How about this /u/dumpy_lutist guy that steals our hearts then abandons us for months, not even tuning in to the live podcast?

I force myself to vape them as punishment for shitty mixing.

Put it in a box somewhere, labeled. I'll revisit them occasionally to see if some alright juices got better with a LONG steep. Not to mention there's always that one friend that will vape anything, and these juices are great for that person.

I keep and blend failures of the same profile. Then ultimately they have their own large bottle(236ml). For instance I'm working on the perfect caramel and the perfect custard. My long list of failures has netted me 8oz of "Bastard Custard" and about 6oz of "Cut Throat Caramel". Perfectly vapable just less than perfect.

I say dump them.

I used to keep them, hoping that they might be OK after a long steep. But then I figured even if they were acceptable after a long steep I'd probably never remake it when there's plenty of recipes out there that would be better faster.

As for when it comes to running out of juice - it's worth having a simple shake and vape recipe on hand. My go to is 3% FW Extreme Ice. Single ingredient and I can whip up 100mL of it in about 5 minutes.

Nope. PG just allows some flavors to come through better, and doesn't need as long of a steep. The smaller volatiles generally do better with some PG added to the mix, while the larger ones such as creams are better with the naturally sweet VG.

Maybe. Sometimes one flavour will overpower the other, sometimes one will enhance the other, sometimes you'll just be straight over flavouring, sometimes it will work.

I understand not wanting to blindy follow other's recipes always but it's a good way to start until you get a feel for ingredients. At the very least keep a notebook of recipes you see that interest you so you've got a reference of how other mixers use ingredients.

I will answer by saying ALWAYS start low. How low depends on the manufacturer and flavor. Search here and ELR for recommended %.

Having said that, I will say to get the best results, always try each flavor standalone, at varying %. As you do this, you should really start to get a feel for what would pair well together.

1. Buy condiment bottles, or a small bottle of VG if you mix buy volume. Store bulk in their gallons, fill the samller bottles as you need.

2. First order flavors in the sidebar. They are all very commonly used.

3. Depends on what flavors you use, and how often you use them.

If you're making you're own e liquid, I recommend hopping on to the RDA train. You'll be able to taste your juices better

Buy a tobh, plume veil, royal hunter, or tugboat. These are all simple to build on and work well for flavor. I don't understand any of the shit people suggested to you. Just buy an RDA and build on it, someone was trying too hard to sound like they were an expert. Buy a cheap, simple RDA or two, get some 26 gauge kanthal, some cotton(I prefer cotton bacon V2), and a $5 set of stanley screwdrivers from walmart(the yellow ones).

Quality nic shouldn't alter the taste of the juice perceptibly; i always test with nicotine. If it alters the taste significantly to where 0-nic tastes better than 2-3mg, get a better Nic vendor.

Also, no, you shouldn't do that. You're looking for Pine flavouring? The only thing I could find was a concentrate from a company in Australia, a "peachy-pine" flavour that required 18-22% flavour.

/u/skiddlzninja /u/abdada you ever come across a Pine flavour?

TFA - Mary Jane is a very sprucy flavor. Tastes, to me at least, like a pine tree.

I always test with nicotine. I'm going to be vaping with nicotine, so I need to be sure the flavor comes through well with my nicotine level before continuing with the flavor profile.

You could, but it isn't hurting anything as is. Just make sure the fridge is room temperature, and not holding extra heat. The concentrates don't need refrigeration; not the small bottles at least. If you're storing 4oz or more, it's a good practice to refrigerate.

Cool? Check Dark? Check

Should be ok as long as you're not trapping moisture in there, fridges always seem to do that when they are unplugged. Refrigeration may help slightly with long term storage but I just leave everything but nic in a drawer in the basement. Nic should be in the freezer.

At what percentage are you mixing the flavor? Are you leaving the caps off the bottles while they steep? Are you heat steeping, or any other form of "speed-steeping"?

"Steeping" does NOT save bad liquid. It makes good liquid great, in some circumstances. (Of course, there are always exceptions to the rule, they don't apply at your position in the game.)

Mixing liquid is chemistry, not cooking. Since we're working with chemical volatiles, changing amounts and combinations can make massive difference in the flavors. We need to see what recipes you are using to be of any real use to you, and if you are using flavors we don't know about, then we can't help you then, either.

