I've noticed a lot of misinformation being passed around within the new users, and I would like to take this time to address some of it. You're free to argue cases for each myth that I'll be busting, or add your own busted myths, in the comment section. This post is another step I'm taking to strengthen the content of our wiki. If this gets a good response, I hope to cover a topic every week in order to build a more substantial information base for new mixers.
Steeping
This one comes up every day. Someone asks what the best way to steep is, or mentions that they will we speed steeping in a crock pot or some other medium. This is a multi-layer myth. There is no such thing as "speed steeping."† What happens to your juice during a "speed steep" is much like what happens to your wool sweater when "speed drying" instead of hanging it out to dry. You're diminishing your flavors; degrading them with the prolonged exposure to heat. Your flavors are made up of volatiles- chemicals that are already fairly unstable in a solution. By adding heat to these volatiles, you're causing them to change structure entirely. The recommended way to use heat while mixing is to just warm the bottle to about 90F to make the VG thinner and easier to mix. DO NOT KEEP THE BOTTLE WARMER THAN ROOM TEMPERATURE FOR LONG PERIODS.
The next layer of the steeping myth is of course the "best way to steep." This includes ultrasonic steeping, venting(covered later in the post), tumbling, sawsall(or similar power tool) shaking, and good ol' time. The absolute best method for steeping, if you have the funds for it, is to purchase a lab grade homogenizer. These run around $500 on the low quality end, with some high end models being $6000. This is not cost-effective for the hobbyist DIYer. A homogenizer will give you the fastest and most consistent steep of all methods. The best method of steeping for a frugal vaper is just that, steeping(well, aging, but for some reason the term steeping stuck.) This method, you literally age your juice as you would a wine, bourbon, or hot sauce. You take your bottles, put them somewhere cool and dark, and wait. Creams and tobaccos(bold flavors) require a longer steep than fruits and candies("fresh" flavors.) If you are new to DIY, I highly recommend starting with fruit flavors, since patience is definitely a learned trait. Ultrasonic cleaners and power tools would be about the same in my opinion, as both have benefits to the other. US steeping CAN mix your juice better than elliptical shaking(sawsall) but can also damage the smaller volatiles. The power tool methods are less likely to damage the volatiles, but using a non-eliptical power tool will result in a centrifuge, separating the volatiles from the solute.
- TL;DR for the myth: "Speed-steeping" doesn't exist. The best method for steeping is time in a dark room.
Venting
This deserves its own topic just because of how common it is to see new mixers feeling as though it is necessary. I've seen multiple threads in the past week where newbies have been explaining their mixing method, and venting, or leaving a bottle open for a duration of the steep, seems to be a given for them. Venting is not something you should worry about as a new mixer. It's a technique that is required for an extreme minority of flavors, and shouldn't be resorted to unless you have the experience and know without a doubt that your juice needs it. It is one of the fastest ways to ruin an otherwise good flavor. As mentioned earlier, your flavors are volatiles- meaning they readily evaporate at room temperature. By leaving the cap off your bottles, you lose a lot of your smaller volatiles that, believe it or not, make up a lot of your main notes in a juice. As an experienced mixer, there are roughly 3-4 out of my 300+ flavors that I recognize as benefiting from a vent. If you are a new mixer with less than 100 flavors, it's highly unlikely that anything you own requires a vent in order to be useful. You're still at the honeymoon phase of DIY, don't overthink it too much. Just throw your flavors together and work on crafting recipes. You will gain all the knowledge you need on advanced techniques such as venting and agitating(agitating is another form of venting, and not nearly as common) with experience.
- TL;DR for the myth: Venting is an advanced procedure, and runs the risk of ruining your juice. Forget about it until you are experienced enough to identify without a doubt that a flavor needs it.
Sweeteners
I'll be lumping all enhancers and sweeteners together in this topic. This is another subject that I see newbies asking about far too frequently. Enhancers and sweeteners such as triacetin, Zemea, ethyl maltol, maltol, sucralose/stevia, and the FA enhancer line are all considered to be advanced tools. Very rarely will a juice need them, and even more rarely will the person using them know what they're doing. Even I avoid most of the FA enhancers, triacetin, and Zemea. All of these enhancers have a very high chance of ruining your juice if not used correctly. Rarely, if ever, will an experienced mixer give you advice telling you to add one of these to your recipe to make it better. In order to use sweeteners and enhancers properly you need to be a master of your flavors, being able to recognize the flavors by vendor in most juices you taste. On top of mastering your flavors you need to have a firm grasp on crafting nearly complete recipes without having tools available; be able to ad-lib a recipe with base notes, a balanced main flavor, and apparent profile, essentially. Without these two abilities, you're far more likely to try filling a gap in your flavor with an unnecessary enhancer, depriving yourself of useful experience and robbing your end result of the complexity of a well-crafted recipe.
