As some of you may know, I created r/concentrade a few months ago. For those that don't know, the sub was created to have a place for people to trade flavor concentrates (or possibly supplies, if requested) instead of being buried in a random thread. This all started from seeing a lot of comments from users saying there are flavors they bought that they didn't like and will likely go to waste. There are plenty of us who love flavors that others may hate. A lot of us started DIY to save money so it's not especially frugal to keep buying flavors that might go to waste, when other users have the same problems, maybe even with flavors you might enjoy.
I didn't create this to become insanely popular, but rather as a potentially money-saving venture for newer and even experienced mixers. However, at the moment, the sub only has a handful of posts. I mostly take the blame for this. I don't feel right advertising the sub, but I would love for you guys to find this useful.
At the moment, the reason I don't advertise the sub is because I'm mostly worried about people taking advantage of the community and users being ripped off. I would feel absolutely terrible if that happened to someone and I would likely shut down the sub if this happened. This is where I need your help.
The only real solution for this that I've came up with is being the "middle-man" of sorts. I would be willing to be the recipient for both packages, verify the products that were listed, provide pictures of the contents to both users, then send the packages on to the proper user once I have both packages in hand. Some people might be turned off by this, but as some of you know, I'm on here daily. I have a reputation of sorts to uphold.
I understand that some people still wouldn't feel comfortable with this situation, so this is where I need your input. If the above scenario wouldn't be comfortable to you, what method would you prefer to prevent having a bad transaction?
As I said, I'm not attempting to advertise too much, but I also want the sub to grow and be a service that a lot of you would find extremely useful, especially for those with a tight budget for flavors and supplies. Please let me know if you guys would find this useful, and how you might improve upon it. Also let me know if you would find it annoying to see "try r/concentrade!" in the comments here when someone says they have flavors they won't use. Everything will be taken into consideration! Gracias, amigos.
Anytime you trade online it's a risk and that's just that. It doesn't reflect on you as the creator of the sub if something goes wrong...it's a risk.
Make it the same as the classies, with the trade verified deal and let people build up trust with the community. Maybe instead of being the "middleman" police the sub for throw-away accounts or folks who don't ever participate in the DIY sub and either delete the risky posts or just "middleman" those. Otherwise as the sub grows you're going to make yourself batshit with packages.
And...advertise that shit, otherwise how else is anyone supposed to know it's there?
Thanks for setting it up, it's a great idea/resource for saving some money.
I plan on setting up a verification flair system like in the classifieds, but probably just do that manually instead of a bot for now. Thanks for the suggestion!
Using a middleman would mean shipping it twice. Are you paying to ship it from you to the final destination? Also is a middleman truly necessary for a 30-60ml trade? I could definitely see the benefit of a middleman with a big trade, but it would become very inconvenient for everyone involved for smaller trades I think.
Yes, I would cover shipping from my house to the destination. Users would just pay initial shipping to my house.
I'm honestly not sure on the small trades. I hadn't really thought about that. I may leave that up to the user. If they feel comfortable shipping directly to the other person, they're more than welcome to do so. In fact, any person is obviously welcome to ship direct. The shipping to me suggestion was just for the people who don't feel comfortable. I would just warn those who choose to direct ship that they would hold no one responsible for a bad trade.
I'm actually planning on posting a trade when I get the time...
I would trust you to be the middle man, that's not an issue.. I just question whether it's worth it for YOU. Seems like you would be out quite a bit of money ($5 per transaction?) - not to mention the time & energy invested.
I agree with other comments here.. Trade verification flair and a PSA about the risks involved. Maybe a account age and karma requirement.
You know, I may just sticky a PSA about the risks involved, and state that if a user isn't comfortable sending their packages directly to another user they don't know, then I'll gladly be the middle-man. I don't mind eating a few bucks for shipping costs if that's what they want to do.
Hello, NCM!
What a fine idea you've come up with ; )
In all seriousness, I do believe that using the middleman set-up would be the safest and most preventative course of action. Glad to see the ball (hopefully) rolling.
Good luck!
edit: advertise the shit outta the sub.
Yeah, I think that might be the best course of action at least until people have verified trades and/or are comfortable sending directly to the user. Sure, I'll be spending my own money for shipping, but I don't mind that until things get settled in and it becomes more active.
You rule.
Let me know what flavors you want so you'll send me some of that sweet, sweet, apparently unobtainable INW biscuit ;)
<3
I think the middle-man idea would be extremely expensive for you.
I've added comments saying how I'll go about it now. I agree it could get expensive, but I wouldn't mind doing it for those who request it.
Honestly a $2-$5 buy in for trading is not unreasonable. Pay $2 shipping to you then they pay you $2 shipping. In the end shipping out $5 for back stock is not terrible for getting so much more back. I know charging sounds greedy to some but it's well worth the service you provide. No where else can I do this and feel that much more secure. Or like a security deposit type of transaction could be extremely helpful. I know your a good guy and this all seems excessive, but for all the people who would actually participate and not take advantage of, this is all a completely reasonable cost of the trade.
I don't want to see you get fucked over. Covering your ass will be super important and if there is anything I can do to help you out please let me know.
I think it is a great idea. I know buying too much is common and I would hate to see anything expire. I am not sure the middle-man idea will be a good use of your time. Tough to get right but optimistic.
I wouldn't want to do it if the sub ends up getting a huge amount of trades. It would just be overwhelming. Until something more solid and trustworthy gets put in place, it's the only safe thing I can think of.
