I am posting this here so I can link to it when this issue comes up many times in the future.
Why is TFA Juicy Peach harsh?
3 of the aroma volatile compounds in TFA Juicy Peach are known to cause issues in some sensitive individuals. I suggest going and getting patch allergy tests on all 3 of these compounds to see if you should avoid this flavor.
- Linalool -- This compound is the citrusy note with a little natural skin note. It tends to be harsh to everyone but extended steeping reduces that harshness. In some individuals, contact dermatitis occurs, even in the lungs.
- Butyl Acetate -- This is a tropical banana note, and also noted to be harsh. AFAIK, Butyl Acetate is only used in TFA Juicy Peach and no other concentrates they sell at the time of this posting. Butyl Acetate is a known allergen in sensitive individuals, also causing contact dermatitis. It's a common note in red delicious apples. Some people get red eyes when exposed to it in vapor. For fun, it excites bees to alarm mode, so don't vape it during the summer outdoors.
- Benzaldehyde -- this is a popular compound used in cherry flavors, including cough syrup. It's also the main note in almond flavors. Benzaldehyde is a common allergen, causing swelling on contact. In rare cases, it can cause itching and even blisters -- in a rare minority of sensitive individuals.
All of these compounds are used in extremely low percentages within the concentrate. When mixing the concentrate into an e-liquid, the percentages fall even lower -- but allergen sensitivities can occur in individuals as low as 100PPM.
One thing to note is that Benzaldehyde can also cause issues in people allergic to nuts, even though the compound doesn't contain the protein that causes anaphylaxis. Benzaldehyde is a flavor note used in Honey Nut Cheerios, which include a nut allergy warning even though they have zero nut content.
What to do for peach flavors?
Unfortunately, most flavor vendors do not disclose their CAS recipe lists like TFA does for a majority of their concentrates. This means you should be aware that any peach flavor may still have some of these compounds which could cause an allergic reaction like harshness, chest tightness, coughing, and even migraines.
If you do have a reaction to peach flavors, feel free to post here (what brand, flavor, and percentage used) so I can keep better track of it.
Just made my first two peach flavored juices a few days ago. Currently steeping. Looking forward to enjoying/dying!
If you wind up not liking them, definitely try out FA White Peach. The key difference is that FA White Peach tastes more like a fresh, sweet, slightly underripe peach, whereas Juicy Peach tastes like peach burnett's and should be FDA approved for inducing vomiting.
To be fair, its usefulness in inducing vomiting is a personal opinion. It being the exact taste used for peach burnett's, however, is not. If you have never had the misfortune of trying peach burnett's then I highly recommend Juicy Peach, as well as NEVER remedying that missed experience.
For those who are looking for quality alternatives... I can't recommend INW Peach and FLV Peach enough. Hangsen Peach as well as FA White Peach are also nice, but the other two I mentioned are wonderful.
Everyone talks about IW flavors and how great they are as alternatives to other vendors. What makes their concentrates so good? Are they better than other vendors or just as an alternative?
Specifically, INW flavors tend to be more super concentrated. That being said, I don't think there is one ring to rule them all. Currently I have FLV peach, JF peach, TFA juicy peach, OoO peaches and cream, FA peach, FA white peach, and INW peach.
7 different peach flavors and none of them are alike... One vendor INW for example really catches the essence of the raw peach and includes flavor notes from the skin itself, while FLV represents more of the juicy, sweet meat of a ripened (mushy) peach. They're all a little nuanced.
I had chest tightness from Juicy peach once. I made a single flavor & i put 40% juicy peach. i dont know what i did wrong.
Did you shake it?
god fucking dammit. It wasnt my fault! the bottle didnt say shake!
40% for a single flavor? Im new, but isnt that extreme? I havent seen anything over 20% in any flavor percentages.