Ethyl Maltol and sucralose are the two most common crutches that I see newbies using and asking about. There is no better way to ruin a recipe than to add too much sweetener. The way you avoid adding too much sweetener is simple; avoid it at all costs. Don't buy it and you won't be tempted to use it. The difference between a recipe that uses the sweet notes of TFA Strawberry at 1% and a recipe that uses EM @.5% is night and day. Recipes that use sucralose and ethyl maltol instead of finding a better source of sweetness taste cheap and lazy. Don't do that to yourself. Take a little extra time and find a way to not use sweeteners. Your recipes will benefit from it greatly and the experience you gain from experimenting is priceless.
- TL;DR for the myth: Don't use sweeteners/enhancers. When you are experienced enough, you will be able to recognize on your own when and where to use them, and when that time comes you can disregard what I tell you here. Until then, DON'T. USE. SWEETENERS.
TFA and FW are bad flavorings
This is something that I've seen pop up in a couple threads only recently. I'm not sure where the myth started, or when it started, but it's exactly that. A myth. These flavors may be the cheap, beginner flavors, but they're far from being bad flavors. They may not have the complexity of INW Wera-Garden flavors, or FA mix flavors, but TFA and FW have been, and likely always will be, a staple in most advanced users' recipes. TFA has some of the best fruit flavors available, and their strawberry flavors are second to none. FW produces some of the most accurate clones of real-world flavors(bananas foster, Red Bull, MtnDew, Swedish Fish) as well as some extremely good basic flavors. I all but worship FW Hazelnut, and TFA Strawberry and Strawberry Ripe are sitting comfortably at the front of my organizer in the 4oz bottles that I refill with the 16oz bottles I buy. They're that good. All flavor manufacturers have flavors that are terrible, and FW and TFA are no excuses, but the amount of great flavors they both produce far outweigh the "TFA Mary Jane" flavors. A good mixer doesn't limit his/herself by excluding all flavors from a manufacturer just because they have a couple duds. TFA is also the only manufacturer that discloses the ingredients of a large majority of their proprietary mixes, with looming regulations, this is an invaluable tool and hopefully an example of what the flavoring industry will become. http://shop.perfumersapprentice.com/specsheetlist.aspx for those that are curious.
TL;DR for the myth: No, they are not bad flavorings.
More Flavoring = More Flavor
>Aroma volatiles give the impression of a flavor in generally a very specific range of PPM in concentrate. Going over that range can change the flavor.
>For example, the aroma volatile of jasmine is the identical aroma volatile of feces at higher concentration. Also, the aroma volatile of butter flavor is the identical aroma of vomit at higher concentration.
>Flavor concentrates are typically built with 3-12 different individual volatiles, so adding more concentrate to a mix may end up increasing some or all those volatiles into the feces/vomit range and then you end up with problems.
>Whenever I think I found a great mix, I'll actually try that mix again with less total flavor to see if it still works. Helps to reduce vaper's tongue and also is easier on the wallet. Some of my mixes ended up being cut in half or more. Some professional eliquids I like are diluted by me by 25-60% before I vape them as they're overflavored!
-/u/abdada
TL;DR for the myth: More flavoring doesn't mean more flavor.
Pro Thread. Seriously though. If you're a new mixer, and you're looking for that "commercial" taste. Play with FW and TFA flavors and then load it with sucralose. I'm not kidding.
Don't forget CAP. But this is one of the rare cases where sweetener is required. Still wouldn't recommend it to newbies, since doing DIY without sweetener for like, 2 weeks is enough to make any commercial juices taste like straight shit.
oh...that's why i can't stand anything sold in a store anymore.
Yep. I mixed my own Honey Pearry sometime last year when I had a bottle of the real stuff. My version was spot on, flavor-wise, at least as far as I could remember it. So I opened the bottle of the real stuff and threw it in there and holy fuck. Gave me a headache, it was so damn sweet.
I know what you mean I got into diy fairly quickly after starting vaping with the intent of saving money (then fell down the hole everyone talks about) but after making clones of a lot of juices I hadn't tried I saw said juices in the shops and bought them thinking id treat myself only to be very disappointed did this 2 or 3 times and now just can't be arsed to waste my money anymore.
