TL;DR up front; these rules are now in effect:
- Recipes that do not include significant development notes or other useful information must be posted to the monthly thread or will be deleted.
- Not permitted at all:
- "vape mail", hand check, and other picture only posts
- "Please review my first order" posts
- "what can I make with these flavors" posts
- Clone requests (already being deleted)
- No posts that offer money ( to buy juice, make clones, etc.). We are for hobbyists only.
FWIW, the other active mods (and at least a few of the more active users of this sub) are in agreement with these changes; it's not just me.
Now my wall of text.
I would prefer to be a hands-off mod & let the sub police itself. I would prefer that everyone new here read the sidebar, do their homework, use the search function, and post only when all resources are exhausted - OR you have a moment of inspiration that will make us all better mixers. Far too many posts are not meeting that criteria.
I was a new mixer too once. I couldn't wait for my crap to arrive; I'm pretty sure I posted photos of my shiny new bottles of flavors and gear, and I messed up that first order pretty bad - I still have the TFA Honey that I thought would work. I also posted a lot of really BAD recipes to this sub - a friend recently admitted to me that my early stuff was "unvapeable." I understand the excitement - really - but to be honest, not that many others really care (and if you've noticed, we now have over 20K subscribers)..
I have been removing about 3 to 5 posts most days that are clearly in violation on the limited rules we have. Thanks to those of you that use the "report" button properly. I am also amazed at the kindness and generosity and willingness to help shown by the members of this sub. I can't tell you how many times I've clicked on a "what can I make with these" post, ready to hit delete, and see that a dozen of you have offered to help. I don't know why you do it, but I'm happy you are a part of this community.
So, here's the bottom line. We want this sub to be useful at making us all better mixers. We don't want "fluff" that doesn't contribute to that goal. We want to make good mixers into great ones, and we want new mixers to absorb what's available here and be able to make some good stuff without any hand-holding. Sound reasonable? As to that last point, IMO there's enough in the sidebar to get anyone started, but if any of you think we are lacking a resource or two let us know and we'll get to work on it.
So, comments appreciated.
Been here for all of a week, I agree with all of this. I run a web forum elsewhere and everything here are issues we deal with every day as well. Keep it clean keep it usable.
I would suggest work on getting the 3/4 weekly/monthly threads pinned or something other then just half way down the side bar. Most people will not want to read to figure out where the threads are. Heck people probably wont even read the rules before posting and someone links them to them. We know how that is.
Props to all of you using the report button though, And those of you helping the currently uninformed out. This sub is great lets keep it that way.
I've been delegated to do a weekly thread archive in the wiki. I'll get to it as soon as they create the page(have edit rights, but not creation =/) And then I'll lobby to get it sidebar-ed as soon as it's done.
Awesomeness. Hopefully that will help make them more noticeable and stuff. Honestly the majority of people are just lazy so yeah.
But shaming people, misleading information and general dickery while we wait for the mod deletion is still allowed, right? I gotta have my general dickery.
Hey, just wanted to throw this out there...
My first thread on this sub was, apparently, a "hand check" (though, not really, more of an introduction... I was on mobile and couldn't add text along with my image, so I posted in the thread introducing myself). I had no idea what a "hand check" was, though have gleaned the meaning since.
Any way to add some clarification on that term in the etiquette post? I get it now, but other new folks might not.
Shouldnt it be added posts that obviously show the poster hasn't read the sidebar or used the search bar (guilty myself) will be deleted?
Sounds great.
One of the issues I've noticed in my limited time here is that the search function has been compromised by the types of posts you're targeting. Posts in the categories of "please review my first order" and "what can I make with these flavors" clutter the search results with useless cruft for anyone who does a search by flavor name. If I search for "INW Cactus," for instance, the last thing I want to see is either of those types of posts. What I really want to see is the type of useful posts that will hopefully remain: mixing notes on that flavor and recipes with development notes that use the flavor.
(EDIT: INW Cactus is a terrible example. There's only one "first order" post on the first page of search results for that one. Other flavors have more.)