It might make more sense to hold an amount of funds for the cost of replacing concentrates+shipping that get lost in the mail, stolen, or never sent. That way there's no double shipping cost. And the funds get returned once both people verify the transaction went smoothly?
Like a paypal escrow account, interesting idea. Would paypal charge a fee for that?
I'd imagine if enough transactions happened within a certain time frame, paypal would eventually flag the account in some way.
I like this idea, but handling other people's money scares me. If anything weird happened with the transaction, I would be at fault and I don't like thinking about the extra stress with that haha.
As I replied to someone earlier, I may just sticky a PSA about the risks involved (lost package, douchebag user, etc.) and state that I would gladly be the middle-man if they would rather do that to insure the trade was legitimate. I wouldn't mind doing that on all trades, but a lot of us know each other and have seen trusted people every day on here. I don't really have an issue with trading personally, but some people might want to be absolutely sure they're not being ripped off. I would hope this wouldn't be an issue, but we all know that people can be assholes just to be assholes.
true. quickly browsing someone's history on r/diy_ejuice would be more than enough to alleviate any concerns. 0 posts on here and we got no deal. worse case scenario you get shafted something you didn't want anymore anyway.
Love this idea. While I commend the intention behind being the middleman, I do not wish that upon you. I think there are some basic precautions and disclaimers that could be put in place and after that it's at your own risk. Will be back for more ideas when I'm at a computer, just didn't wanna lose this thread.
I've added comments saying how I'll be going forward with it. I'm going to add a PSA sticky and make sure people understand the risks involved, and offer to be the middle-man for those who request it. I think that would be a fair way to go about things. If you know the other user, or aren't too concerned about losing a 30ml through a botched trade, it shouldn't be necessary to go through me. I think I was maybe being a bit ambitious :)
Great idea, anyone want some tfa honey? If I was in the same country as most of you guys I'd definitely join that sub.
Where are you noodles1972? Canada here. If the sub succeeds I could see it expand to Country specific sections? *I have enough TFA Honey tks :D
I'm not going to keep the postings to US only, but if you're out of country, hopefully you can find someone in your country on there if you specify. Canada seems to be growing on here.
That is what I assumed you would have in store. I love the idea. Medicine flower for example - here I found a Canadian source but, to find 3-6 other DIYers to share each flavour with... that is another challenge. This would be a great place for that. FA NorthAmerica bulk orders? Just some ideas.
I love this idea. I personally think it would be very stressful for you to have to be the middle man. I think i like the idea of maybe you offering that "service" for larger trades? But then again, that's more shipping costs on your end.
One question - are you planning on keeping it trades only or are subscribers allowed to sell? (sorry if that answer is in the side bar... I'm on mobile)
And as others have said - Yes! Advertise this! That's the only way I see having enough subscribers to get more than just offeres for honey ;)
I think for now, I might just sticky a post about the risks involved and if the users would rather me be the middle-man, I'll gladly do that.
I don't care at all if you guys want to post things for sale. I won't personally be handling any finances mostly due to my hatred of PayPal, but everyone is more than welcome to post anything they have to offer. The only exception would probably be something like "looking for a good strawberry. Have $2". That's just...yeah.
That being said, I'm not going to be doing any sort of removing of posts unless it's something like that. I don't think the sub really needs heavy policing for what it is.
I think post the PSA of risks involved and let everyone choose for themselves if they want to trade or not. It would really be no different than a buy/sell/trade group and having to police the sales. It's not really your responsibility to worry about.
I understand your concerns, but, the "normal" person should really already be aware that there will always be risks involved when doing transactions with strangers. I'd hate to see you getting overwhelmed with all the middleman stuff, especially the expense part of it. Although it's extremely gracious of you to offer, I really don't think u should take on that responsibility. just my opinion
Advertise the crap of it, and it will grow on it's own. It's easy enough to spot the throw away accounts for the most part. Is there any way to set it up that people need to be approved before they are able to join, or can anyone just join? That way, you could at least pre-check each "add" before they are actually admitted, that could help a little up front. Anyway, neat idea, and hopefully most that use it will be honest.
Edit to add: Hey maybe make it a requirement for each trader to post an actual pic of what they are wanting to trade, close up shot. ?? Or at the very least you could stick in the PSA to exchange photo's in their emails etc. I duno, just a thought.
I had thought about making it private for now, but decided against it. Not sure why, really. Private subs have just always bugged me for some reason. I don't know. Maybe. I do like the idea of posting pictures before shipment. I'll definitely incorporate this as a guideline. I'll also probably suggest the user get a receipt upon shipment and PM a picture of the receipt to the recipient. I know how much it sucks to get ripped off on a trade, and I'd really like to prevent that by any means. Obviously I can't 100% guarantee that, but it'd be nice to try to eliminate the risk as much as possible. Thanks for your input!
The "trusting" part of the deal is the only part that i am unsure about , having a middleman is a real nice option.
On the other hand it seems unless your trading a very large quantity there isn't much $$ to be lost if something did go bad .
I have about 5 10 ml sample bottles to trade which is pretty minor , i would think most trades will be small and just stuff someone ordered and found out they didn't like .
My main concern isn't that I wont get my package, but I really don't want secondhand flavors. You don't really know how long the person has had the flavors or the storage time, and they can always lie. Also it's normally very basic flavors (TFA Strawberry) looking for more expensive/rarer flavors