Still very new to mixing, but wouldn't it be beneficial to mention that some flavors have sweeteners in them?
Sweetener is required for cap? I like sweet strawberry (cap) + strawberry ripe tfa for that candy strawberry taste. I couldn't imagine adding more sweetener.
Pretty much my DIY history so far in a nutshell.
Started out loading my mixes with EM, chasing that "commercial" taste.
Many iterations later I'm now using about half as much flavor, no additives and the results are phenomenal compared to what I used to make.
Whenever I try most of the premium blends nowadays its just an oversweetened mess.
My problem is after smoking so long, I cannot taste flavors well enough to like ANY premium juices. But I found if I add sucralose to any juice, the flavors are all intensified and I can then tell if I truly like , dislike, or love a juice. That being said, after 3 years of making my own juice, I have become spoiled . Every time I try a premium juice, I am let down. Recently tried Bloobies by Doughboys. Just like the rest, it had that same old taste I pick up on from all commercial liquids, and was bland. Brought it home, added 6% sucralose, and blam!!! It is amazing! But then I am one of those " Would you like some coffee with your sugar " guys. Taste is subjective, don't count out what a little sweetener can do. It's like salt on a steak, it's a flavor enhancer. And I would never eat a steak without salt, but that's just me!
Before too many experts show up and ruin this mythbusting party:
Yes, /u/skiddlzninja knows everything he said isn't true. None of the "rules" apply to experienced or professional mixers who have learned their craft and how to manage volatiles in complex arrangements.
But everything he said holds true for anyone that's likely to ask these questions - in most cases, it's bad for new mixers to stray from the common path until they have the experience to recognize why the path exists, and why straying might be a useful strategy.
I think he's trying to head off the suggestions of open steeping their first batch in a clothes dryer, not prevent people from experimenting.
Completely agree with the sweeteners. So many juice lines I try at B&Ms are just overpoweringly sugary. One of my favorite juices (a watermelon lime) I haven't bought more than once because it was just so sweet.
You ever had any of the Dripper's Corner juices? My god, they're so full of sweetener it is disgusting. Killed my cotton in less than 8 hours of moderate vaping.
Oh me, oh my! Im guna make myself a watermellon lime pie!
Okay.. I'm not making it a pie flavor.. I just wanted to rhyme lol Thanks for that flavor combo!
Making it a pie flavor wouldn't be half bad based off my imagination. You could make it a key-lime pie sort of thing with a touch of watermelon...
A great writeup, answering a lot of the questions that I really wish weren't even asked in here. I suspect you were writing it earlier when you commented on my terse attempt to deliver a similar message.
Excellent writeup, however, PEG is NOT an enhancer, unless you want to enhance your bowel movements by eating the stuff.
1,3-propanediol, AKA Dupont's Zemea would be an enhancer(or PG alternative)
Shit, completely fucked up on that one. That's what I get for doing unrelated research in the middle of writing a thread. I'll fix it ASAP. Thanks
Lol been there, done that. You're gucci, mane.
I love 1,3-prop -- you can also get it under the name Nature Silk.
Also, you are not limited to 20% flavoring. We've seen numerous vendors post recipes that exceed this number. Don't let it hinder your creativity.
Thanks for saying this. While some recipes clearly benefit by being at 12% flavoring, some benefit from more than 20%. I feel like the trend is going towards the lower side, regardless of whether it's appropriate or not. If we were trying to clone that Adirondack Algonquin recipe that they gave out a week or two ago, the clone would have ended up about 15% flavoring, and have no "additives"… while the actual recipe calls for 28% flavoring and 3% EM. Not that more is always better… but less isn't always right either.
You and I should have a (private) conversation on aging. I am possibly 180° from your thought process. I'd like to do an experiment to see where the truth lies. Results could be a very interesting post for the sub.
So you're the one! I heard one of the mods was a fan of the hot steep.
Yep. I use a coffee warmer and most of my mixes cure/age (I hate steep) for 8 to 48 hours on that bastard. I have my theories on why it's better. I want skids and I to do a controlled experiment on the process. Want to be in on it?
cough cough https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BkOE-blQBtc
Would love to see more science being done on it tho.
I'm going to make a post if anyone wants to join our experiment.
Would love to join in on it. Going to make a large batch of Mustard Milk soon, and a bit of it will be heat-steeped in a slow cooker at the right temp (that's dropped out of my mind at the moment), some will just be shook and stand, one will be breathed a little bit, and one will just stand and shook when I'm going to sample it.
