Alright folks. I made this post and I didn't bother to comb through the sidebar first. Sue me.
I've lurked here for a few months, and only recently started posting here. I've tried to be careful with my questions, because Satan forbid if the answer is obscurely in the sidebar somewhere or someone asked a similar question 6 months ago and got 2 replies that didn't clearly answer the question or provide enough info. Maybe some of the newer users might be able to provide more details than the users who answered the question months back. I'm not trying to trash the efforts of anyone who put time into creating such a vast collection of information by any means. This sub can be very helpful, it's just that some of the users come off as arrogant, condescending pseudo-chemists when a newbie asks the wrong question.
I want to point out that this sub is growing, and is going to continue to grow. As a result, there is only going to be more and more posts asking "Where can I buy the cheapest best nicotine?" and "Does anyone have a Gambit clone?" Some of the snide remarks could easily turn others away from this community or DIY in general. I think that if we want this community to grow and increase in available information, we should try and be more polite to other users, because someday they might be able to provide you with valuable input too.
I do like this sub, I just think some of us could be a little more polite when it comes to something that was previously asked or a bit of information in the sidebar that we can't find by using the search bar. It seems really circlejerky that someone always has to point out that a sidebar search will take you back to a previous time when someone asked a similar question. If you're going to take the time to mock someone, you could just as well show some decency and just link them to the information instead of acting like a dick. That's just my 2 cents though. /rant
EDIT: Well, this really blew up while I had to go help out at work.. I want to thank everyone (even the dickheads) for the input, there has been a lot of great discussion. I get the need to tell the spoon feeders to do some research before expecting quick answers. It really does make the sub better when I can search 1 or 2 key words and find what I'm looking for without combing through shit posts. However, I've spent many hours reading the sidebar multiple times and checking out numerous posts, but sometimes for the life of me, I can't manage to refer back to where exactly I read something that I have since forgotten. Lick my nuts. (Am I doing this right?) Sometimes I just need a finger to point me where to look rather than snarky comments about the holy sacred sidebar. I'm not trying to bitch about the sub, I'm just surprised at how some users talk to others after seeing all of the friendly "come on over to /r/DIY_eJuice!" comments I saw on ECR when I used to spend most of my time there. Also, thank you to all of the elitist pricks who make this great sub what it is. Go fuck yourself San Diego. (:S)
I use a simple formula:
Effort OP used to find answer him/herself = Effort used to help OP
This is a pretty standard rule.
In software development, it's hard to find an answer for "Hey, how do you do x?" Those don't usually get answered.
Questions that do get answered "Hey, I need to know how to do x. I tried this [block of code] and it doesn't work, neither does this [another block] what am I missing?"
If everyone jumped in at the exact same time with the exact same experience then maybe you'd have a point. I don't have a problem with suggesting the sidebar, I have a problem with people making an effort to make new people feel bad for not knowing what they couldn't possibly know. Silence can say more than 1000 insults. And that's why I downvote redundant posts and call it a day.
Diy is a daunting thing to get into and lot of people don't know the basics but more importantly they don't know how to ask or look for help so by default they do what they always do. Just because you've been working with nicotine, 47000 flavorings and the process of mixing by weight for years doesn't mean that a brand new person is going to to even begin to understand any of the terminology so why bash them? They come in completely ignorant to diy and they know they are but to confirm that just makes you look like a small person picking on an easy target.
Bullying people on the Internet is easily the most pathetic thing anyone will ever do and holding your internet rank up high for everyone to see is easily the least amount of power you should ever feel. And if the mods keep supporting this rude backseat modding then they're failing the community as well.
There has been an enormous amount of work and time put into making the resources available and answering the same questions a 100 times.
I have been lurking on this thread for a couple years now and I still to this day see some of the same exact questions being asked and answered. Its all about the approach. This post is actually a great example of the same post and conversations occurring over and over again. A post about this exact topic blows up about every 6-8 weeks and it is always the same conversation..
If someone shows that they have attempted to find the answer or are looking for a deeper discussion than the previous post it is ALWAYS answered. We will have people who troll, but this is not a forum where the knowledge members of the forum are being paid to assist or build recipes for others.
I work in Support at Salesforce for some of their largest clients and the ones who show a little initiative to help them selves will always have a better reaction and experience than those who simply want the answer with out any effort.
Is it really bullying? I mean, honest question. I agree it might be rude, but bullying is a stretch IMO.
I think the problem is people who come through the door and don't have the patience to seek answers but want them to be discussed in their honor.
I get it, on some level. A fresh discussion can make more sense than searching old threads. And sometimes it does. But that's the other problem inherent with newness in a hobby--they don't even know enough to know what a good question is.
It shouldn't be a surprise that most of the people subscribed here lurk and find answers in the guides and search bar and then carry on getting useful information from the generous contributors to this sub.
/u/abdada is a self proclaimed douchebag, but he is right about a lot and I especially agree with his points about watering down the search results with shitposts.
It's been borderline at times. But even being very rude, is that necessary for adults? No.
Look, no one is going to stop the new users from asking the same questions over and over. There will be more and more over time. My point is adding shit on top of a shit post won't make them go away, it'll just give them visibility. If you want to help or answer then great but if you feel a post is redundant then downvoting and moving on is a better solution.
My #1 reason for posting under my real name is because it changes the tactic from "anonymous bullying" to "specified and protected in-mouth-shitting".
I am against anonymous bullying, but I am totally fine with dropping my tailored Hugo Boss FS_Tyrina's and my 98% cotton Hanro USA Sea Island boxers (in black) and dropping a steaming pile of grandkids into a shitposter's mouth as a lesson.