Edit: I cant detect sarcasm :)
TFA Juicy Peach at 2% in a mix for me made it really harsh for me. It was like I had doubled or tripled the nic content harsh. I thought maybe I hit a hot spot in my bottle of nic. But all my other mixes were fine before and after that one.
I did that shake and vape though. It's been a couple days since I tried it. I'll probably wait for a week or more and try it again.
Ok, so after learning about CAS and how to search TFA's msds database, I set out to find why TFA watermelon is so damn harsh. Of course, I was expecting to find one of the flavors, but nothing hit. Searching reddit found other people with the same problem, but I found nothing about what was causing it.
I'm trying to create a list of my known sensitivities so that I can vape accordingly.
And unless I'm not seeing something since I'm in mobile, I don't show that TFA lists all the CAS on their msds. You just have to search for it until something hits.
I'm currently vaping a mix that's primarily FLV peach with some JF honey peach and INW peach. I used TFA vanilla swirl and LA marshmellow to offset the harshness and add some body. It's quite nice but a little subtle. Going to ramp up some of the peach notes (minus INW peach because it's very representative of the skin) to get to my end goal.
I've noticed that TFA pear also has some serious harshness to it too when I mix it beyond 4%.
This really explains a lot as to why I have intense coughing fits/burning throat sensation with this flavor.
TFA Juicy Peach in a recipe @ 7%.
It's common enough, but still a minority of responses. Get an allergy patch test to see if you can drill down which volatile causes the issue!
I have a sneaking suspicion that it's the Butyl Acetate, as I use almond/cherry/citrus flavors quite a bit.
Oh well, I'll ask the doctor next time I'm in I suppose
Interesting timing, I had just begun to suspect that it was juicy peach making my recipes harsh. Didn't realize this was a common thing, never thought to search for it until just recently. It's weird because when I had just started a few months ago I used it a lot and never noticed any undue harshness. I left it alone for a while, and now it's harsh. It's my second 30ml bottle of it which I purchased around Valentine's day. I also thought it smelled a little different than when I thought it was nothing but delicious before.
Also possibly worth mentioning: for Butyl Acetate being common note in red delicious apples, I get very mild irritation around my lips and gums when I eat apples. I think it's the skin mostly. Haven't thought to experiment if different varieties of apples have different effects.
Beyond informative, thank you. If I find out what volatile/s CAP Peaches & Cream (harsh above ~2%) and TFA Juicy Peach (just harsh) share, there's another compound for me to avoid.
Well it explains that one house juice I got that was peach that seemed way to harsh...
Happens to be the only peach juice I ever tried, liked the taste.
/u/vendeta44 thought this might interest you. Why Peachies is harsh to some more than others.
I told you people wantz da nowlage.
Thanks for doing this sort of thing, it's the one of the main reasons I read this sub.
I was getting this the past 3 months and i was using the juciy peach ( TPA ) too here and there.
I chalked it up as maybe too much vaping in a day or i finally developed asthma.
Glad I am not the only one.
I was getting the chest tightness, shortness of breath, HEAVY wheezing in my throat. I went to the doctors thinking maybe some bad chest infection..nope lungs sounded clear ( 2x i had the doc check at different appointments. ). Starting thinking it was something with my sinus cause all of this started happening after i had sinus surgery in decemeber.
Though there were times about a year ago now that i remember that i had something like this pop up and i was using citrus type juice. I never thought much of it outside of i might be allergic to something in the citrus.
I haven't had a bad attack like it lately but i have been sticking to max vg and i tossed those bottles of juicy peach.
edit: I have developed a rash on my upper arms too, dermatologist just chalked it up to "it sometimes happens randomly" which i had close to a year. So maybe I need to get allergy tested for Linalool & Butyl Acetate
Yep get those tests and report back! Hope that's what it is so you know what to avoid in the future.
Appointment is coming up but the past month i stopped using juicy peach along with another peach juice. The rash started to diminish and i didnt have any throat breathing issues.
