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My process of cloning a food recipe [Ambrosia/Ambition]
submitted almost 10 years ago by Python4funProud Sidebar Reader!

I started at google with a search for 'ambrosia recipe which yielded the recipe from Alton Brown and 2 suggested searches yielded these:

What is ambrosia:

Ambrosia is a variation on the traditional fruit salad. Most ambrosia recipes contain fresh or sweetened pineapple, mandarin oranges or fresh orange sections, miniature marshmallows, and coconut. Other ingredients can include maraschino cherries, bananas, strawberries, peeled grapes, or crushed pecans.

How to make ambrosia:

Add the sour cream and whisk to combine. Add the marshmallows, orange, pineapple, coconut, pecans and cherries and stir to combine. Transfer to a glass serving bowl, cover and place in the refrigerator for 2 hours before serving.

Recipe from Alton Brown

  • 1/2 cup heavy cream
  • 1 tablespoon sugar
  • 4 ounces sour cream
  • 6 ounces homemade mini marshmallows, approximately 3 cups
  • 1 cup clementine orange segments, approximately 6 clementines
  • 1 cup chopped fresh pineapple
  • 1 cup freshly grated coconut
  • 1 cup toasted, chopped pecans
  • 1/2 cup drained maraschino cherries

I converted this all to cups here;

  • 1/2 cup heavy cream
  • 0.0616115 cup sugar
  • 0.492892 cup sour cream
  • 3 cups mini marshmallows, approximately 3 cups
  • 1 cup clementine orange segments
  • 1 cup chopped fresh pineapple
  • 1 cup freshly grated coconut
  • 1 cup toasted, chopped pecans
  • 1/2 cup drained maraschino cherries

Flavor Selection

  • Heavy Cream and Sugar would obviously translate into Sweet Cream (or maybe VBIC)

  • Sour Cream is a little more difficult. After looking through popular creams I thought of Butter Cream, but when looking into pecan flavors I Think that I'll use butter pecan (FW) and get the richness of sour cream with the pecan flavor together. It may be good to involve some butter or another rich cream that I don't know about.

  • The lack of toasted pecan flavoring leads me to choose Toasted Marshmallow to get the toasted touch.

  • With orange my gut says Mandarin, just personal preference and the ambrosia that I grew up with. I see that Orange Mandarin(TPA) is popular.

  • Pineapple makes me think sweet almost like candy and I recall reading that golden pineapple is that kind of flavor so I'll pick CAP Golden Pineapple.

  • Coconut Candy(TPA) is in the top 5 most used, and sounds good to me (and I've seen ambrosia recipes that use it)

  • Marashcino Cherry(TPA) is the #3 most used in cherry flavors and it's in the recipe.

  • Now I have seen some people use Pina Colada in Ambrosia recipes and I think that it'll help to bring the flavors together. I still plan on using the individual flavors to accent the pina colada as well, this flavor will just be a bit of glue to hold things together (TPA) is popular and seems to fit the overall pattern so we'll pick that one.

  • I had originally set out to be cloning THRST - Ambition liquid before deciding that a great Ambrosia would suffice, so I think that I will use some yogurt. Yogurt may be able to give me the bit of what I may be otherwise missing in the sour cream bit, especially a greek yogurt. We will decide on Greek Yogurt (TPA) as the butter pecan will bring it back to sweet.

So now I have this list: PLEASE SUGGEST ANY RECOMMENDED CHANGES

the only one of these flavors that I have used is the toasted marshmallow

  • TPA Greek Yogurt
  • FW Butter Pecan
  • TPA Toasted Marshmallow
  • TPA Orange Mandarin
  • CAP Golden Pineapple
  • TPA Coconut Candy
  • TPA Maraschino Cherry

The next bit that's important is finding the percentages that are most common (as a jumping off point) for each flavor both as a single flavor and in a mix. After getting these we will scale these values by the food recipe.

Food recipe will be adopted like this

  • Greek Yogurt = heavy cream and sour cream
  • butter pecan = sugar and pecans
  • the rest is straight forward

The next part I used an Excel spreadsheet to run some numbers. In addition to the calculations listed, I also found the sum total of each column to eyeball a decent overall flavor percentage.

I find the sum total of food ingredients and then divide each ingredient amount by the total to get the % of total flavor. This us going to be used as a method of judging/scaling from the ELR percentages

I then get the Mean and median values for each flavor used as a single flavor and as a mix. I averaged the mean and median to get a better (in my opinion) ball park for each. Then I also got minimum and maximum values for using in a mix. I made columns using the scaling factor from above (gotten from food recipe) and the values from ELR. My gut said to use the meanscale values for single flavor, but those give a flavor total of 7.486% so I just look across the totals for each column and find 3 that seem to have potential. the Medianscaling for single flavor has 8.763 % total. The minimum amount (for a mix, from elr) of each flavor gives a 16.7% total and the average of mean and median (for a mix from ELR) gives a total of 27.35%. Initially I think that the 16.7 sounds best to me but I don't want to discredit the 8.763 total as I believe that these flavors are going to be pretty powerful together (just my gut here)