--Dr. D-Bag.
I think this is appropriate, but with out a doubt this is the moste hostile towards newbies-sub I have ever been to, which is wierd as everyone wants to help others off stinkies and insane premiums. I'm not sure it's the best way to make the DIY community(sub) grow.
This. If it's a question that had some real thought put into it, or if the individual has made efforts to not make their own post, then the rest of us will come together to find the best answer. I only post simple questions in the weekly posts or an already existing post. Funny part is, if you wait long enough, then someone else will certainly make a thread regarding your question.
A lot of the time, I'll take the time to try to answer a question, but when it's "Does anyone have a clone for this", it shows me they didn't even take the time to read the rules of the sub before posting. If you can't even be bothered to look at the rules before tossing out a question asking us to hand you something, the answer is NO.
When it comes to searching, it's about the same way. If you ask a question that can be hard to search for, or is a topic that is fast evolving, I'll absolutely take the time to answer. But when I see the third post of "Is there an app that tells me the recipes I can make with my flavors" for the 3rd time in 2 days, again the answer is NO.
I agree we want the community to grow, but we need it to grow in quality. Not just quantity. If growth means having it turn into ECR with 5 posts about the same question on the front page at all times, we can stay right were we are.
It also lends itself to a safety concern in my eyes. We have people coming in that have never touched DIY asking for complex recipes. If they can't even be bothered to read and understand the rules of the sub, what chance do we have of them reading and understanding how to safely handle nic, or that just because someone sells stronger than 100mg, it's not a good idea for your average person to buy it.
The bottom line is most of us are more than willing to help answer questions, or give people advice. But you're coming into an existing sub, we expect you to at the VERY minimum read the rules and abide by them.
The only time I don't piss into a newb's atty is when their account is really new.
But if their Reddit account is 3 years old, you better believe I'm adding A.B. Dada's Honey to their tank.
When I first started thinking about reading DIY, I was afraid to post here, partly because of seeing some of the harsh replies to what I thought at the time were simple questions. Now that I've been here a while, I understand and agree with the sentiment. It certainly had the desired effect on me, I researched the hell out of it so I could ask intelligent questions, and I got intelligent responses.
I'm probably not progressing as fast as I could, I just don't have the time to commit to it. But I am getting better.
I actually get PMs from people who are STILL afraid to post here -- but they're thanking me for shitting on others who disappear quickly when they don't get their tantrum begging fulfilled.
I wish we could attract more hardcore DIY sharing here. The little things that I find in searchbar results are amazing from the past and recent posts and comments. DIY is about doing it yourself, so I post very little because I'm still finding new things every week that I never would have found myself.
That anise discovery started from a comment I found in some search results here -- I never would have gone that route had I not read it myself from someone who shared it.
> If growth means having it turn into ECR with 5 posts about the same question on the front page at all times, we can stay right were we are.
I lurk here and rarely post because I frequently see sentiments like this - some desire to have more control over the overall narrative which would come at the expense of providing assistance to new users. OP says they're surprised at the attitude they find given the contrast between the friendly welcoming and sudden confrontation - I was too. Hell, one of the first times I posted here I got downvoted and railed for suggesting not measuring by weight (the horror! gasp!). I basically gave up trying to participate in general conversation at that point, and now I feel like this sub is only really suitable for super-specific questions. Maybe it's just me - and if it is, OK, I'll shup and put my hands in my pocket and slink away - but is the equivalent of a searchable encyclopedia with commentary really what you want this community to look like?
I accept the necessity of knowing the ground rules, but frankly, if someone tried the equivalent of this "READ THE SIDEBAR!" stuff in real life, they'd probably make very few new friends.
ps. None of this is a personal statement on you, it's more of a general idea I've had for a while, and your comment just happened to get me thinking. I hope it doesn't come off too harsh!
But think of it this way. The mods do a hell of a job keeping the sub cleaned up, and still almost every day there's someone who has never commented before, has shown no participation, has shown no desire to be active posting "Can anyone give me a recipe for this really obscure juice that one B&M in Eastern Siberia sells?"
A simple read of the side bar would point them to rule #4 and the fact that there is a monthly clone request thread which is the appropriate place to request that.
Every couple of days is a "Where do I buy nic?" question. Again, on the side bar is a link for Nicotine Sources.
At least weekly, we get a "How do I get started?". There's a pretty comprehensive beginner's guide in the... you guessed it... sidebar.
And these are the threads that we do see. There are probably dozens that don't make it through to the general public. I personally like seeing a wide variety of topics in the first couple pages, not the first couple pages of the same question over and over.
>if someone tried the equivalent of this "READ THE SIDEBAR!" stuff in real life
That happens all the time. Take a college course and then go ask the professor what the attendance or late work policies are. 9 times out of 10 you'll get "Read the syllabus". Go ask your HR department at work what the dress code is... Most large companies will reply "It's in the employee handbook". When you get a new appliance or computer or phone and don't know how to do something, do you immediately call tech support and ask? or do you read the instructions that the company provided with it?
It's all the same thing. If someone posts "Hey, I read this and I'm confused about this point, or I really didn't understand this, or I want more information on this" we'll gladly help. If there's a question that may be simple, but is not easily found in the search, we're more than willing to help. I just posted the other day about what types of caps to get for sealing glass bottles for flavors. It's a simple question, and has probably been asked a dozen times before, but search for cap combined with any other term and all you get are returns for Capella flavors.
There's nothing at all wrong with trying to control the overall narrative of the sub. It's what makes a good sub great. It doesn't have to come at the expense of helping new users either. Everything the new users need to know has been asked and answered. No great technological advancement has come in recent history. We've compiled the answers to 95% of the most common questions and linked it in the sidebar. If you still don't understand or have other questions, ask away! We're more than willing to help someone who has shown an interest in educating themselves first.