Do we have some good kind of scale for rating how much the flavours have blended together, harshness and other stuff? Excel-documents and control tests?
Funny, I've been through the sidebar enough times to already know everything in this thread. So.. I'm getting the impression people arn't reading the side bar very well..
Well, there is a ton of information in the sidebar, people are destined to forget some of it. I'm trying to address the most common flubs that I see people making, and give in-depth reasoning for why they are flubs.
Thank you for the explanation about heat/crock pot steeping ruining your juice. As someone who understands chemistry very well, I never understood how mods even allowed this to be posted anywhere in this sub as a legitimate way to steep your juice. Is there any way this (mis)information could get added into the sidebar?
As a side note, it's very similar to forgetting your juice in your car on a hot day... Completely changes the flavor of the juice and will likely make it end up in the trash.
> Thank you for the explanation about heat/crock pot steeping ruining your juice
Really, if you are mixing a bottle to instantly use and only heat it for a little bit it might enhance it. Def makes it easier to shake it up if its warmed. I wouldn't leave it in a crock pot for 5 hours, but for 15 min or in a hot water in the sink or something I don't see how it would hurt it.... especially if you arent even going to have the juice for more than a few days.
> Whenever I think I found a great mix, I'll actually try that mix again with less total flavor to see if it still works.
Excellent advice. When I get a mix I think is a winner, I like to scale everything so the lowest ingredient is at .25% and remix. Generally, the new version delivers more nuance and flavor definition - and the overall flavor level doesn't perceptually decrease.
I am by no means good at this stuff but... I also try to keep my percentages to a minimum. What do you find you end up with total on average? Im like 3-9. 3 being one with some INW
I always cheer a bit when I have a good recipe around 10%, but I wouldn't call it a goal.
As mentioned in this thread I have always found juices I buy in shop to be waaaaay to strong in flavor but mmostly entirely too sweet. I use EM and sucralose but at 1% or less. Most things I mix have sweet strawberry in them or double wm and I find I don't need it. However, it seems that EM makes some things less harsh. Again I'm not very good at this and for the life of me I cannot figure out "smooth". Anyway thanks.
Loved it. Especially the steeping part.
A couple of weeks ago I asked what could've been the reason why my diy juices were losing flavour. I was going nuts ! I thought my days as a mixer were over.
Turned out that ALL my bottles (Diy and bought) were in the same boat. What happened was that the place were I was keeping them was right in front of the room heater. And after 3 months all they became was VG. So keep them in a cool place away from sunlight as much as possible and if you age them instead of steeping in these conditions, you will make your juice last longer.
Don't be me. Lol.
Edit: Forgot to add that I threw away around 20 bottles of 30 ml juices (some started some not ) and I'm also going to give a use (candles) to the flavourings that were being stored in the same cabinet. I don't want to use these in ejuice because they might be not as good as others stored propertly.
I'm afraid I strongly disagree with your comments on speed steeping. I've done a lot of experiments with both speed steeping and venting. Some recipes will absolutely be ruined by heated steeping. Anything with FW Coumarin Pipe Tobacco will taste like 180 Proof cat piss if you heat that at all.
Other recipes, especially those with custards and pastry flavors, benefit from heated steeps. It doesn't matter if you're "diminishing your flavors" if you've mixed them with the steeping in mind. You can drop the steep time down from a month to matter of days. I've found the most effect method of steeping custards and pastries is 12-24 hours in 140°F water, using a milk frother every 6 hours. Then let it sit for 3 days at room temperature. It is truly the equivalent of a month long natural steep.
I urge you to reconsider including this at all in a "mythbuster" post. I like the idea of mythbusting, because there is far too much misinformation in the community, but this isn't helping matters to make blanket statements like: >"Speed-steeping" doesn't exist
I will say that in my experiments I came to find Ultrasonic steeping to be extremely deleterious to flavor. Many flavors get nasty from Ultrasonic steeping and this should not be encouraged in new mixers (as it was when I started).
I appreciate your experience, but will also disagree with your rebuttal. Heat steeping may indeed produce a vapeable product faster, but it greatly diminishes the life of the juice. This is why I say speed-steeping is a myth. Steeping as it is produces an ideal product with a shelf life of 6 months to a year. The most I've been able to get out of a "speed-steeped" juice is 2 months before it became garbage. This also seems to be the concensus with most experienced mixers with whom I've discussed this, you being the only exception. If you have more information on your methods and results, I'd be more than happy to hear them.