Thre are now 3 recipes to try

The 8.76 % Total (basesd on median single flavor value and scaling factor)

  • 0.46 Greek Yogurt TPA

  • 0.99 Butter Pecan FW

  • 3.51 Toasted Marshmallow TPA

  • 1.17 Orange Mandarin TPA

  • 1.17 Golden Pineapple CAP

  • 1.17 Coconut Candy TPA

  • 0.30 Marschino Cherry TPA The 16.7% recipe (based on minimum value in a mix)

  • 2.5 Greek Yogurt TPA

  • 4 Butter Pecan FW

  • 2 Toasted Marshmallow TPA

  • 4 Orange Mandarin TPA

  • 2 Golden Pineapple CAP

  • 1 Coconut Candy TPA

  • 0.2 Marschino Cherry TPA and lastly the 27.35% total from average of mean and median used in a mix

  • 4.85 Greek Yogurt TPA

  • 4.4 Butter Pecan FW

  • 2.55 Toasted Marshmallow TPA

  • 4.7 Orange Mandarin TPA

  • 4.45 Golden Pineapple CAP

  • 3 Coconut Candy TPA

  • 3.4 Marschino Cherry TPA

TL;DR: I went ADD on creating a clone recipe that I haven't tried yet. I will work on putting these three on ELR at lunch and I will link them here.

Edit: Added links to the recipes on ELR

Edit: NEW VERSION FROM COMMENTS Ambrosia / Ambition V2

Ingredient|% :---|---: Almond (TPA)|2 Cherries (INAWERA)|1 Coconut (FA)|1.5 Cream Fresh (FA)|1 Greek Yogurt (TPA)|4.3 Mandarin (FA)|1.5 Marshmallow (FA)|1.5 Pecan (TPA)|2.5 Pineapple (INAWERA)|1.5

Flavor total: 16.8%

Edit: I'm finally ordering the flavors for the V2 and will report back after I have mixed this. Thanks to all that commented and helped along the way. Part 2

Comments
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10 points
 
by dbbldz123almost 10 years ago

damn that is really thorough and a lot of preparation for a first draft of a recipe I just throw some shit together make some lazy notes and see what happens but respect the hustle.

3 points
 
by Python4funalmost 10 years agoProud Sidebar Reader!

Well, I don't have most of the flavors and I'm at work and can't put anything together, also was slightly bored and wanted a mini project.

3 points
 
by dbbldz123almost 10 years ago

it's great

2 points
 
by Python4funalmost 10 years agoProud Sidebar Reader!

Thanks

9 points
 
by TheNebulousMindalmost 10 years ago

Really like the thought processes going on here!

I think Greek Yogurt (TPA) would work in place of sour cream, no other ingredients needed. I actually use them in place of each other in real everyday cooking, and Greek Yogurt (TPA) really does taste like either of the two.

I think butter pecan will give a totally different profile than what you are looking for. You might be better off with Pecan (TPA) and using Toasted Almond (TPA) together as it will hit the more nuttier toasted notes you seem to be looking for.... If you did this you would need to find a new marshmallow flavor and Marshmallow (FA) would probably suit your needs.

Mandarin (FA) is a very highly rated flavor that is liked by many and would likely be better than Orange Mandarin (TPA) in this recipe.

Coconut candy will probably not give you that authentic coconut flavor you are looking for, for this I recommend Coconut (FA) which has a fleshly raw flavor of coconut with a realistic sweetness. This is a creamy flavor too so it will really lend to the ultra creaminess of ambrosia.

...Speaking of creams, it looks like you left any real creams out of the final recipes. Greek Yogurt (TPA) is strong and will likely become to acidic before providing you with sufficient amount of cream, so I suggest adding Cream Fresh (FA) if the recipe is on the sweet side, and if it's not sweet enough use Sweet Cream (TPA)... but if you use Coconut (FA) instead of the Coconut Candy than you will likely use less of these creams.

I don't mean to pick apart your recipe at all! I just saw the effort you put into a great sounding recipe and I decided to put in some effort myself in hopes to help.

3 points
 
by Towerfulalmost 10 years ago

If i presented some planning like this, what you have just written would be the feedback I am looking for.
Constructive & descriptive, with pros & cons for each laid out.

I'm not OP, but have a piece of karma :)

2 points
 
by TheNebulousMindalmost 10 years ago

Awesome thank you! I just dont know how much criticism is constructive before you actually sound like a critic, lol.

1 points
 
by Python4funalmost 10 years agoProud Sidebar Reader!

criticism with reasoning to back it up is always constructive whether or not it is accepted. I really appreciate the points you made up there. I will be making some tweaks later with your recommendations. I'm really glad to have feedback like this to straighten out my choices even before ordering something that isn't going to work as well. This is very much what I like about this sub

1 points
 
by Python4funalmost 10 years agoProud Sidebar Reader!

That is awesome. Thank you for the insight. I don't know these flavors myself, and enjoy the help.

