is it really good? I might impulse this at the price they're asking.
Yes, it's definitely a juice guzzler. Really though, there just something about it. Flavor is out of this world. It produces dense tasty clouds. I have just a run-of-the-mill 24g .40 ohm dual kanthal build on it and it rips.
There's a couple good threads about it on VU. You can read other people's opinions about it.
I own just 1 RTA, the OBS Crius. Prior to that purchase my main RDA for flavor was the Paradigm Magma and is, in my opinion, unmatched for dripper flavor. The Crius is a great tank once you learn how to solve the leaking issue. Flavor really depends on the build and proper wicking tho. I've spent a lot of time tweaking the Crius and it can deliver great flavor, as well as decent clouds, if you take time on the build. So far .26ga dual parallels with a 3mm ID is working well. Even still, the Magma reigns supreme for flavor.
I have the subox mini kit. I use my kanger subtank mini with the RBA base, just a single coil anywhere between .4 - .6 ohms at anywhere between 20 and 30 watt and some organic cotton and just love it. Haven't had the coil issues I had with my old subtank nano and haven't had to pay for coils in yonks. The other advantage I have found with an RTA is just the ability to ditch the cotton, dry burn and chuck in a new piece when I change flavour.
I do want to get an RDA though, would appreciate some recommendations...
I've had a few RDAs, but the only one I've really loved is the Velocity. The air flow control is so adjustable that you can easily find a setting that suits you. I prefer the flavor of it cranked down so you're only getting air from the top holes. I liked it so much I got a second one.
The black clone looks slick as hell on the Subbox Mini mod.
Wow, all this discussion and no one has mentioned the high end rebuildable tanks?
If you're looking for pure flavor the Erlkonigin tops them all in my opinion. They are not that hard to build, and wicking is easy once you get the hang of it. The Mark Bugs Gem is also great for flavor as is the Phenomenon Lite by Gus Mods.
Yeah, they're pricey. But if flavor is what you seek, it's what you need. Less pricey but still good, I agree with the Kayfun Lite lovers and EHPRo makes a great version.
Wotofo Serpent is my favourite flavour RTA so far. Single coil, will take thicker wires, really nice vape with a 0.8 to 1.0 ohm clapton and the power jacked up to 60-70W for the fast ramp up. Most RTAs I find a little muted compared with my best flavour RDAs (Derringer, Tugboat v2) but trying Rhodonite for example, all the different notes are there and accurate.
Goblin Mini is good on flavour too, and a cutey. But annoying to live with, it can be a randomly incontinent leaky little bastard whichever way I wick it.
Hey man, I'm guessing you have much more experience with this than me. Would you mind giving me some advice? I just got it cca. 2 weeks ago, and whatever I do, I just can't seem to get this build right on the Serpent, I've tried most of the stuff I've seen on YT in regards to wicking, threw away so many because they were either too thin, too big or too fluffy so they got caught by the chimney rotating. When I rolled the wick much thinner, some of the juices really vaped fine, but high VG was awful (constant dry hits). I can't seem to get any flavor out of high VG liquid anyway. I'd started with 1.8Ohms, then kept building lower up to now, currently on a 0.7 A1 Clapton. Sorry for the bother !
yeah I had some dry hitting at first too, it was annoying, and I watched all the same videos probably. Can't say I'm anyone's expert but here's what's working good for me so far so I've stuck with it:
- 2.5id, 0.75 to 1ohm clapton, diagonal across the deck so the wick ends drop straight into the juice channels.
- Wick strip cut a little narrower than I'd usually do in an RTA. Not super thin, just feeling minimal resistance when pulling it through the coil. I don't pre-roll the whole strip of wick, just the first end to get it threaded in.
- Trim about level with end of juice channels. Then I trim about 1/3 to 1/2 of the wick tail off to thin it - one snip with the scissors, kind of a diagonal across the whole wick tail.
- Juice up and gently push the wick ends in to fill the channels (full but not stuffed), prod any excess back onto the deck. I tried that GrimmGreen method of just relying on the deck design to push the wick into the channels when you assemble but it didn't always work well.
TL;DR using less wick and trimming worked for me.
Hope it helps, it's worth sticking with the Serpent it's so good when you get it rolling right.
I'll keep those points in mind and try that build. The only think I've noticed with Clapton coils is some spitback, it also seems to be a bit hotter, but it takes a bit to ramp up. Do you get spitback from the coil frequently ? I remember having read something someone mentioned, that he found it better to set the wick terminations on the side of the deck, because it juices better (instead of leaving them hanging at the top point of the juice channels), so that's why I've been rolling them that way.
I'm gonna rewick it tomorrow and see how it goes. Thank you very much for your time !
My favorite tank is the rose either short or long version (both are good but the regular one is realy top heavy) i don't have the original i got a clone. I can send link but would rarther not post here. With a 0.8 - 1 ohm coil. Building is a little tricky at first but i mad a very simple template to help get the legs the right length and position. The so called Scottish roll wick technique works great with it. Its my out and about dont want to look like a tool set up and its a tight draw which is great if you like MTL (or want something closer to a cigi for ocasional cravings). Its only a 3 ml tank in the short version but i find that plenty for a low wat single coil.
The new tvf4 series by smok, I'd been settled on my atlantis for over a year and came back on the market for a new tank and WOW - technology has improved
Yeah, I can get some surprisingly good flavor out of the TFV4 if I crank down the bottom airflow. What coils are you using? I think the Quad coils are better than the Tri coil configuration for flavor, but I haven't tried any of the other ones besides those two.