Recently read a review of the Five Pawns range that said: >I’d recommend lower wattage for the entire 5P lineup. They taste equally good in a tank or RDA, but these aren’t 80-watt liquids. While the flavors are rich, the mixes are too subtle and nuanced to hold up under the onslaught of massive power and high heat. So turn it down.
This is something I've been wondering for a while as some of my favourite sub ohm juices such as Zoochberry Cream and the various Unicorn Milks (especially V2 which uses FA Custard), don't taste great when I use them in a very low ohm tank (0.2, even 0.4, vaped at 60-100w) such as the Uwell Rafale, Atlantis 2 and TFV4, but taste amazing in my 0.5ohm Kanger subtank. I assumed it was the tanks at fault but now I'm wondering if it's that those kind of creamy desserty flavours deteriorate under high heat.
Has this been discussed in more detail elsewhere? I've only found a couple of short threads on here but I'd love to know more. Are there any golden rules when it comes to making juice to vape at around ~80w? Do fruit flavours stand up better than desserts and creams? Would love to hear what people have discovered about this.
I vape almost everything at 18-23W and 185-195C -- very low power, very low temperature. I do find that flavors are easily lost once I creep up.
What flavors? I have no idea. There's no rhyme or reason. I've found that the more complex the mix, the easier it is to lose some flavors at higher temperatures. I also found that disparate flavor volatiles tend to blend together at higher temperatures.
Since we don't have the CAS recipes for 99% of the flavors we vape, we can't even tell what's in the concentrates.
Your atty, your coil build, the amount of coils and cotton -- all these things affect flavor just as much as temp and wattage. I generally suggest lower wattage and lower temperatures during flavor testing to compare and see.
80W doesn't mean much. 80W to a single coil versus 80W to a quad coil = different vape production.
That's given a lot to think about, thank you.
One thing that puzzles me is the current focus on high power, like it's an arms race to who can have the lowest ohm and the high wattage. Similar to yourself I vape the majority of my juice at 15w, with about a third at 30w and only a small percentage above that.
I would guess I'd also like to know why some people prefer ~100w vapes too.
Remember that the average person you're interacting with here is young and dumb and has nothing in life but to say they're vaping higher watts than their buddies who also have nothing in life to cherish.
If you get out into the vape world, on average the power levels are very low and no one cares about temp control. On average.
Ignore the guys who are at the age where they're still bragging that their cars can hit 140mph.
Great analogy at the end there. Also, I like your flair. It's very fitting and probably necessary. Not trying to kiss ass at all (I'm not the type), but you do a lot for this community, and I feel you deserve some recognition. (Which I am the type to give credit where credit is due) Thanks again.
> I would guess I'd also like to know why some people prefer ~100w vapes too.
Have a look at what sort of coils they're using. For example, the other day I did a dual fused clapton build that didn't really even do anything until 70-80W, whereas my usual build is a simple dual coil that I enjoy at 35-50W.
For me its the feel, I usually dont go over 100w often but im always around 60-80. I just enjoy a warmer vape, cooler vapes don't give me the same satisfaction. Then again im usually building beefier coils (mainly just claptons at 3mm) that require at least 50-60w if not a little more to power properly.
About the wattage, something that really grinds my gears is how people treat wattage like dick length. I'm an average person, of average intelligence but I've spent a ton of time trying various builds, temps, juices, etc and have found that heat is in relation to wire amount/ wattage. resistance means nothing (unless your running a mech mod). for example, in my kanger subtank, i usually run a 24 gauge 6 wrap on a 1/8th ID @ less than 20 watts- if i want to get similar heat on a dual fused clapton, its gonna take a shit ton of power just to heat it up, but if you let it sit at around 70 watts (for 15+ seconds), your gonna get about the same heat. there's obviously other factors but im so put off by this wattage arms race with no foundation of knowledge, just more wattage = bigger dick. There's more to life than the size of your member (that btw, only you give a shit about)
note 2, this is personal belief and somewhat superstitious, but the more temp a coil creates, the closer you get to combusting the contents inside, which seems risky considering we have no idea what any given juice will turn into when combusted, but that's my 2 cents.
Wattage is just one number in the equation, using the heat flux indicator in steam engine is probably the most effective way to judge what you are really vaping at. I love my build at 70w, but that is green in the heat flux and not that hot, I have had builds that are good at 120w because the wattage is not an indicator of heat by itself.
