There seems to be this divide between members who've been here for a while and those who've only been here a few months. I deal with newbies all the time, I try my best to answer all their questions even if I've already answered it 100x before, but this is me. It's something I expect and encourage. For other guys who've been around for a while, I'm sure they don't want to keep answering the "why does my ejuice taste harsh" or "why is this 'premium' juice better" question. I get that and I understand the reason to direct people to the sidebar or make them do a quick search. Managing a sub with such a strong contrast between users is difficult and there's no silver bullet. I commend the mods for doing their best, and I commend the community for being vocal about what they think this sub should be.
The problem I see that's happening is that people are posting recipes with the expectation of receiving some feedback on it. They come into this sub with that idea, and yes this is the place for such things, but no one is really mixing other people's recipes. Especially if the recipe is someone who is a newer member, or a lesser known member. So you get a lot of people who want some help with their recipes, from a bunch of people that aren't going to mix it. And you can only do so much from just looking at a recipe, I don't care how good you are. I think that's where a lot of the discouragement is coming. And that's all we really want out of this sub. We just want better recipes. We want better ejuice, a better vape. Progressing and pushing the boundaries of aromas is cool and all, but a lot of people just want to mix to save a little cash.
So if people aren't really mixing each other's recipes, how else can we expect to get better ejuice or better recipes? What's something that new mixers and old mixers both do that can benefit the entire community? What's something that everyone needs, something everyone wants?
##flavor notes.
Looking at the post /u/CheebaSteeba made earlier today I realized this is what should be happening much more than it is now. We absolutely do not get enough people posting their notes on their flavors in this sub. And that is the one thing everyone can do and everyone can benefit from. This sub is constantly filled with questions and talk about "does anyone know where I can get a ________ & ________ recipe?". What that really means is "I have ________ & _________ and don't know what I can do with it". Well if there were flavor notes on those ingredients, that person wouldn't have a hard time using them. It's inherently what those flavor notes do. Another cool thing flavor notes do is allow newer mixers to get noticed, join the conversation, and get the attention they need to make connections with other mixers. That connection to the mixing community is vital if you really want to start crafting some good ejuice, and dismissing someone to the sidebar until they're ready to post a recipe doesn't help bridge that connection. But if a new mixer posts their notes on certain flavors, this opens up questions about their palate, opens up questions about their mixing style, and thus in turn drives conversation in the thread. Experienced mixers posting flavor notes is more obvious and it just creates a better "search bar".
Testing your flavors and taking notes is something everyone should be doing. It's how you understand your ingredients. So share that info. We all could use a different perspective on them, it'll drive conversation, it'll get newer mixers to join the conversation, and it'll breed a better search. Now are all these flavor notes going to be perfect? No. I'm sure some people aren't going to agree with some of the notes someone posts. But this is why this place exsists. To throw ideas around, to bounce your flavor profiles with other mixers. This "Recipe Race" is not doing anyone any fucking good. We're getting lurkers coming in and shitting on other mixers hard work, we're getting stolen from and ripped off by vendors, and at the end of the day no one is really even mixing them. So I think it's a good idea to try and change that mentality over to a more productive central focus. The individual ingredients.
##idk, just a thought I had.
I know we were talking about this earlier, but I just wanted to share my input on newbie notes.
It's interesting seeing notes from new users. The ones that have been around for a while tend to stick with what they've heard before. New users don't have that knowledge yet, so they go into blind and see things from a different perspective. I'll see someone post notes I may not agree with, revisit that flavor, and be surprised when I actually do get what they're talking about.
You new people need to post notes. Doesn't matter if anyone else here agrees with it. You'll get conversation and help with whatever you're posting on. Even if your notes are complete rambling (like mine are), it WILL generate conversation, and that's what we've been straying away from lately.
Post notes, post often.
Happy 420
you've been a redditor for 3 years, 4 months, & 20 days.
Preach it brother! You should be posting notes almost as often as you check your blood sugar.