I felt a lot like you when I first started posting. /u/abdada honestly scared the hell out of me as far as reddit goes. He (and many others) do have a rough personality. But if you show the willingness to research first, they'll bend over backwards to help you.
Think of it this way. If you were selling newspapers, and had a big sign posted right next to you saying "Newspapers - 50 Cents" how many times would people have to ask you how much a newspaper cost before you got sick of it? The 100th time you answer is probably not going to be as cheery as the first.
I agree sometimes it can get a little harsh, but it's the same concept. It's the same thing over and over. If we don't protect the quality, we will fall to the quantity.
It would be one hell of a cleanup job, but maybe it would be good for the mods to let everyone experience what the sub is really like, and just turn off the filtering, and stop deleting posts for a week. I'd hate to see how long it would take /u/kirkt and /u/skiddlzninja to clean up after that, but the users would get a good sense of WHY people are so adamant about this.
People complain about strict moderation, and I've seen mod-free weeks work out really well(/r/leagueoflegends did one a few months ago and it was amazing to see the sub self-regulate.) The only issue is that those mod-free weeks only work on large subreddits with hundreds of daily submissions. This gives enough content to move up to the top instead of the shit-posts. We don't have that luxury here. With about 20-40 new posts in a busy day, there isn't enough traffic to remove the shit posts from the front page.
I'd be down to do a mod-free week, turning off the link filter and automod spam rules to show you all how this sub is physically incapable of self-regulating due to the low amount of posts. Hell, maybe if I see a spam removal early enough I'll approve it just to show everyone how long it would sit on the front page with 30 reports. /u/kirkt, /u/InertiaCreeping creeping, /u/botboy141, what do you guys think?
> At least weekly, we get a "How do I get started?". There's a pretty comprehensive beginner's guide in the... you guessed it... sidebar. And these are the threads that we do see. There are probably dozens that don't make it through to the general public.
I hear you, friend. The sidebar itself isn't what I've got a problem with. I simply think the 'snobbish' (too strong of a word, really, imo) attitude the OP is referring to is an implicit one, not an explicit one. Considering the ample amount of repeated questions that you mention, it's much more reasonable for me to conclude that the "sidebar tactic" simply isn't working so well as a way to prevent repetition, than it is for me to assert that all the new people who don't read the sidebar are clueless and inattentive. Because of what it is (a rote set of "the right way to do things") and the way it is presented, however, people obviously do end up feeling that way at least at first even if it's not the intention. Presentation is equally as important as what you're saying.
> If you were selling newspapers, and had a big sign posted right next to you saying "Newspapers - 50 Cents" how many times would people have to ask you how much a newspaper cost before you got sick of it? The 100th time you answer is probably not going to be as cheery as the first.
Sure, but this is apples/oranges. Crucially, we have the option to ignore the request and the newspaper dude/dudette doesn't - there's no real immediacy here. Someone whose question is ignored or downvoted here is likely to go and search for answer when they don't get the easy reply, assuming they really do care about the answer. Just reiterating 'check the sidebar' or somesuch to them comes off, as the OP said, 'snobby'. Honestly, I think if one cannot be "cheery" the 100th time, maybe they shouldn't be the one constantly replying to these kinds of posts, as it's likely to cause them frustration. That's not fun for anyone. So, yeah: presentation, presentation, presentation.
> I agree sometimes it can get a little harsh, but it's the same concept. It's the same thing over and over. If we don't protect the quality, we will fall to the quantity.
It can definitely get harsh, and that's why we're in this conversation to begin with. As for "protecting quality", that's the function of upvotes and downvotes and part of why people keep coming back to Reddit. These other unspoken & shared artificial rules ("if someone asks a silly question then post 'read the sidebar!') are what I meant by trying to control the narrative. I simply don't see that kind of behaviour as "protecting quality", it just makes people like me irritated and not want to contribute. Kicking a dead horse here, but awareness of presentaion would be super-helpful in preventing that feeling.
tl;dr - BE EXCELLENT TO EACH OTHER
ps. I see your point about "check the...", but consider this: it was actually other students at my uni who kept parroting "check the syllabus", and the same at my jobs before I became totally self-employed. It was never management that said "check the handbook", it was other employees. That's one characteristic of good leaders, teachers, and managers - they don't assume you're dumb, they give you value as a person, assume you missed something and you genuinely want help. Of course, reddit is a totally different context, I just wanted to give some food for thought.
> If you as a question that can be hard to search for, ...
As a proud, red-blooded question that can be hard to search for, am I exempt from the sidebar?
Damnit... Ok, I'm not sure on this but I would have to initially say that if you, as a question that can be hard to search for, are willing to post asking what the answer to YOU is, that absolutely would not be covered in the sidebar, and I will not be held responsible for ANY of the answers you receive.
> I want to point out that this sub is growing, and is going to continue to grow.
This is the exact reason for the current mindset. We don't want the front page filled with simple questions that can be answered in the sidebar while the engaging and informative discussion gets buried by pointless questions.
>Some of the snide remarks could easily turn others away from this community or DIY in general.
We aren't here to pander to people's sensitivities. We're here to learn and to teach, mostly the latter when it comes to the people I see posting snide sidebar comments. If you take Basic Mathematics in college, and the book shows you the exact process for doing long division, do you think the professor will walk you through the steps or will he tell you read the book?
> If you're going to take the time to mock someone, you could just as well show some decency and just link them to the information instead of acting like a dick.