So i tried it again the past 2 weeks and low and behold, rash got worse, had a few times of wheezing and tightness in throat.
Happened to use TPA Greek Yogurt in some of the mixes too. Wondering if there is something in there also.
My man, i've had this exact same issues! A couple of months ago it turned real bad. My throat got so tights that i could hardly breathe and was coughing like a mad man, mostly at night after a days vaping. Went to the doctor and got tested for astma and my lunge capacity was just under 80 wich was fine for a man in my age (37)
I also had another issue with my legs itching as hell and can't stop scratching them during the night, it has also recently started on my arms.. Went to a skin doctor and got allergy tested for the most common things, like pollen, dust, nickel,pets and so on but nothing major came up.. And was told to use some moisteriser creams wich really is'nt helping.
Now i took a break from vaping for a week when it was really bad, for me it helped on the tight throat. Now i usually dont vape alot of peachy flavours but know i've had issues with LA banana cream in the past.. I do however vape a hella lot of the Lenola cream and know that it has bananas, nuts and recently suspected it to have a bit of peach in it to provide with some of that sour note in the fruity end but just a tiny bit. (Been trying to clone this for ages)
Now i still vape lenola cream and haven't had any throath issues for a while but my legs still itches alot. I also vape a lot of other diy juices ofcourse so suspected it to be a pg allergy though i usually mix around 70% vg..
Thanks to /u/abdada for this very important post! You're the man! And sorry if what i wrote seems a bit confusing, i just woke up ;-)
I get a harshness from just about every banana flavors, including LA banana cream. It makes me cough.
Can this brand of flavoring be used in "mass distribution juices" (for lack of better terminology)? I have a flavor called "Peachy Cheeks"Cheeks, from my local vape shop. It hits suuuuper rough.
bloody glad you mentioned that, my sister keeps bees and they're usually just overly interested in my fruit vapes.. I'd hate to piss them off =)
This is exactly what I experience with TFA Strawberry, and basically any juices that have a strawberry element. Could you scan their component list for it and let me know if anything stands out for you that you've seen as a possible irritant in your research?
I've made posts on this before but had no luck, im glad it's not just me that has this type of reaction to certain components. Like many in here, before I narrowed down that it was strawberry, I got myself tested for asthma etc because the wheezing etc was so bad when I was puffing.
I can't use the TFA Juicy Peach, it aggravates my asthma something fierce. I like the FW Peach way better and I don't have the same issues with it. The FW seems to be a cross between ripe peach and candy peach, but it works for what I need it to do. I also don't have any idea what FW does different with theirs.
Any percentage of Juicy Peach from TFA causes this reaction.
Holy shit, I used Juicy Peach in a ton of my first juices, and all of them with it turned out fucking awful. Thanks a ton friend!
So what other things are out there that can cause all of this ( qheezing, shortness of breath ). I am using ELRs database basically because it does have a list of warnings on certain flavors & just trying to avoid those that contain like Acetoin & Acetyl Propionyl.
Is it best to just go with v2 type concentrates for the time being.
Well got a patch test done. I mentioned how I started vaping around the time I started to get this dermatitis on my upper arms. I asked if it was possible I could be have a PG sensitivity. Previously we just chalked that up as just dermatitis, which can spring up randomly at any age. Mentioned how certain flavors I have a reaction too and if we could test it somehow.
He said there isnt a test for strictly pg allergy but he can do a patch test if I wanted, which tests for 36 different things at once. So now I get 3 strips taped to my damn back lol. Can't shower for 2 days or get sweaty.
Report back once you find any connections!
Thanks for following up.
Well did a 36 patch test. 2 things came up.
Disperse Blue 106 & Quarternium 15.
Q15 is in a lot of body products.
DB106 is in polyester clothing.
Neither of those should have any correlation to flavors, though.
Ping me in a few days again and I'll contact a chemist I'm close to who might be able to give me some ideas on cross-allergens.