To all the mods: thanks for your work on this sub and your thoughtfulness. I think the FDA hoopla has been bringing, and is going to bring, an exponential expansion in the userbase, and hopefully these rules will keep the sub working.
I wanted, so badly, to post a collage of my first proper mixing day! I will refrain, of course (I went and shot my wad on Flickr, anyway), but I hope this is an appropriate place to say this: Thank you all, so much, for posting tried-and-true, thoroughly vape-able recipes for me to work from, and tasting notes, to give me an idea where to jump off from in terms of my percentages for my own mixes. Without you, I'd have been flying blind, which would be costly and disheartening. You are all so knowledgeable and generous. Never stop! I love yooze!
Was just hoping to get a clarification on how much development notes or whatever would be acceptable, and if it includes "I'm trying to clone x recipe which is y description here is what I've tried so far, Looking for a little help possibly need to order more flavors" type of post. Since this is here I may as well ask it since this seems the place. And just to put it out there. I've exhausted the search function and scoured the rest of the Internet in search of x clone. ;)
Thanks for clarifying some of these other things will not shy from report bootan to help out if it's needed.
That kind of post is acceptable.
Thanks been lurking for a while. Just stepped out of the country while my first order was getting shipped. Just got off a 9 hour bus ride, Next I get to go on a 11 hour plane ride, hen another after a 5 hour layover. Then I get to be home. :D and my Flavuhs gonna be there.
I agree with Kirkt, sounds good to me! You've tried to find the answer, which is all that counts
>and other picture only posts
this doesn't include pictures that are INSIDE of actual post's. correct? I'm 99% sure. just making it 100% lol
P.S /u/Kirkt ...I can't believe we are having strict rules now. I thought the day would never come haha. I always figured you to be 2 pacifist.
and one more question. what's up with inactive mods still being mods? I'm not upset about it personally but it just seems...meh. you know?
> this doesn't include pictures that are INSIDE of actual post's. correct? I'm 99% sure. just making it 100% lol
You are correct.
I'd have preferred stricter rules a year ago, but we polled the community and general response was leave it alone. The mood has changed as of late.
As to mods - I have no ability to remove mods senior to me even if I wanted to, which I don't. Just think of them as emeritus. Heck, our founder doesn't even mix DIY.
In addition to rule 3, I'd like to plug /r/DIFM_eJuice where you can commission a flavor for a fee.(Add that to the originial post, so people know where they CAN pay for a flavor?)
Thank you guys for doing this, and I hope the sub returns to normal in a short amount of time.
Now, to facilitate people finding the correct threads, Might I suggest pushing the all about nicotine and common abbreviations posts into the diy beginner's guide, and putting a wiki link for current and past weekly threads? Someone drew to my attention that the "what can I make" threads get buried so quickly that no one really offers help after the first day. I don't want to see the new rule change push people away if they truly need our help, and I feel it would be helpful to have that link always there.
I actually thought DIFM was a parody sub. Will add link if you want.
¶3: Not sure what exactly you want here. I've added you as a wiki submitter so go for it. In terms of weekly threads - I know they get buried but honestly it's pablum to get that crap off the main page. We can try to add links but honestly I have issues with keeping the monthly threads updated.
For paragraph 3, I was suggesting that we put some of the posts that would be helpful to beginners(common abbreviations and nicotine information) in the beginner DIY link, that way we have 2 new spots for a weekly thread link(for new mixer and what can I make to go into) and an extra link for something else. I suggested this because you guys have mentioned the lack of space allowed in the sidebar.
edit: and DIFM was a parody, until a few people payed /u/abdada to make some recipes, so he turned it around to make a profit hahaha. I believe /u/clonedejuice does commissions over there now.
Hey, OP,
I read this yesterday & had a bunch of questions on this:
>Recipes that do not include significant development notes or other useful information must be posted to the monthly thread or will be deleted.
You see, i dont get this. Im not experienced enough to write up "development notes". I dont know why 4% Strawberry ripe tastes good with 6% Strawberry. It just does. Why does it have to be a wall of text>
>I would prefer to be a hands-off mod & let the sub police itself.