This would only perpetuate the cycle of people asking easily answered questions. They would learn that if you want the information without having to search, just post a question and get the answer linked to you.
We do have a place where people can ask as easy a question as they want to without fear of being told to check the sidebar, but barely anyone uses it. The Weekly New Mixer's Questions Thread is there for a reason, and if people can't wait AT MOST 6 days to find out what scale we recommend, they should read the sidebar instead. It's quicker than getting an answer to a shitpost anyways.
This all may seem harsh, but I've tried to improve new users' experiences here with some changes. They all got incredible amounts of hate or are never used. I'd rather keep the quality of content high enough to maintain our experienced users than lose them and ruin the sub because some adult's ego can't handle being told to read.
When i was a new redditer, i found this site. I read the entire sidebar and every single post I could find, pages and pages, bookmarked the ones I found super helpful, read the sidebar about 10 more times while making purchases for the things we needed. We've made several pretty decent recipes, come up with about 5 ADV's of our OWN recipes and are still learning and experimenting today. I think I've asked maybe 2 questions, as every answer needed to make a good juice is found by reading and experimenting on our own.
I comment rarely, read a shit ton and enjoy learning here. The older "douchbags" are the ones who have made this possible, and I appreciate them immensely and really hate the disrespect they get from the newbies who are lazy and oh so "sweet and nice touchy feely" wanting to be spoon fed. Its annoying as hell to have to read just the posts on the front page that are the same repeated questions over and over and over again.
People who really want to learn and are serious will do the research, ppl who are lazy and don't, won't. Why should anyone cater to someone who is too lazy to even read the rules. IF you have an app that doesn't readily SHOW there's a sidebar, why not ask where to find it, since it's stated in the guidelines of the group, which you SHOULD have read before joining??? If u can't even read that, then, your a spoon feeder, and sorry, but not worth the energy to post to.
I know this sounds crappy, but I think the real "dicks" are the whiners complaining they are not being treated fairly. These people don't OWE you anything, and that's what's wrong with the world today, that entitlement mentality. No one is entitled to the knowledge that these ppl have spent time and money to figure out... they've freely given their knowledge so you can learn a craft they love, and to save yourself some money. So quit whining and just read the damn side bar. "rant over"
The reason I stopped posting actual valuable information as new posts is evident in this thread. It would get downvoted as usual, so there's zero point in helping the lurkers who hate me with a passion.
They don't even understand what the downvote button means. It doesn't mean "I disagree with you", it means "this is off-topic and adds zero value to the discussion".
So when I see most of my valuable comments here are downvoted, it tells me not to post anything else that might be valuable.
yea, true, most ppl downvote because they don't like what you say, not whether your comments are in context to the subject matter. Prob is as I stated tho, the entitlement mindset. I always upvote your comments, after i'm done giggling. I value your knowledge and missed when you were not around. And don't worry, if i ever feel the need to downvote you, i'll let u know why. ;) I usually just downvote the lazy ppl who can't be bothered to do any actual research, espeically if they post something like, I don't know where to buy nic at, and yes i searched the side bar, lie!!! or worse, here's my first purchase, look at me! ugh!!!
You just keep being you and please don't let the whiners keep you from sharing your valued knowledge.
I think if this site sucks so much then maybe the spoon feeders should go create their own DIY site and learn what they can from each other. I mean, I'd rather see 100 valuable members providing knowlegable content, than 100.000 filling up the pages with the same questions.
There's many of you that I look for when I need something answered, and you are def one of them, and missed when you are not here. At least by those of us who care to learn, and not be offended over being told to do a little research for themselves first.
anyway, stay you and thanks again for all you've shared.
I really appreciate that -- tagged you before with the good color so we must have agreed on something in the past!
I will always post here. I will probably hide some good stuff in deep comment threads and hope the good folks find it. In the long run I'll eventually publish all my work in a free PDF and toss it in the wild for people to fap or disagree on.
Vaping has a huge future but I want to understand the risks better, and right now there isn't ONE manufacturer in the industry who believes in transparency. TFA is a good start but not far enough.
Whenever I can raise the 2 or 3 million I need to do a juice line correctly, it will include the CAS recipe list with exact percentages. I just can't do it for less than 2 million and 3 million is probably more realistic to launch a product properly. It may happen, it may never happen, but I'll keep throwing my own money and time at the problem nonetheless.
Note: 3 million is only 30,000 customers x $100. It's doable eventually.
When the inmates take over the asylum, you're saying the best thing to do is to encourage them?
Fine with me.
If I take time to answer their shitposts, then actual responsible users doing due diligence will find a ruined searchbar. The post results will be crap.
I've watched 3 great subreddits go to shit because the mods quit and they let the numbskulls post anything they wanted to, which diluted the search results to useless, which had many good users leave permanently for Facebook private groups.
The DIY Facebook group I'm a member of now has a pretty strong anti-reddit policy on there. I can't even get 2 friends of mine invited because they're fascists. But it's such a great place to swap ideas, specifically due to the fascism.
I'm not here to help Gomer Pyle save money. I'm here to promote the expanse of vape chemistry and flavor science. Since it's a democracy, you're welcome to downvote everything I comment here.
Most of the people who are helpful around here are also the ones who figured out how to find answers themselves. The people that need to be spoon-fed are not likely to be the ones helping people later on.
Exactly.
The last thing I want to do is help Methy Tacokiller play with dangerous chemicals.
I love vaping. Some of my friends came out of the vape industry. But I have come to hate vapers because of the entitlement mentality combined with irresponsible lifestyle choices combined with a lack of safety mindedness combined with how cheap they are.