I strongly recommend you go to bull city vapors and pick up the flavors to make mustard milk and give it a shot. It's simple, it's tasty and a lot of people like it. Get good VG and PG (from BCV) and get some quality nicotine (from vapeclarity or liquidbarn) Mix that up, you'll like it. Skimp on ingredients, and you won't.

Just get one success under your belt, because there's another factor here: Your confidence. People who have bad experiences off the bat start to think they can't make good liquid. And once your mental game is gone, it's super easy to think everything tasted bad and that we're all fooling ourselves.

Take a breath, throw out the stuff you have if it's not good, and make some amazing juice.

Steeping is next month's concern. It won't help you now. Don't breathe your mix, that's bad advice (until you know why I'm wrong) and PG doesn't oxidize easily, you're thinking of the nicotine base.

Give us an example of the recipes you're making.

> 2) Everything I've encountered tells me that the oxidation of PG is TERRIBLE. So what's with letting your ejuice breathe every once in awhile, doesn't this just introduce more oxygen which, in turn, oxidizes the PG into the terrible byproducts?

Do you mean oxidation of nicotine? I've never heard anyone mention oxidation of PG, only nicotine. I do not let my mixes breathe with the caps off because that's a sure way to allow volatiles to escape. I leave them be for a few days (at least) to steep in a cool dark cabinet.

:1. Steeping is a mix between the homogenization of the flavors with each other and the diluents you use(PG/VG) and the venting off of aroma molecules that don't homogenize. And the flavors may be already dissolved in PG, but that doesn't mean that two different concentrates will readily homogenize when mixed. Take a look at the point where the Amazon and the Rio Negro meet. They are both water-based, but don't readily mix when they meet. Or google underwater rivers for a more extreme example that applies to diluents and solvents more directly.

> The molecules don't break down

This is somewhat correct. They don't break down, but they can react in minor ways. Take the interaction between Ethyl Maltol and the smaller aroma volatiles. Ethyl Maltol ends up taking over those volatiles and muting them, removing any sensory indication that they're in the mix.

:2. Would you mind linking sources that state the oxidation of PG is terrible? I haven't heard this in the year+ I've been mixing and am interested(and a bit skeptical).

I addressed letting bottles "breathe" in my mythbusting thread. Search the subreddit for mythbusting.(Or look at the top threads of all time and it's #4 I believe.

:3. Share the recipes. Let us help you find what's wrong with the juice, and this thread is a great place to share them without someone getting on you about posting etiquette. You should also find some of the top-rated recipes here and see if it's the flavorings you're using that are just shit. I haven't heard anything good about Delosi.

>Smaller batches steep faster

That's negligible.

I am only gonna answer number one, because I am on my lunch break. 1.) 10% weak, 20% to strong and chemically. When I mix a batch, I usually mix in 100 ml quantities. 1 for shake and vape, 1 for short steep, 1 for long term (3-4 weeks). When I make a batch, I try to keep the overall amount of flavor to be between 6%-9%. Most of mine usually have 3-5 flavors in them, and if I want one to be the main flavor I usually have between 3-3.5% be just that flavor. When you start adding more than 5 you can start to get strange tastes, at least in my experience.

Here is an example of one of my favorite lime flavors that I have made. Creamy Mint Lime V2 4% Lime CP(cold pressed) - Flavour Art 1.5% Vanilla whipped cream - Capella 1% Extreme Ice - Flavor West

It was decent as a shake and vape, but after a few days of steeping it became so great. The lime flavor was spot on, and smooth from the vanilla whipped cream, and the ice left a good aftertaste. MY current blend is 70VG, 30 PG at 6mg.

Now only if I can replicate Vapergates Darth Vaper

Well you should be using a calculator to tell you exactly how much PG and VG to add to get it to 70/30. It does all the math for you.

To answer your question you take from the base PG in the mix depending on how much flavoring you add.

If you're shooting for 70VG/30PG and your recipe is 10% total flavoring (since flavorings are PG based) then that 10% counts towards your 30% of pg. So, you'd add 20% pg in addition to the 10% of flavoring to get to 30% total.

Based on others reviews, I dont think you will see any difference between the 2 nics. NN is a manufacturer, while MFS is a reseller. (Makes future orders easy huh?)