How would that work, exactly? I get that everyone here screams "READ THE SIDEBAR" to new users (i do too), but i still think you would have a post every now & then asking for the top 10 flavors, or some shit. Wont a moderator need to remove said post?
>I understand the excitement - really - but to be honest, not that many others really care (and if you've noticed, we now have over 20K subscribers)
I get this, but i dont know if i agree with it. The point of the sub is to better ourselves (mixing-wise) & share recipes, right? So why cant someone post a shitty recipe & be critiqued for it?
>I don't know why you do it, but I'm happy you are a part of this community.
see above. thats why they do it. because they were new once too. Theyre here to help. Plus, you dont want to scare the new users away. Who knows? You can be helping the next fizzmustard. :)
Not trying to come off rude, im just trying to understand the reason behind the rules.
> Hey, OP, > I read this yesterday & had a bunch of questions on this: > Recipes that do not include significant development notes or other useful information must be posted to the monthly thread or will be deleted. > You see, i dont get this. Im not experienced enough to write up "development notes". I dont know why 4% Strawberry ripe tastes good with 6% Strawberry. It just does. Why does it have to be a wall of text
A stand-alone recipe post should be about making us better mixers, not about the final list of ingredients. A while back it was a rule that ALL recipe posts were to be in the proper thread only; we relaxed that for posts that had "more" to offer. Frankly it makes it hard to mod and I'd be happy going back to the old rule.
> I would prefer to be a hands-off mod & let the sub police itself. > How would that work, exactly? I get that everyone here screams "READ THE SIDEBAR" to new users (i do too), but i still think you would have a post every now & then asking for the top 10 flavors, or some shit. Wont a moderator need to remove said post?
Yes, mods still need to remove the post. What I meant was I'd prefer people follow the rules so there didn't need to be so much mod activity.
> I understand the excitement - really - but to be honest, not that many others really care (and if you've noticed, we now have over 20K subscribers) > I get this, but i dont know if i agree with it. The point of the sub is to better ourselves (mixing-wise) & share recipes, right? So why cant someone post a shitty recipe & be critiqued for it?
They can - and the proper place is the monthly thread.
> I don't know why you do it, but I'm happy you are a part of this community. > see above. thats why they do it. because they were new once too. Theyre here to help. Plus, you dont want to scare the new users away. Who knows? You can be helping the next fizzmustard. :) > Not trying to come off rude, im just trying to understand the reason behind the rules.
You make some very valid points. The problem is what you don't see: the 5 to 20 posts daily that didn't follow the rules and got removed, and the complaints to mods to start cleaning up a lot of the rest of the sub.
One of two things was bound to happen sooner or later: Either we cleaned up the sub for the more active user base, or they were going to leave and make a private sub for experienced mixers only. I know of at least one of these private subs that has drained some talent from here. I'd prefer this sub cater to the whole DIY community. Someone's "first order" post might be great for them, but if it irritates 50 people it's not such a great post. We don't want to chase awy the next fizzmustard; we also don't want to chase away the actual fizzmustard.
Does this help?
lol, yeah, good points.
Ninja edit: thanks for answering
Can we have a more detailed explanation on what is "significant" and "useful"?
Starting to have a lot of threads happening with very subjective opinionated comments due to the wide range of meanings for these words.
Significant and useful to who or to what skill level of mixer?
I myself found any recipe and note significant and useful until I heard it once.
I am sure that some of the well versed mixers don't see much at all significant or useful but from time to time.
How will newer users determine these rules and post without getting flamed, warned, or banned?
I replied to you here.
So I haven't posted here in a long time, and when I did post I'm sure it wasn't helpful, but what in the Holy hell happened around here? This is not a good way to build community in a sub. It is a great way to turn people away though, so if that's what ya'll want, well, jobs a good one then.
I am pretty active in /r/homebrewing, and none of the "rules" there are anywhere near as restrictive as they are here, even though they deal with the same sort of shit posts. Definitely a much friendlier place.