DIY is going to become a shithole this year if the mods don't tear off heads and shit down neckholes with a vengeance.
I'm not calling for fascism, but let us troll the shitposts so people either learn and become useful to the community, or GTFO and never come back.
That last paragraph is the exact reason I almost never post here anymore. I used to post a lot. Both helping people and asking questions myself. Get off your high horse man. Everyone needs to start somewhere.
Whenever I refer someone to this subreddit, I feel inclined to let them know it's full of assholes so be careful. I shouldn't have to do that.
While I agree that a clean sub is a good sub, as vaping gets more popular then so does diy and you will never in a million years stop the noob questions. Think the shit posts are bad now? Wait another year.
While its funny at times to watch you in particular post with such frustration and in such great volume, it does no good. When I see a post that has no place here I simply downvote and move on. I don't have the time to sit on Reddit all day and night waiting for things that upset me.
Downvoted on principle.
The funny thing is, when I shit on a poster or comment, I always upvote them.
If someone debates me on reddit, I upvote them too -- that's because it affects how reddit displays comment threads within a post, so by upvoting the hate, I get my opinions to a wider range of eyeballs.
It's all marketing.
I've been lurking here for about 2 months. I've read probably everything in the sidebar multiple times. I check out the new posts/threads daily. I've been through your post history as well, soaking up all the info I can. I've made one comment before in this sub, and it was to tell the op to use the sidebar. The op was literally something like " where do I buy nic, flavours, vg, pg, etc...." WHAT IN THE FUCK!! When people post that shit it only makes the experienced guys here less willing to help, for the most part at least.
I agree with your take on this 100%. I also really enjoy when you tell it like it is to people asking to be spoon fed.
On another note, thank you, and to the others who contribute as well. I'm doing my first order this week, I'm fairly confident that I know exactly what I need to do, and how do do it. With the amount of information you guys have shared, it really does seem fairly easy to do. I'm sure I might have a couple questions after I get started, but I honestly won't be surprised if I don't. I plan on following the top recipes here, get a handle on things, and enjoy vaping at a discount. Maybe eventually I'll try to come up with a few recipes of my own, but that's the last thing on my mind.
As far as I can tell, I should be just fine following recipes and making my own juice safely and efficiently, and I've gotten to this point without having to ask any questions or posting useless threads. Maybe it's shitty to say, but if I can do it, so can others. All that's required is the ability to read and type. The info is here.
Once again, big thanks to you and the others who contributed. I'm looking forward to this.
Edit- here's a dumb example. Just read a post and someone commented to be careful with a flavour contain ethyl-maltol. Punched in "ethyl maltol" in the search bar, done, took all of 2 minutes to figure out what it is and what it does. EVERYTHING for us beginners is ALL HERE. There's no reason that the same "help me" threads need to get posted here everyday.
Tagged you with a good color. Not for ego stroke reasons but because you get it.
Please, please, please post any problems you have here. Don't be afraid to. Just make sure to say what you've done to get to that question. You don't need to be super specific, just say "I mixed TFA honey at 10% and McCormick Vanilla Extract at 15% and my lungs hurt. I checked the searchbar and found both of these to be either gross or a huge danger to my life. Does anyone have a pointer as to how I can substitute these?"
Details that prove you did even just 30 seconds of work is all we need to dig in and help. Even if you mix a TOTAL FAILURE, posting details here means others will find it in the search results and not make that same mistake.
Thank you, for me that's quite the compliment coming from you, people can say whatever they want, kissing ass, ego stroking, whatever. All in all, the information you have and have shared is VALUABLE, as well as the other big contributors here. I just cannot understand why people are whining and begging to let others ask and post for "getting started" type of information. IT IS ALL FUCKING HERE IN THIS SUB!! THERE IS NOT A SINGLE BEGINNER QUESTION TO BE ASKED! I feel the need to put that in caps. Why are people fighting for this??? There's literally nothing left to ask if you are a person who's just getting started! Others would probably disagree with that statement, but the way I see it is if you're just getting started, then follow along with the simple instructions, there is zero reason to stray from the beaten path because we haven't walked it yet on our own. I realize I'm repeating myself but this is also for people reading our comments, so one more time, EVERYTHING TO GET STARTED IS ALL HERE, YOU ARE IN THE RIGHT SUB.
Something needs to be done about this sub, because I agree with you, it's going to get very ugly in here. The popularity is multiplying very fast. My biggest concern is losing the people like you, the contributions, the innovations, the in depth information, and the continued research you guys are sharing.
If you need any of those simple questions answered, and can wait, the new mixers questions thread is a safe place for any questions
Thanks a lot skiddlz! My biggest obstacle that I can see at the moment is making more sense of the percentages/millilitres. I'm planning on using a scale from the start, it seems like it will make things simpler. So yeah, as of right now my only concern is understanding the ratios better, but I need to have everything in front of me so I can take it step by step. With all the tools, how to's, and calculators provided here, I think it will go pretty smooth. It's just one of those things that I need to just do it, follow along, and it will make sense. Thanks again, I've read lots of the information that you share and you've been a big help, I've learned many things from you as well!
Chances are most of you, including OP, have no idea what this sub looks like from the mod (unfiltered) side.
When I'm in town, I'm on here least 3x/day cleaning up reported posts or deleting posts from threads like the clone thread which haven't followed the rules. I go through my mod queue at least once a day, usually 2-3x. I subscribe to all the threads I make, like Monthly Recipes and Clone Recipes, so that any top level post not meeting the thread criteria gets zapped. So, for starters, chances are you don't even see the majority of posts or replies which have been removed. If you saw them all, you'd be a bigger sidebar nazi than /u/abdada or /u/sidebar_over_here---> (what ever happened to that guy?).