Regarding that recipe, its pretty good, but the EM isnt really needed. In fact it will mute the flavor over time. Sounds like you are on your way!

Welcome!

Not required, but a good idea. Nic will begin to oxidize the moment you first open the bottle, the higher the concentration of nic, the faster it will oxidize. Heat accelerates this process, hence the freezer.

Nude nic sells compressed argon (I think) that you spray into the bottle to displace oxygen to help it keep longer. You can also buy something similar meant for wine on Amazon. Anything similar meant to remove oxygen, especially after you have removed some volume and have air in the top of the bottle, will help.

Definitely keep the nicotine in your freezer. That's why it got rosey and peppery. I have a tube of 100mg/ml from nude nic and haven't had any problems!

Nude nic has a sample 15mL of nicotine and you only pay for shipping.

Carolina extract has a 120mL sample for $18

Too much VC! Try cutting in half. (Just add 15 base or make a new batch at 5%). And age it man! Custards need 2 weeks min and 4 weeks optimum. And 2% is upper end for me on sweet cream. TFA French Vanilla goes really well with Cap VC.

And forget the boiling water. Warm mix just a couple minutes, until it thins, shake it well. Put in a cool dark place for aging, shaking again now and then. A shake and vape custard is rare, but FLV VC doesnt seem to need as much time, but IMO is not as flavorful as Cap.

>i'm assuming the flavor of butter comes from the diacetyl in the V1, but i dont know.

You are correct. Cut the percentage down as suggested and it will be less pronounced. Also, steep.

Start at .5% and work your way up. Koolada is definitely a slippery percent to nail, and if you add too little in initially, you can always add more until you're satisfied.

I say start at .1% and work up. .5% can be a bit high.

I see recipes that call for 10% PG Koolada used at 1 to 2%. Nope. Maybe it depends quite a bit on equipment. Maybe those are not meant for sub-ohming or something? Not sure. I've diluted my Koolada down to 2.5% PG Koolada to make it easier to use.

Start at 0.1% and work up from there. 10%? That sounds painful.

is there any harm (in both bodily and flavor fidelity) in re-making the recipe in the same mostly empty bottle?

I hope not, because I do it all the time:) always with ldpe tho. Seriously, get you some bigger bottles and save yourself some time to be, you know, kinda lazy....

1. Depends on what recipe you're doing. If you're shooting for under 15% flavoring, you'll need 337.5mL total flavoring, or about 12 1oz bottles. I'd suggest you find some highly rated recipes here before buying your flavors, and purchase the smallest size flavors you can to be sure you like the recipe. Then, you take whichever recipe(s) you want, add the total flavor percentage, and multiply your total volume by the decimal. 25% = .25, 10% = .10, and so on.

2. No. Those are what I consider higher level items, don't worry about them until you are able to realize your juice needs them.

To add to what /u/skiddlninja said, download and play with a calculator (I recommend the third one down). After picking out only recipes that have appeal to you and have POSITIVE feedback. Then you will know exactly how much you need.

Some unasked for advice tho, slow down=). Setting a goal of making over 2 liters of juice for anyone, let alone your first time, is pretty damn ambitious. I have been at this for almost a year now, and 300ml of one particular recipe is the largest batch I feel comfortable making.

Welcome!

You could read the beginner's guide for a comprehensive guide to making ejuice. It's listed in the sidebar.

I'd recommend getting a scale, it makes mixing quicker and easier than using syringes.

As for what never to do, just take a look at the posts we have archived over at /r/shitty_diy_ejuice

If you've done that much, it's probably time to try out some new grape flavors. Maybe your palate hates FW/MBV Grape or maybe it's just a shit flavor?

Last time you posted your grape question, I suggested to look into other grapes and I think that's your only choice at this point. search for "best grape" in this sub reddit or something along those lines.

Also, it's Bavarian Cream :)

So apparently I must have dreamt about this last night. LMAO. I woke up immediately and grabbed the bottle of MBV Happy Rancher and tossed in 3% I noticed just in the smell itself a change. I'm letting it steep for a couple hours before trying. Let's see what comes of this.

2% TFA Banana Cream (regular, not DX version)

5% Cap Sweet Strawberry

3% Cap VC V1

Banana and straw is already a great combo, the custard should play well too.