This is more of a hypothetical at this point. But if the FDA ends up totally fucking your business over would you adapt and sell flavor bases sans nicotine as 'liquid air freshener' or some other nondescript product or would you call it quits and release the details of your recipes to the DIY community? It makes me sad to think that some of my favorite commercially available juices could possibly go the way of the dodo and would be cool if some of the companies that will inevitably die choose to publicly release their formulations. Or shift over to selling recipes rather than juice (obviously not as profitable I know)? Or something else?
I would create a new business selling flavor concentrates for candy makers and cake bakers and release all the Gremlin flavors as signature flavor bases so people could make Berry Overload Taffy and CinnFull Pear Lollipops. :)
well if the gov't fucks my american dream (as they have so many) I'm gonna live under a bridge and scare people that walk over it.
Selling recipes is great and all, but how would you stop someone from sharing that recipe? You wouldn't be able to.
It would completely destroy the vaping industry, and that's the sad thing. Multi million dollar industry, snuffed out due to some old crusty fucks who don't like the fact that someone is making money without them.
Multi billion, not million-dollar industry. They wouldn't care about paltry millions.
Well, holy shit. They're going to snuff out potentially billions in revenue (you know, helping the economy, more taxes paid due to more money earned, income stimulation all that) because it's an ass full of money that Big Tobacco/Pharma haven't got their dicks in?
Yeah I realize this wouldn't really work. It wouldn't amount to much more than a 'tip jar'. I could see some legacy juice lines putting out recipe books maybe one day but really no way to keep people from sharing.
When I recently moved to North Carolina from New York, I discontinued my business because of the regulations. but yeah, basically going to have to sell "perfumes" and then have people buy their own nic kits to add in. It's going to be a travesty because government, of course, handled this entirely improperly.
It's a tough question I've been mulling around, obviously due to the current climate. The worst-case apocalypse scenario from the "leaked documents" sent to OMB effectively prevent the workaround of selling "candy flavorings" if it becomes clear the real intention behind the product.
At my current 6 flavors, it would be hard to find any room for profit mixing flavorings just to sell concentrates.
Of course I've toyed around with releasing the recipes should the worst happen, but I certainly wouldn't be brash and do it on day one. We can, of course, sue :)
if shit REALLY hit's the fan. let's you and me gather up a few years worth of living supplies. go under ground. and create secret labs, where we will duo on some of the world's best recipe's and release them every 3 months (quarterly)
at a certain point our recipe's will be so desired, people will drop packages in remote location's that will get us by. we will than begin making mass quantities again, we drop them in random locations for people to vape every 3 months for free.
we move locations randomly (remaining under ground of course)
people will supply us with our needs. and we will supply them with e-liquid.
sound like a plan?
> At my current 6 flavors, it would be hard to find any room for profit mixing flavorings just to sell concentrates.
You could sell diluted concentrates or mark up the concentrated version and convince people that it's the equivalent to X number of bottles. I guess the scarcity of the future market would create opportunities for that, but still it just wouldn't have the same magic as opening a bottle specially crafted, formulated, and steeped just for you. Especially considering the effort it takes for people like you to deliberately design this beautiful quality package only to have to ask someone to home bake the last step. Feels entirely wrong :(
I agree, friend. It's sad.
To your suggestion about selling the concentrates equivalent to X finished bottles, assuming the current proposal that was leaked is legitimate and fully implemented, that won't fly. Advertising it as intended for use in an e-cigarette makes it a component of a tobacco product, and thus regulated. Out of existence.
Jesus fuck! If I was a lawyer this would easily consume 100% of my pro-bono time. What kind of legal appeals can even be made? This whole situation reeks of hegemony. I can already see myself watching the pro-vaping documentary "Who Killed the Electric Cigarette?" on Netflix 5 years from now.
Damn just read through the leaked documents and I'm afraid you are right. I can't see how any company hardware, juice or otherwise would be able to meet with these filing demands. It's as if the FDA is just dumping the burden of proof on anyone who wants to market a 'tobacco product'. You'd need a ridiculous amount of capital to do half of the research they expect you to do into your products. Kinda makes you wonder why they don't just call it what it is... an outright ban.
We will eventually discover all the good recipes anyway. :P
DIY is probably a tenth of a percent of vapors out there.
From the people too scared to mix to the people that just don't have time. We are few...
Even if Juice is taxed like Cigarettes, people will buy it...
I have faith that we will continue to kill it for sure. But keep in mind we are potentially looking at consequences much more serious than taxes on vape related products. I'm not sure whether under these proposed guidelines (if they are real... and they look pretty real) even 90% of currently available commercial juice would be able to return to market. The FDA bar could potentially get set exceedingly high in an effort to systematically suppress all "premarket" products from ever getting approval and going (or returning) to market. And most of the market currently falls under that category.