> Heat steeping may indeed produce a vapeable product faster, but it greatly diminishes the life of the juice.
Just a question on that statement. What if you're the type (like me) who only makes multiple small batches at a time and vapes through them fairly quickly? I don't have ADVs. And don't ever intend to have a juice last more than a month or so. Is "speed steeping" only an issue for when you want a juice to last for extended periods of time? I understand the flavor isn't as good as regular aging/curing..but it's still vapeable for the average joe vaper.
I think you should make it clear that this is based on your own experienced. Most flavour compounds should not degrade slightly above room temperature and this slight increase is likely to have a huge increase in the rate of whatever chemical change is happening during steeping.
I've heard of this phenomenon but it has never been an issue in my own DIY. Which is to say, I vape even 120mL too fast to let it sit for 2 months. You have piqued my curiousity though and I will try to keep from using up my latest batch to see how it is in March.
In the meantime, let's assume that all of the anecdotal evidence is correct. I can see how it would be a problem for commercial juice production, but if you're doing commercial quantities you could/would/(and probably)should be using an homogenizer.
I don't think this justifies the blanket statement for DIY and certainly not for new DIY mixers. New mixers shouldn't be worrying about year long shelf-lives; they want tasty, and they want it now!
> It doesn't matter if you're "diminishing your flavors" if you've mixed them with the steeping in mind.
So, you're saying that when you know you're going to speed steep a recipe, you bump all the percentages up to account for the diminished flavor? That just seems like a waste, but then again I've never done an experiment of comparing speed steeping versus just letting it sit.
Yes, but it works out if you start with the premise, "Fuck me, working with custard is such a pain... I don't want to wait a month to steep this on each iteration."
If you start off steeping with the base iteration and move on from there your percentages move accordingly. It does mean slightly higher percentages, but only slightly.
My best result in this line of research was on my Matthew McConauKKK which topped out at 15.75% flavoring. So that's a high percentage of flavors, but not insane.
Adding more of a flavor doesn't necessarily equate to a stronger version of the same flavor. Volatiles are not created equally in respect to how they leave the bottle over time, or how they react to heat, or in how they act on the palette in different quantity.
Mixing is chemistry, not baking.
Oh I'm fully aware that more flavoring =/= better or a stronger version of the flavor. I've made my fair share of those kind of mistakes in the 6 months that I've been mixing. I was just curious if I was correct in assuming that by keeping speed steeping in mind and knowing that some volatiles were going to escape due to the heat, he boosted his percentages to account for that. Personally I don't even mess with speed steeping.
Sticky this, please?
Very good to know, thanks for putting the thought into this post!
The sticky is all /u/kirkt's business. We dare not incur his wrath by stickying.
Yes please /u/kirkt :)
I will be getting into DIY soon and definitely will need to go back to this excellent write ups
i hath read this, i used EM in the first 2 months of making eliquid, but no mas
You are the best. I think I love you
Thanks man, saving this post. I've been lurking for a while and bought some diy stuff. My juices just never felt or tasted the same way as premium juice, not even close to be honest. Got discouraged and stopped for a while. Maybe I'll give it a shot again after reading this.
The best advice I can give you is to forget about trying to make "premium" juice. Just make flavors that sound good to you, and find one that you enjoy. After about 2 weeks of vaping DIY instead of premium, your tastes get used to not having the extreme amounts of sweetener in premium juice. When we say that we can't vape premium juices anymore because they are all overly sweetened, we mean it 100%.
Regular blender is actually a cheap homogenizer. The only con is that you need to mix at least 50 to 100ml at once (depending on tank size). But it's cheap and very effective. Blend your mix for five to ten minutes, let it rest for another 20-30 and you have a 100% ready juice!
From what /u/abdada has told me of his homogenizer, it's quite a bit more complex than a blender. It's more similar to forcing liquids in a reservoir through a very small opening and having pressure force the particles into solution. Hopefully he'll respond to this page and inform both of us.
A regular blender also brings air into the mix whereas a homogenizer doesn't churn the top of the liquid as much.
My homogenizer slam molecules together with incredible force. I use one probe to mix oil and vinegar and the emulsion stays together for a very long time while a blender emulsion falls apart bear instantly.
Homogenizers also don't heat up the mix like a blender can.
Lastly the homogenizer can be used right in a bottle whereas a blender needs transferring and you have a huge opening at the top for all the tasty top notes to escape from.