I've found most of my liquids and tanks perform the best in the 30-40W range, 275-325F. I have a friend who doesn't vape anything under 60W and 550F. He is constantly complaining that even his "premium" juices taste bland. (He runs a Vapeston Maganus Ni mostly as of late, although I've tried to convince him to turn it down, but to no avail) He has recently moved away from creams and custards and on to fruits. So, I can relate to what you're saying, but I also think it kind of depends on the set up, which leads me to paragraph 2.
I have a Sigelei Elite II tank that just tastes dry and shitty under 40W / 500F no matter what I put in. Hit that level or above, it's a whole new world of flavor. I own a few other tanks (Tesla Vortek, Freemax Starre, Uwell Crown) which all perform fine at ~30-33W / 270-300F with the same flavors, and taste great. As for my RDA, my daily driver is a Plume Veil with 24g kanthal @ 10 wrap/side equaling a .4 ohm build running at 40W. It's mostly perfect as long as I don't allow it to dry out. It's tried, true, and reliable for any juice at this level. I also dabble with a Derringer or a Tobh Atty, but the Plume is hands down the best of the 3 RDAs I have in terms of user friendliness and flavor. (Shoot me for not being on the Derringer bandwagon, I hate building on it) The Derringer does have nice for flavor, but the cap is a pain in my ass, as well as the post configuration, so I typically just use the Plume. Any other suggestions for dual center post RDAs are very welcome, as I have researched some, but just can't decide where exactly to pull the trigger on a purchase.
Edit:Added clarification
I have nothing to add here except to recommend the Sapor. Center block is square posted, so it'll never spin, big post holes, but it is top airflow if that discourages you. Before the Griffin tank, I was using it all day every day for about 4 months.
I have to interject here, by all means get the Sapor BUT it could spin, there is a problem with the peek insulator around the center block so even though it is square if you get one that goes south it will spin like crazy. My Sapor is authentic and I'm very careful with my equipment and it's been doing this since the very first build. I love the flavor, it doesn't leak and the airflow is amazing but it sees a lot less action than my other RDAs because of that center post problem.
Any advantages/disadvantages to having top airflow? I've noticed in tanks at least that they tend to introduce excessive spit back.
I haven't had any spitbacks from it at all. And it's almost impossible to get the thing to leak. I've ran anything from (my usual test build) dual 24g 7 wraps 3mm, to (more of my daily build) 26g dual parallel 8 wraps 3mm, to fused claptons, twisted, and most everything in between, and I haven't really found a build that doesn't give at least a decent vape. The dual parallel build has been the best I've used on it.
Putting aside all the drama/general dislike for the guy, check out Rip's review of it. I don't remember if he said he liked it or anything, but the video will give you a good idea of what to expect from it.
Great question! So I'm definitely out of the norm for a flavor chaser, but I usually run a parallel dual coil around 100 watts. It's about 4.2 volts. I find my custard flavors and desserts, shine when the vape is warm and dense. However, I prefer fruit mixes at a lower wattage, and a cooler vape.
I have definitely found that lighter less sweet flavours are fine at higher wattages, whereas custards and tobaccos/dessert flavors just get burnt faster.
I can vape Adirondack's Placid anywhere from 30-120 watts just fine though it does lose some flavour at the higher wattage. It doesn't get a burnt taste though like most of my other flavours.
The only thing I don't like about high wattage vaping(I generally don't go over 40 watts) is that I get lots of spatter in my mouth when that shit is exploding all over the place in my RDA.
Ive found anything with peanutbutter needs to stay at a lower temp. Cinnamon as well. Its such a subjective topic. Each vaper, coil, and juice is different. Also ideal wattage on a regulated mod is largely dependent on the actual mass of your coil so its a tricky question. For example, .4 ohm coil w 28g kanthal is going to require less wattage than a .4ohm 22g coil of the same diameter. Theres just less metal to heat up on the 28g coil. i tend to fire the larger mass coils on 65 or 70 watts on the first few puffs and drop down to 45 or so once the fatty is heated up.
Vaping on a mod with a broken display was kind of nice for me. Just press up and down till it tastes right, who cares what the actual wattage is.