The line that stuck out to me was, "dismissing someone to the sidebar until they're ready to post a recipe doesn't help bridge that connection." really hit home.
That being said, I posted my flavors on the weekly thread that asks you to post the flavors you have and have other recommend recipes to use with your flavors. I got 0 recipe response but got an informative response on something else that wasn't recipe-related, which was awesome/much appreciated.
I love this sub and I've made a handful of recipes from it (that I enjoyed!) but I don't necessarily feel "welcome" to post questions and what-not here. Be it the snob-ish attitude I get or the 0 response I get from posting, it's an issue that I'm glad you brought up.
Anyone can invent a bunch of made-up descriptors for each flavor and profile and palaver to one's heart's content. I think it's overkill the way people describe juice sometimes. But just my 2c, since I'm still a lurker here - haven't created something meaningful enough to share.
I've been DIYing for three years and flavor notes are super important to me. I love them. I love reading other's and comparing them to my own. Sure they get a little ridiculous sometimes but it's important to see the variance between different people and between different flavorings manufacturers.
Just earlier today I had someone here mention TFA Cola Syrup as a possible source of a lemon/lime note and I had never thought of that when I first tried that stuff. That would've never crossed my mind as a possibility on my own.
But how are flavor notes supposed to incite drama?
bruh have you seen my tobacco notes over here? It (basically) consisted of me telling ppl to give insight or fuck off.
I think it'd be fun to have you on the podcast. Wayne, think we could get him on to talk about tobaccos some time?
I personally don't rely on notes much except to decide if I should buy a flavoring or not. Even then I don't need much, just tell me if it's good or not and a brief description. I'll figure the rest out myself, in the end it's the only thing that actually works imo: get to it and actually mix all that shit you bought.
What I do is I actually read every single recipe in the monthly threads, they're a good source of ideas for flavor combinations or different ways to use a particular concentrate.
So yeah I'm not disagreeing this is just my 2c: as a newer mixer you can ask for help all you want, notes and recipes are only gonna help you so much. It's called DIY for a reason!
I feel ya on this, I rarely do a stand alone test of a flavor. Like honestly that's part of the fun for me mixing with flavors that I haven't used before, figuring out how a flavor works. I kinda get this sense of pride and satisfaction after figuring out what flavor in a recipe is fucking with it. Like when I found out that FA fresh cream starts to give a weird flavor over like 1.5% I felt like a detective/mad scientist lol
It's a great thought but if you put the focus on flavor notes as the primary source, it will become increasingly more difficult to find exactly what you are looking for. I am mostly referring to the search limitations of reddit.
The flavor of the week posts would be the most appropriate vessel for maintaining something local to this sub, but a third party source like the ingredient pages on e-liquid-recipes.com would make searching for notes on specific concentrates easier to nail down. That would also raise the issue of having items external to the sub though.
Just some ramblings while I am on a vape break at work
This is part of why I don't post recipes often. It isn't often I have the time to transcribe my notes from my recipes both in development, and completed. I do try to offer advice when people are talking about specific flavors or combinations.
On the drama note, I shy away from anything drama related, so if there's a thread already full of salty dudes I usually just go to the next post.
This is one of the best suggestions I have seen for this sub. I have a hard time commenting without reiterating what you have already said, but I will try to give an input.
I always wondered if people actually mixed other's recipes, or is just saying they will. We all know that juices taste at minimum a week to humogulate into something that uses all the flavors involved. With that being said, I never see updates in the recipe threads. Never do I see "Hey it's been a week and your mix has really shined, I would +/- XYZ for my taste, or this would be nice with a dash of XYZ to make ABC." Too often does a recipe thread just go to about 5-7 comments about "yeah looks good to me."
Everyone here should be able to taste by now. If you've gone down the vape-hole far enough to land in DIY, than you have quit smoking long enough to get your sense of smell and taste back. (Presuming that you quit smoking to vape.) Everyone's palate is different and everyone has a different take on flavors depending on vape style, setup and mix style. Everyone can benifit from someone else's flavor notes, even it they are waayyyyy off base.
