I'm just curious. I make my own juice. The products separate themselves and then mix it.
Would this whole thing affect coils or mods? Or just the juice manufacturers? I can't seem to find a clear explanation.
I keep seeing the impassioned phrase "save vaping". But there is a skeptical part of me that says. Does this just mean save commercial products sold in businesses?
Another question. Is loose pipe tobacco fda regulated?
To answer your questions. They way the bill is right now yes even diyers will suffer. They want to ban EVERYTHING. Batteries, cotton, wire, buttons, box, VG, pg, flavors, nictoine, cigars, and loose pipe tobacco.
The FDA won't win alot of the bill. Let's face it they can't regulate most items. The 18650 battery was around before vaping. Used in flashlights and the Telsa car. If they block it for vaping the name will change from "18650 vape battery" to "high drain automobile battery."
Cotton.. Simple what is people at Walmart or CVS going to ask you if you are using this for vape and if you say yes they call the cops? No..
Wire that we use is also use in model rockets. So there no way to regulate that. You'll just see more wire for model rockets.
Flavors are used in food and other industries that wont be blocked. VG is used in farming. PG is used in cosmetics and medical industry. Those won't be blocked.
E-liquid will be relabel as aromatherapy liquid with a not fda approved and not for human consumption warning and sold that way. Most E-liquid will start coming with 0mg and you'll add what you need.
Nictone is where they can regulate. This includes e-liquid shipped with nictone but nictone is used in many other industries. If we have ours blocked we go else where. So, not the end of the world.
Mech mods will be turned into a flashlight. They will sell a small adaptor to screw into the 510 connector with a light at the end.
VV/VW or regulated mods I don't have something. Maybe the same as a mech mod. A variable flashlight.
Tanks and RDAs I really don't know. I have not spent much time thinking of this. Maybe aromatherapy warmers.
Oh China will still sell nictone and mods and stuff cause China doesn't care. So we'll be okay. Not as easy as it is now but still will be available. And I am sure one of the nictone vendors will head down south and open up shop selling pesticide nictone.
I really hope it just becomes regulated as if you sell it you must not sell to minors and if nictone is added you must have this label and this cap and pay a tax. That's fine.
The vaping industry from the beginning has been regulating itself and done a good job at it. I agree that the market should be regulated to keep away from minors and to have a more uniformity in manufacturing but so far we have done that even before the FDA. And lets face it the FDA is not doing such a good job keeping minors from getting cigarettes. I am sure I can find a 15 year old who can get me a cigarette within minutes. If not that I am sure they can get me weed in less time. I forget who regulates that? Oh yeah the FDA.
HR2058 is not for diyers. It's for commercial products but the FDA wants to make everything from batteries to cotton to mods and flavors illegal. So if the FDA wins blocking everything HR2058 will make anything from the day the FDA bill passes and older legal and won't need to go through the fda testing. So including flavors and everything I listed above.
Sorry for the grammer and runon but I am tired and had to get some basic info out.
I agree with you on this, regulation is required, but it needs to be based on fact rather then a knee jerk reaction. im never one to buy into conspiracy theories or the like but this proposed bill, like many others around the globe, is being heavily lobbied in by the tobacco industry, The idea that public health is being used as the driving force behind this is absolutely absurd! If public health was of such concern then tobacco products of any kind would banned. And the sad thing is, all this regulation will do is drive the industry underground, making it much more dangerous and unregulated. As to original question, it shouldnt affect DIYers too much as the individual products themselves were around long before vaping.
> mech mods will turn into flashlights
It will be full circle. I know the Blackhawk mods and a number of early mods were made from(or designed from) flashlights
Nice!! We can all get one and blinde everyone at the FDA.
You can get a 800 Lumens adapter here fellow flashlighter (that's our new name now) :)
Fantastic post. This puts a lighter tone on this regulation.
Thanks. That was the hope. We need to fear the bill and we need to fight it but we can't look at it like the end. It's not. Companies, like ours, is going to be fighting the fight. Well keep our prices low and well use tacts to get around these regulations. But with that being said we would never put our customers in danger physical or legal. Everyone needs to keep an eye on it and fight it but the FDA is blowing big tobacco smoke.
For what it's worth, in Australia the sale/supply/giving of nicotine is banned.
We get around it by selling food flavouring "doublers", which are bottles half-full of concentrate, that when you add your own (grey-area legally imported) nicotine, becomes a juice ready to go.
I can't remember where I was going with this... but, good luck US!
Zero nic juice will be labled a tobacco product because it can be "reasonably assumed" that "liquid nicotine can be added to it."
A lot of misinformation in here.
The FDA has defined a "tobacco" product as any element of juice or hardware, whether it's a final retail product or a whole sale component.