As far as I know, homogenizers vary in function. Mortar and pestle is also a homogenizer :) And there are plenty of lab grade homogenizers which can heat and blend solutions and also offer pressure control inside the chamber. Blender might not be the ideal solution for juice mixing if you have lots of spare money, but I believe it is the best budget option for DIY. A lot better than long term heating or ultra-sonic cleaner (btw, there are ultra-sonic homogenizers which work exactly the same as cleaners).
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Awsome thread. I will say though that similar results to the homogenizer would be this obviously not good for selling juice but for your own use i dont see why not. Its the same idea. Anyways carry on. Great post.
What about the effect on nicotine when venting or steeping? O2 causes nicotine to burden and go bad Much of what I read from nicotine manufacturers / suppliers states to lessen the amount of O2 contact as much as possible. Hence control rooms & special handling procedures etc. when dealing with nicotine. Short, O2 makes nicotine go bad and can be poisonous over time from prolonged O2 exposure. Can anyone school me on this?
O2 causes nicotine to oxidize, introducing a cardboard-esque flavor, dead fish scent, and heavy throat hit. I'm not sure if there is an increase toxicity as nicotine oxidizes into nicotine oxide, vitamin B3, and methylamine(I'll try and do some research on these and get back to you).
Yes, O2 is extremely bad for your nicotine, as is heat and UV light. This is why we recommend storing nicotine in amber glass bottle with at least a polycone cap in some sort of fridge or freezer. The measures we take are to prevent nicotine from tasting bad, or becoming harsh; no one really mentions toxicity.
When you say "enhancers", do you mean concentrates such as Joy? I've seen plenty of recipes using that, and a lot of people say its almost a must have for bakery type flavors.
No, joy isn't an enhancer. I'm talking FA bitter wizard, FA MTS vapewizard, FA Flash, etc...
> FA MTS vapewizard
I tried some of this and maybe its me but it doesnt matter if it was 25% flavoring... like one drop of this shit in a 30ml kills the taste of everything. I bought it to test out but it seems like straight garbage to me.
Hey, thanks for the post! I've got a problem - my juices began to taste harsh, though I didn't change any ingredients. Can it be PG\VG\nic? Or maybe it's just me and vaping at -25C (quite cold here in Russia) isn't a good idea?
Just to be clear: The speed-steeping myth also applies to purchased e-liquids, yeah?
It seems obvious to me, but figured it wouldn't do any harm to make sure before I start citing it to newbies on v101.
Have you seen user /u/michdavinci posts from 9 to 8 months ago?
He conducted double blinded testing with speed steeping, and found multiple methods that do work, some better than others.
www.reddit.com/user/michdavinci/submitted/?sort=new Start from the bottom of the list.
NewAmsterdamVape also did a blind testing, and /u/kirkt had an outline to do one, but I'm not sure if he ever finished.
Also, this user didn't mention any results from further along the life of the juice. If you want to make something unvapeable into something that you can stand, a heat steep is fine. However, if you want to take something from unvapeable to fantastic, time is the only way to go. Accelerated steeping methods are just that, accelerating. They don't "jump" forward a couple weeks in the steeping time, they shorten the overall lifetime of the juice, and the steeping time is simply a fraction of that lifetime. By shortening the lifetime, you shorten the steeping time of the juice.
I can see that, especially for heat treatments.
What was interesting to me though, was the brass tumbler that worked rather well. Essentially an agitation method, although a bit more "randomized" than simple shaking. I don't see how tumbling could significantly reduce juice life.
That said, a $80 rock or brass tumbler is a significant investment for a marginal reduction in steep time, I wouldn't recommend everyone rush out and buy one.
I'll have to check those other users entries, thank you.
One thing I think would be helpful to add is about mixing by volume vs drops vs weight. Mixing by volume or drops is not going to give you good consistency batch to batch. This is especially true for small test batches from my experience.
The purpose of this thread is dispelling misconceptions that I often see new mixers have.
Yeah the misconception/myth is that you can get consistency batch to batch using drops and volume measurements.
If you know how to properly read a meniscus, then volume measurement gives you just as much consistency from batch to batch as mixing by weight does. For me, the benefit of mixing by weight is how much quicker it is once all your ingredients are in dropper bottles. Easier clean up is also a plus.
I've been mixing with syringes for well over a year now, and have never had consistency problems; my juice always tastes the same. I think you're blowing it a little out of proportion. As long as someone is experienced with their tools, they can get a good result.