1 points
 
by nightwuulphalmost 10 years ago

have an upvote. If I post my Fruit Cake recipe im working on, will you critique it? lol

1 points
 
by TheNebulousMindalmost 10 years ago

Haha. I could try!

1 points
 
by Python4funalmost 10 years agoProud Sidebar Reader!

As I'm putting all the comments together now, I realize that I had forgotten to pull pina colada into the final recipe. What do you think about FA Coconut with TPA Pina Colada and FA Cream Fresh?

5 points
 
by mikarmalmost 10 years ago

So you have not tried this yet, right? To me CAP Golden Pineapple tasted more like a cooked pineapple than fresh but it wasn't bad.

2 points
 
by Python4funalmost 10 years agoProud Sidebar Reader!

Correct. This is something that I put together to begin working on a recipe. I will be ordering these flavors to test out the mix, but is there another pineapple that you would suggest?

3 points
 
by mikarmalmost 10 years ago

That's the only pineapple I have so I'm not sure.

The 8.76% one sounds good with maybe the marshmallow dialed back a bit. Ambrosia definitely needs a strong marshmallow presence but that seems high in that one. Really hard to say without actually trying it though. You might also think about rounding up/down just to get the flavors at an easier amount. Like 1.17 to 1.25, 0.99 to 1, 0.46 to 0.50, etc. I know you just put up what the scaling came out to.

I think I'll have some of these flavors coming in soon so I might give this a try but without the Butter Pecan. I don't think I have any yogurt flavors but I can hopefully figure out a cream that works.

1 points
 
by Python4funalmost 10 years agoProud Sidebar Reader!

Thanks for the feedback. I will definitely consider the tweaks, I will probably wait until I convert to weights before I round off. The engineer in me says to preserve the extra decimals as long as I can.

1 points
 
by Python4funalmost 10 years agoProud Sidebar Reader!

I was also intending to use some pina colada to help tie things together and help the cream note a bit. I just noticed that it was left out of the final recipes

3 points
 
by Nicobeakalmost 10 years ago

I haven't tried the cap, but inw pineapple is good

2 points
 
by Python4funalmost 10 years agoProud Sidebar Reader!

Thanks

2 points
 
by nightwuulphalmost 10 years ago

CAP golden pineapple is the one you want. for sure. And I admire your process, this is how most of my flavors begin. Usually a month or so before even close to perfection. sometimes you just hit the nail on the head. And like traditional cooking, dont be afraid to give it your own flair!

5 points
 
by suicide_noochalmost 10 years ago

Have you tried maraschino cherry yet? It is a very off-putting flavor. Very robitussin-esque, but worse.

2 points
 
by Python4funalmost 10 years agoProud Sidebar Reader!

I haven't and that's kind of what I was worried about as well as the information I was hoping to get here.

2 points
 
by HocusKrokusalmost 10 years ago

I think INW cherries would be ideal, or FW cherry crush as a compromise.

1 points
 
by Python4funalmost 10 years agoProud Sidebar Reader!

Awesome. Any idea on how much % for the INW cherries?

1 points
 
by leapinglabratsalmost 10 years ago

I've only tried it once, been sitting on the shelf ever since. It's incredibly potent and completely overpowered all the other flavors, even at 1%, but it's a quite tasty cherry. Just be very careful not to add too much!

2 points
 
by Python4funalmost 10 years agoProud Sidebar Reader!

So probably like 0.2%?

3 points
 
by Mavdog95almost 10 years agoProud Sidebar Reader!

Maybe try some dragonfruit as well? I heard great things about adding it to fruit mixes.

3 points
 
by Fawgmachinealmost 10 years agoMixologist

Hope this doesn't mess up your conversion, but FA mandarin ftw. It's super potent and you might even like mixing with tfa orange mandarin together. I find that TFA and the FA counterparts are fucking wonderful together. Berries/Bilberry, CAP tangerine/FA mandarin ETC. Fresh cream could add a heavyer cream, combined with sweet cream or even better FLV cream, you get a heavy sweet cream which is more fantastic than sweet cream could ever be alone. Those are my two cents :)

1 points
 
by Python4funalmost 10 years agoProud Sidebar Reader!

I forgot to include it in the final recipe but I was planning on including some amount of pina colada as well to help tie in and maybe add some sweetness

2 points
 
by Cheesybeanalmost 10 years agoFrugivore

I enjoy the math you did to convert the cups into decimals to get an idea of what needed to go and what amount. Alton Brown is the best, are you a fan of Cut Throat Kitchen perchance?

1 points
 
by Python4funalmost 10 years agoProud Sidebar Reader!

I haven't seen Cut Throat Kitchen, but I used to love watching him. I think it was Epicurious.

2 points
 
by HocusKrokusalmost 10 years ago

I use the butter pecan by FW quite a bit. At those ratios it will steam rolll almost everything else. I wouldn't go over 2%, and even then it'd be risky.

1 points
 
by Python4funalmost 10 years agoProud Sidebar Reader!

Thanks. I'll plan on starting at 1%

2 points
 
by satchvaialmost 10 years ago

Flv sweet coconut would be a better choice.

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