If it passes as it sits, they would be regulating cotton, wire, wicks, pg, nic, mods. Anything vape related would be tobacco even if used in other industries.
Will this get through and will they enforce who knows.
This is not about tax. It's about FDA certification which is time consuming (years) expensive (millions for every variation, size, and nic level/0 nic wattage or color.) And atrocious (every single variation must be certified separately even if its only a color change).
This will undoubtedly shut down all small and medium business whether they are specifically targeted to vaping or not.
The only thing that i could see that would effect DIY would be the regulations for nicotine base, if covered in the bill.
VG, flavorings, Wire, and cotton are multipurpose. You could probably avoid the bullshit and order hardware from china if things are that bad.
Thing is, nicotine base has been available since before 2007 for use in e-cigarettes, so would it not fall under the grandfathered date? I mean, how else were devices that contained liquid nicotine produced otherwise?
From what I understand is that brand & product needed to have been released before 2007. I am not aware of any of the common companies that were around before that and still sell the same exact product.
WizardLabs has this statement on their website; "Our organic nicotine extraction is performed through partnership with the same extraction laboratories used by the leading national brands of alternative nicotine products for your assurance of chemical purity, quality control, and reliable results."
I remember a while back they mentioned one of the NRT producers, I think it was J&J, but they must have removed that comment. Alternative nicotine products would include gums and patches. They've been about since before 2007.
I've been in a Battery & Bulb store that sold 18650s specifically for flashlights.
Unbleached organic cotton pads (for makeup application) from amazon
VG can be found in most drugstores and grocery stores (Humco?)
PG at Tractor supply.
It's the actual hardware and nicotine that I'm worried about.
That's part of what concerns me. I don't profess to understand FDA regulations or how vitamin supplements skirt this and several other things do as well.
Just want to make sure I could still vape and make my juice regardless of what happens.
If it ever became a real thing you should have plenty of time to buy Nic and stock up. I am really surprised at this whole deal. Just when weed is starting to become less of a taboo. I guess there has been a lot of kids vaping since the craze hit. I know of someone who let their kid vape at a low nic, but its no different if they let them drink, smoke, or take pills. This whole thing is about taxing the product. Cigs are taxed quite a bit and they aren't happy about the drop in sells.
But how long can you store nicotine in the fridge? I have a buddy that vapes as well and we're both getting pissed at the thought of all this FDA bullshit... My buddy fishes and has a gigantic freezer at his house. We are definitely considering picking up like 20 gallons of 100mg Nic base if this thing goes south.... But how long can the stuff last before going bad? Can I have a 20 year stock pile of nicotine?
I live 20mins from Mexico. If there's one think Mexico is good at, it's insuring Americans can get all the things their stupid country doesn't allow.... Fireworks, Cuban cigars, absinthe, drugs, prostitutes, you name it.
Whenever something is banned or regulated to a stupid level, a black market opens the very next day. This is one of the things the US isn't even thinking about right now. Vapers will not stop, I will not stop. If that means smuggling vape gear and juice, I'm gonna do it. Cartel juice anyone? Yummy
If companies are smart they will just start selling the flavoring base and people can then source VG and nicotine. This should also drive down the price of e liquid (which is far too expensive as it is).
China doesn't give a crap about the FDA, so people will just source their mods and RDA's abroad.
More hassle for the consumer, but there is NO way the gov will put an end to vaping.
The regulations classify products as "tobacco products" based on the intent of the vendor, and whether the vendor knows or should know that the product will be used as a component in an e-cig system.
It will most definitely affect mods and atomizers. Those will take the second-biggest hit after commercial juice manufacturers. You can always DIY a mod yourself, but you should plan on never being able to buy another atty. Attys are purpose-built for vaping and require machining skills that the average person doesn't have. If you have a favorite atty, you should stock up on extras and replacement parts.
I would say that the main impact on DIYers is that there will be no "one stop shops." You will not be able to buy nicotine at the same shop you buy your flavorings, or at the same shop you buy your VG/PG. You will have to go to different shops to buy each of those, plus for bottles, batteries, kanthal, cotton, tweezers, etc. Because a shop that offers more than one these things for sale starts to look like it knows or should know that people will use them to vape.
In addition, Flavorah and Flavor Art will have to either meet the huge expense and burden of going through the FDA process, for each individual flavor they sell, or they'll go out of business. They both have post-2007 products and both are marketing specifically and intentionally to vapers. Thus their flavorings will clearly be "tobacco products."
I don't think FastTech will care about FDA regs.
No, that's true. Fasttech will probably continue with business as usual if possible. But they may run into difficulties with U.S. customs enforcement.