Second thing that always amazes me, is that for 90% of the shitposts, at least half a dozen of you kind souls have already given OP a decent answer to a question that needn't have been asked in the first place. Another few of you report the post, and it gets pulled.
The normal process is:
- Shitpost
- Honest help from the community
- Post removed by mods.
What OP is complaining about is either (a) a remedy to a problem that really doesn't exist, or (b) a post from someone who has been here all of five seconds before asking a question so ignorant as to make even the nicest of use get that little tic of the eye, like Herbert Lom in the Pink Panther movies.
We mods are not here to have our own little fiefdom and chase away the meek and powerless. The rules in place are in place because that has what the community has asked for. The majority of noob questions have already been not just answered, but detailed. When we see a need, we do something like first order flavors or verified vendors so that the resource can be added to the sidebar and/or wiki and dealt with once - conclusively - by the community. If we keep answering the same questions over and over again, the most productive and helpful members of the sub are going to go elsewhere, and then it's game over.
/u/skiddlzninja - you've been a mod here for a few months now - am I exaggerating?
#THIS COMMENT is why I could never be a mod anywhere. I am such a believer in expression that I couldn't censor someone even if they posted violent illegal porn with candy canes and Bieber photos. I have a hard time even typing STFU in commentary.
But I respect what the mods do because I see a lot of posts I don't bother commenting on because I figure they'll be nuked and removed before anyone sees my comical shitlord respose.
I love this community and it means so much to me which is why I'm such a shitlord Nazi at times.
Thanks AB. There are times when I ask myself if we should invite you to mod, then I sober up. Love your participation though.
[removed]
Fatass?
Umm, I have a 6-pack. Look it up.
As for you calling me a liar, we've had this discussion before. I am not anonymous here, you are. Anonymous people are the cowards -- if you want to draw a line in the sand, why do you do it hiding?
I quit posting in ANY ecig related subs a year ago. The elitism and ass-hattery are just too much for me. Back when I got my DNA40 and it was a new thing I tried to start a few discussions about it and how to use it. There wasn't anything out there about it. I was down voted every time until my posts disappeared. I haven't made but a few comment replies here and generally someone comes with some snide remark. I honesly dont know why I even read here. Its all "Mixologists" and the same questions over and over, but its an internet forum. I dont know why we expect anything else.
One thing though, for all the bullshit around these subs the term "steeping" is still used in place of aging. Nothing is steeping its just getting old.
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/steeping
I agree steeping is not exactly the correct term. I think aging is a better term as well. Steeping implies soaking, but we are not really soaking anything, more so just letting the ingredients sit for more time to interact.
The steeping was already done for us. Thats my argument. Im not nearly as into this as others. It started just becuase of how much cheaper it is.
I would call it emulsification but the only real skills I posses are the ability to cook and wash dishes.
Just because it is now called steeping doesn't mean that the terminology cannot be corrected. I call it aging. I always have and always will. I wonder why people that know better continue to call it steeping. Can we please all just start calling it aging?
> One thing though, for all the bullshit around these subs the term "steeping" is still used in place of aging. Nothing is steeping its just getting old.
GTFO of here.
steep - /stēp/
"soak (food or tea) in water or other liquid so as to extract its flavor or to soften it."
*soak or saturate (cloth) in water or other liquid."
Steeping is totally accurate.
My bad, I dont have any recipes that take tea leaves.
Soaking anything in another liquid to extract flavor is steeping. Concentrates are potent mixes of aroma volatiles, and we're moving the concentrated volatiles from the concentrate into the solute/diluent.
Homogenizing is a better term but tough to spell.
#Aging is totally incorrect as a term.
From the wine wiki: "While wine is perishable and capable of deteriorating, complex chemical reactions involving a wine's sugars, acids and phenolic compounds (such as tannins) can alter the aroma, color, mouthfeel and taste of the wine in a way that may be more pleasing to the taster."
Aging in regards to alcohol involves compounds that don't generally exist in eliquid, namely sugars and phenolic compounds (Cannabinoids, Eugenol, Guaiacol and Raspberry ketone are the most common phenols in eliquids).
Thanks, I'be been using the term aging forever now and you never once told me to gtfo. I'm slightly offended.
To be honest, even before I made my own posts I totally understood people getting upset about answering the same question over and over.
I read the texts in the sidebar in full. Every single one. Afterward, I didn't have one more thing I could possibly ask as a newbie question. Almost every questions I've seen hit the front page is a really simple question that is clearly covered in the side bar.
I'm constantly seeing questions like
which juices should I get first?
my nicotine tastes harsh what's wrong?
what's the best way to steep?
does anyone have X juice clone recipe?
I could really list off the common questions forever. They're always the same. And they're always in the sidebar.
When people ask those questions it's almost a "fuck you" to all of the people who spent so much time putting it together. They're lazy. Its extremely annoying.
Also, when it turns out to be a rare question that doesn't have a clear answer, I never see the cries about the sidebar. I really only see it in the constantly asked questions.
Really can't get on board with what you're suggesting. I like the sub the way it is. I don't really care if people neglecting to read more than a few posts before writing up a post get their feelings hurt.
I agree with the points you're making, however I have been off work for the past 3 days. (Except for being called in this afternoon) Without the time off, I probably wouldn't have even bothered suggesting a slight change in the level of politeness around here. I've read literally every post here all weekend and couldn't help but notice how hostile the environment can get.
I asked a question about ethyl maltol vs sweetener the other day and got my ass chewed, even though I more or less stated that I looked pretty hard for an answer but was asking for a bit more clarity.