I have deliberately Winnie The Pooh'd my way into the vape-hole with only 12 flavors. I will certainly take the time to give me flavor notes on each one of them when I get the time on my day off. Even few sentences can help someone else that is looking at that same flavor. Good Luck and Have Fun mixers.
This is exactly why I watch all your videos and as soon as I get paid will be buying your DIY mags. I love how you explain why you use each flavor and why the amount in each mix. It's really helped me come up with some of my own stuff or tweak recipes which I couldn't quite nail down properly.
Cheers and massive props for contributing so much to the community in such a positive way. I think youre youtube channel is an amazing place for new and experienced mixes to pick up knowledge and your quality of videos has really improved from you already good videos when you first started.
Keep it up and I'll keep watching!
I think that's a great idea. Posting recipes is fun and very helpful, but I feel like the best way to develop as a mixer is to really get to know your ingredients. We've already got great tools like ELR for discovering and trying out new recipes.
I've been really bad about testing out my flavorings and taking proper notes; this kind of opened my eyes to that whole process and how helpful it is as a mixer. I wonder if maybe a weekly or monthly thread for flavor discussion would be a good idea, similar to how we have the weekly/monthly recipe threads. Everybody take a flavor or two, REALLY experiment with it, and then come back with your notes on it. If everybody pitched in we could have an entire lines notes done in like a month or two lol.
Either way, I'm really glad I found a flavor that intrigued me the point of lunacy where I needed to find everything I possibly could out about that flavor lol.
It's been a long time since I've messed with scripts, and never with reddit, but a bot has to be able to handle common questions in a more efficient manner than people having attitudes about answer "The same fucking question" repeatedly. The users need an answer otherwise it could give off the same negative effect as a rude remark.
I don't even have the time to mix lately let alone research and test a bot. Maybe it's much more difficult than I am imagining... Probably since I've never seen it mentioned.
I wouldn't mind posting, especially because I feel like I rarely have anything else worthwhile to contribute. I basically stick to TFA flavors (because lazy, also cheap), but with every order I tend to grab at least a couple testers of flavors just to try out. I think I've got about three dozen TFA flavors on hand (and no, I don't regularly make juice with most of them. That's why I love tester sizes: you only waste a buck, a buck fiddy at most if it turns out to be an ass-y flavor.)
I'm one of those weirdos who does read-the-shit-out-of and buy flavors based on detailed tasting notes, especially if they're posted by people who have mixed recipes I've really enjoyed, but I don't think I let them sway me, really. (I have my own crazy dog-nose, and my own reactions to flavors/scents that can't be redirected, no matter how eloquent someone's shared experience) This is why I think tasting notes from as many people as possible are essential.
Nothing horrified me more than the concept of a yogurt vape, even though I eat (and make!) yogurt regularly. But, thanks to /u/skiddlzninja's notes on FLV Greek Yogurt, I pulled the trigger, and now I'm not only close to a really nice raita recipe, but, I feel like it's an essential component in the coffee cake recipe I'm working on.
I'm one of those awful people who doesn't usually make single-flavor testers unless it's something weird, with no Google-able history I can tee-off from (FA Oba Oba & MF Jasmine to name two). I really should, but, my first flavor-buy consisted of, like, 40 flavors, and now I have 209 in my stash, so, I honestly wouldn't even know where to begin.
I'm going to try to correct that, but, in the meantime, every flavor note helps me from making crazy percentage mistakes, and brewing something totally un-vapeable. So, thanks to everyone who has ever posted tasting notes. You are my rock.
I always noticed this subreddit is torn apart in the middle. Seems to be a ton of newbies and a fair bit of old timers, but the people in between?
Probably discouraged after getting invested and not having success with recipes.
With the subreddit's configuration, there's probably an easier way to get individual flavor notes centralized.