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Let's Have a Conversation About Coffee Extraction
submitted about 10 years ago by pint07

I've been thinking about this a lot in the past couple days. I extracted some espresso through the method in the sidebar, and the flavor is incredible... But upon further investigation it seems like there's too many lipids left in the base for a safe vape.

So last night I scoured the web for information about lipids, how they dissolve/absorb into liquids of differing polarities, which brewing methods extract most/less lipids and this is what I've come up with.

> Standard drip brewing relies on gravity to extract flavor from the bean and exposes only those flavor oils just under the surface of the grounds to the brewing water. Espresso brewing forces water in to the interior cell wall of the tightly packed grounds, extracting by pressure what gravity alone can’t: emulsified oils, sugars and lipids that give espresso the intense and complex flavor profile for which it is renowned.

If this is true, then a standard drip brew/pour over with no pressurization would probably be the best method of extracting flavor molecules from the coffee grounds without getting the same level of lipids as soak and shake/aeropress/ect. Taking this one step further, coffee brews that are filtered through filter paper have been found to contain less than 7mg of lipids per 150ml of brew - this is compared to 60-160mg/150ml of nonfiltered or espresso style brews.

Since lipids dissolve/extract MUCH easier in solvents of lower polarity, I believe we could use something like methanol or ethanol (still polar, but is much closer to non-polarity than water, propylene glycol, and vegetable glycerin - methanol would extract the lipids more efficiently, but I would feel better about using ethanol because of methanol's toxicity) to pour through the coffee beans before we do the extraction to try to extract out as much of the lipids as possible. Using some sort of alcohol is preferable too, since it will be very easy to evaporate any lingering molecules from our flavor brew once we're finished. Combine all of this with the fact that lipids turn from a liquid oil to a solid fat based on temperature (the colder, the more solid), I believe we can get almost all of our lipid content out of our flavor.

Here's how my method would work - keep in mind I have yet to actually test this. First, we would take a medium-fine grind, scoop out 1tbs per 30ml of our desired flavor base (VG would technically be better for avoiding lipids based on its polarity, but PG would work much better with the paper filters). Then we would rinse the paper filter with water to rinse away paper artifacts, add the grinds, and pour cold ethanol through them, making sure to soak every bit of grinds thoroughly. The colder the better, because we don't want the ethanol extracting our flavor out before we get to it. Then we would heat our flavor base to ~196-200 degrees F, and perform a pourover coffee brew with our PG/VG. Once it has strained out (it will take a while), we can use a refrigerator or freezer to get the brew as cold as possible. Once it's cold, and whatever lipids are left are nice and solid, we run it through a paper filter a second time, then use a hair dryer or heat gun or something in a well ventilated area to dissolve off any remnants of ethanol that might remain (you'll definitely be able to smell the alcohol if there's any left).

I'm hoping this pourover method will be enough to extract enough flavoring from the coffee grounds to be useable. If not, I believe we could do a hybrid of this extraction method and the one on the sidebar - as in the mason jar, hot water bath with grounds, shake it up method - only at the beginning run ethanol through the grounds and at the end filter through a paper filter, refrigerate and filter out through a paper filter again to still achieve the same goal - however this pourover method would in theory leave us with less lipids.

Can I get some critique on this? Am I missing anything?

Comments
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2 points
 
by pint07about 10 years ago

/u/Enyawreklaw would like to see what you think of this. Would like even more for you to try it since you seem to be sensitive to the lipids in your extraction and report back.

2 points
 
by Enyawreklawabout 10 years agoMixologist

yeah this looks interesting. /u/prototrd is right, /u/abdada might be someone who knows something like this much more than me. I will say that I think it wasn't just the oils that were fucking with me when I did my extraction. I know that coffee beans, especially the store bought bagged ones I was using, are pretty dirty. I'm thinking the ethanol might help clean off any bacteria that may be on the beans, but like I said, I'm not well versed in this kind of thing. The last thing I'd want though, is someone getting any kind of lung infection from something as dumb as vaping an experiment, so just be careful bud. I'm definitely intrigued by this though and please let us know your updates as you go!

1 points
 
by pint07about 10 years ago

That definitely makes sense, but it also seems like a rather minuscule issue compared to the lipids. I mean we could just wash our beans ourselves before grinding right? I'm gonna give this a shot tomorrow, will report back.

2 points
 
by prototrdabout 10 years agoProud Sidebar Reader!

I think that /u/abdada would be interested in this. Seems up his alley.

So, just to be sure, you're saying to run cold ethanol through the grounds first to remove lipids, then run 200* PG or VG through the grounds into a seperate container to get the flavoring, then cool the flavoring to near freezing and run it through the paper filter again to extract any lipids, then let the flavoring breathe to release any remaining ethanol?

Thanks for this information! I'll try this sometime this weekend and compare it to my original drip brew of coffee flavoring (just a plain soak the grounds in PG)

1 points
 
by pint07about 10 years ago

Yep that's exactly what I'm saying. In my head it'll work great, but I have not tried it yet. Will probably give it a shot sometime this weekend as well.

edit: definitely report back whatever you find! I'm very interested to see what people come up with

1 points
 
by rabidnzabout 10 years ago

How do you make it last more than a couple of weeks without going stale?

1 points
 
by pint07about 10 years ago

Well if we can successfully get the lipids out there would be nothing to go stale. It should theoretically last for several years, which is about the shelf life of e-liquid anyways.

1 points
 
by brohemithabout 10 years ago

Have you tried just putting the flavoring in the freezer? The fats may solidify and fall from the solution, and you'd be able to just filter them out.

1 points
 
by pint07about 10 years ago

I have not, but it's definitely worth trying out. Will be doing some experimenting tomorrow.

1 points
 
by brohemithabout 10 years ago

I'd definitely try it out. With ethanol extractions, that's usually all that is required to remove the majority of lipids. The thing you're trying to do is called winterization, just in case you didn't know. That may help you find some more resources online.

1 points
 
by pint07about 10 years ago

That's awesome information, I'll look more into it. Thank you!

1 points
 
by inDiscoveryalmost 10 years ago

Was there ever an update on this?

2 points
 
by pint07almost 10 years ago

The problem is I have no way to test this, or any method... I'm not sure I can send off a sample to a lab to test for "lipids" since they're such a broad term. I guess I could contact a lab to find out, but it seems kind of doubtful...

1 points
 
by inDiscoveryalmost 10 years ago

Yeah, I was going to add that. I wasn't so much referring to the mass of the lipids/ difference, more so if it was just a proven method of making a coffee flavor extract. I wanted to make my own oil with just pre-concocted ingredients and hadn't thought about doing flavor extracts. Which is by far... wayyy more fun haha.

The science/chemistry is there for what you postulated (as far as lipid count)..more so curious to see if it's an effective way to make a flavor extract. I'll likely use this as a recipe.

2 points
 
by pint07almost 10 years ago

Oh it's absolutely an effective way to make a flavor extract. I have some sitting on my desk right now, stuff is absolutely delicious! I'm just afraid to vape too much of it because I don't know for sure what the lipid count is...

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