Uh, I promise I'm not trying to be a dick, but I just checked out your post and you didn't get chewed out by any definition of the word. You actually got some pretty nice feedback from it.
Really, you had detailed answers, one as a link to another post, and one person who answered you and politely referred you to the sidebar. Not one person in there was anything but polite regardless of what they said.
Assuming you're talking about this thread.
/u/mrfreeze81 at the bottom.
Yes I got help and yes I read the detailed answers and learned, but commenters like the child at the bottom is something that pops up frequently, and it's not always the same user. That's more or less what my post is referring to.
You mean this post? I fail to see ANY ass chewing at all in there. And no edited comments so....
One person suggested reading the sidebar, and got solidly downvoted.
I was able to get the answer to almost every question by reading the side bar information and lurking. Short of that there are the weekly mega post as well as replies to already going discussions. Then there is a search bar.
I think, basically, if someone can't be bothered to take the time to read the sidebar, they will not have the disposition to DIY. I think this is why you see the annoyance when people ask questions that are readily answered in the sidebar links. You say "obscure" information, but let's be honest, obscure questions are not generally treated dismissively. I have only been here about a month and I have seen the "other uses for flavorings?" question like 3-4 times at least. A search of "other uses" returns all the answers to that question...
Having said that I think there seems to be a lot of sensitivity to this, because in general no one is all that aggressive here, most everyone is helpful. Yet I keep seeing these post about how mean everyone is...
>Having said that I think there seems to be a lot of sensitivity to this, because in general no one is all that aggressive here, most everyone is helpful. Yet I keep seeing these post about how mean everyone is...
If you only make shitposts, then the only people who respond to you are mean.
If you really want to see mean then go over to ecr and comment about a popular item in a negative way. I find most of the people here are at least grownups and not some snot nosed entitled kid who thinks they know all there is to know about everything.
I get really frustrated when I constantly see post about some product that is just a bad device and if it's popular and you say anything negative about it (I'm looking at you iStick 50W) they down vote you to oblivion.
Not to mention if you disagree with the hive mind then they will attack with a vengeance. I've spent the last three years on ecr daily and I can tell you this place is mild compared to the stuff I've seen there.
I for one, don't want to see this sub become the electronic cigarette sub. Has anyone been there lately? The same shit is posted over and over again. What batteries should I get? What is Temperature Control? Oh look at the coil I built! Why is my Uwell Crown tank [insert problem here]? There's nothing wrong with telling people to read the sidebar or do a search before posting. I was one of these people when I first joined this sub and was told to read the rules. Did I get my panties in a bunch and whine about it? No, I learned my lesson and obeyed the rules.
On that same note, I am new to vaping in general but have been a long time Reddit user. I created this account in order to subscribe to all the vaping subs so I can sign in and see nothing but vape stuff on my front page and the first thing I did when I found a new sub to add was to check out the sidebar. I found numerous additional subs to add and I found a ton of great website links, videos and more.
So while it may be annoying to be told to read the sidebar, it is also a really good habit to get into and it's important to encourage new users to get into that habit. Somebody spent a great deal of time (in some cases) to put that information together and it's there for a reason. New users should be encouraged to read it before posting.
I have to agree with you, one of my only posts here was looking for others opinions on how to make a good blueberry cream from TFA and i got totally blasted by skiddlz somewhere along the lines of "you wasted 342 characters typing this instead of reading sidebar and searching" and other rude comments.
This has always been a complaint of mine. Forums in general reduce their usefulness by requiring a person to read the WHOLE PAST of the entire forum before posting a question. That is what a forum is for, deal with it.
Many people are looking for discussion and hope they will get a response to their particular question, whether Billy asked it 14 months ago, or not.
If "no repeat questions ever" is the requirement, we may as well stick with google, at least it rarely tells you to get lost.
If the only thing you have to offer is "read the sidebar", it would be easier to just shut the fuck up and let them get there on their own. You just make the sub look like the circle jerk it wants to be, rather than a community of people who enjoy being self sufficient and/or helpful to like minded people.
Except, as has been pointed out, when you let the questions be asked over and over you dilute the effectiveness of the search bar. When the search is diluted, you cause more people to have to ask the question, which dilutes the search bar further, and on and on.
Are you implying that it might help if the mods just delete shitposts that dilute the search results?
No. I was saying simply that that is the result. Does it hurt to try and slow down or mitigate that process?
I implied nothing. I was directly saying that it helps no one when you search for a flavor and you have to scroll through 2 pages of clone recipes request and first flavor buys because they say "It has an Orange taste kind of" and "would orange be a good flavor". Can this be eliminated completely? No, but does that mean we have to just let it happen as fast as possible? I don't know. I think the issue is I don't think telling someone "Read the sidebar or comment in the weekly new mixer thread" and deleting their post is "mean".
You wont and cannot stop the same questions from being asked over and over and over, no matter how you answer a post.
If you don't like the question, just downvote and ignore... rather than being a snide douche.
I dislike a lot of questions and posts I see on reddit. I realize just how difficult it can sometimes be to ignore really inconsiderate and lazy appearing posts, but 99/100, I manage to just ignore. Sometimes I cant stfu, but I manage to be civil. Very rarely do I answer with hostility or passive aggressive douchebaggery (which is where "read the sidebar" lies).
I mean, if someone asks a question that is answered by referring to the sidebar - there is no harm in referring them to said sidebar. That's why it's there. There's no reason to be a dick about it, but try to understand that spamming up a sub unnecessarily is a dick move to begin with.
Same thing happened to me, so I never post. I just stick to myself, rather than posting, and getting yelled at, rather than pertinent info :)
Are you with the vape shop in Homewood? That's their name too. Only one I know of with DIY supplies. Great in a pinch..
Can I use mcormicks flavor extracts?! It's food grade which means it's okay right?
I guess it's something you should try in order to see if it works. Please post your results!
It all tastes like alcohol!!!
This thread makes absolutely no sense. You're here to learn from people who are more experienced than you at a certain craft. And you expect people to spoonfeed you and pander to your every request? The majority of threads here are just noobs trying to hop on the ejuice bandwagon. They ask for clones, or wait for Wayne to release a new recipe so they can sell it as their own.
Just my $.02, if you're searching for diy juice this sub is one of the top results on Google, I'm sure plenty of people come here with no Reddit experience whatsoever. Im fairly new to reddit, I joined when I started vaping because I was looking for a community of people trying to use vapor to quit smoking and I found ECR, and shortly after found this sub. I had no idea what a sidebar was, I've still pretty much only used reddit on my phone, I've read the sidebar multiple times, while my reddit app can view the sidebar it has trouble opening any links on the sidebar and is a real pain in the ass, so most of the time if there's a link I need to read on the sidebar I wade through the full desktop version of reddit on my phone and its a pain in the ass.
Now from a moderators perspective I totally understand. I used to moderate a fairly large mybb hacking forum, the shitposting was horrible and required a good sized team of mods from all different time zones, so we basically had people around the clock deleting "how do I hack Facebook" threads 24/7 (pretty much the equivalent of 100+ new threads a day asking for clone recipes.) I've never moderated a subreddit but I'm sure digging through reported posts and moderator logs is pretty well the same anywhere and yeah it sucks when you're removing the same posts over and over but thats moderating.
The fact is right now we have tons of people here and I see a lot of vitriol and hate over the sidebar and search bar from elitist fucks that it deters people from wanting to post and join in on conversation. I feel like if I say "hey skiddlezninja, how have you been?" Somebody will surely reply "that was just asked last week, use the search function before commenting you fuck." Nobody can say anything at all without getting jumped all over half of the time and I'm sure OP got a good amount of down votes for this post but the amount of upvotes shows that there's more than a couple of people who do think it. The sad thing is there's probably a lot of people who are deterred from making juice at all because they make one post, accidentally missed the one time it was mentioned in the searchbar, didn't search through the entire history of the fucking internet to see if their question was asked before ever, and get flamed to all fuck for it. Everybody starts somewhere.
It's not that I don't appreciate what the mods do or that I dont care about the sub, on the contrary, if I didn't care I wouldn't say anything. I would just like to see this sub be a little more community friendly and a little less like a textbook, but I digress. not my sub, not my call.
(rant start) If I may ever so kindly say something and not get shit on in doing so (as I have in the past with every f*cking post or comment I've posted thus far), I am new to reddit. I'm using the RedditIsFun app. There is no sidebar. I'm sorry if I didn't see the rules as they were not clearly listed when I signed in. I completely agree with wh1skeyk1ng, the older members are Douche bags. I'm about done using reddit, which is funny because my best friend has 6 digits comment karma and loves reddit. So discouraging. If you guys have a problem with newbies such as myself, just tell us to leave. We won't share what we've learned. Reddit can either get friendlier or update the app so the sidebar is actually accessible. Thank you. (rant over)
Every mobile app has a sidebar. It just takes a couple extra steps to find.
Reddit Is Fun: click the "i" in the circle, and the sidebar opens up like this.
EDIT: /u/skiddlzninja This might be a good idea to include in a META stickied post. I came across this doing a google search for Reddit Is Fun show sidebar: https://np.reddit.com/r/SkincareAddiction/comments/1ifs68/guide_accessing_sidebar_from_mobile_apps/
I do see a lot of people on mobile who have no idea how to get to the sidebar, or that there even is one. Let's provide them with the resources they need to find it, and we may see more people using the sidebar.
Thank you. That's actually a helpful comment.
I started with Reddit on desktop and then moved to mobile. I know a lot of people just start on mobile. I remember a discussion in another sub where a user had been on reddit for over a year, only on mobile, and never knew sidebars existed.
I wish the mobile apps did a better job of advertising the sidebars in the subs, but until then it's a learning process.
I'm using sync for reddit app and it's pretty easy to get to the sidebar just swipe left. The problem I'm having with it is any link I click on in the side bar just brings me back to the front page. That's not the individual reddits fault it's the dev's fault for not spending more time on either education or making an app that works just like the desktop version.
You want Reddit to get friendlier yet you are calling people douchebags. Good stuff man.
Reddit themselves don't make any of the apps other than the AMA app, so it's not their fault the sidebar is hard to find. I've used numerous Reddit apps, though, and they all have a sidebar. I personally prefer Relay for Reddit and it has a button at the bottom of the screen that says "sidebar" and makes it very easy to find and read.
Personally, I never use apps in replacement for a full website. I just use my internet browser on my phone/tablet and get the full functionality of the website instead. Using an app like RedditIsFun would probably be fine for browsing through the larger default subs or making the odd comment here and there, but when it comes to the smaller niche subs like this one where I might be posting questions or links, I find it's best to have the full webpage up to be able to see how the community works. The only difference I have using the website on my phone and using my laptop is that I can't get RES for my phone, which makes following links a bit more of a PITA on occasion.
You also have to take into account, that most subs don't really use the sidebar. Most /r/'s sidebars are just filled with mundane and useless shit. This is possibly the only sub I've come across that actually uses the sidebar. Also, a lot of people may be accessing this sub from their phone. Personally, sidebars don't show up on my phone.
Just a little something to think about before you jump down people's throats for not using the sidebar