So, let's talk nicotine. Hopefully this post will help to relieve some of the never ending questions continuing to pop up around nicotine including the basics, vendors, testing, storage, use and more.
##THE BASICS
Liquid nicotine is widely available in differing concentrations and in either a Propylene Glycol (PG) base or a Vegetable Glycerin (VG) base, or some combination thereof. 100mg/ml nicotine is the strongest concentration of nicotine that we will address in this post as you should absolutely NOT be purchasing anything stronger for at home use. 100mg/ml nicotine is 10% nicotine and 90% base. Naturally we can draw from this that 1000mg/ml nicotine is pure nicotine.
What base should you purchase your nicotine in? Well that depends entirely on you. If you follow my recommend storage instructions either a PG based, VG based or some combination thereof will last you several years if you purchase enough quantity and store it according to my instructions. Simply put, PG nicotine is easier to work with as it is thinner and less likely to contain hot spots (hot spots are pockets of your solution that are more highly concentrated than the rest and can be quite dangerous if not addressed, see the USE section for more details). VG based nicotine is recommended for those with severe PG allergies or who desire to make MAX VG juice, or PG free juice.
Good nicotine is rarely discolored. Bad nicotine will usually have a brownish/yellow tint to it. This means the nicotine has been exposed to excessive amounts of light, heat or oxygen and has begun to oxidize. When nicotine oxidizes, it begins to change color and can take on a peppery scent/taste as well as an added harshness of throat hit. Nicotine with a pink hue is typically just fine and is usually colored that way due to some part of the manufacturing process.
##Next, let's talk a little bit about NICOTINE VENDORS, how they differ and how to find value among them.
This is obviously a controversial topic that is heavily weighted by an individuals opinion. I will talk about the highest quality nicotine available as well as the best value purchases. Before we can do this though, we have to work to define "what is good nicotine".
Good nicotine is not discolored, oxidized or old and carries a minimum amount of throat hit. It is "clean" meaning that impurities are very minimal and the PG/VG based is very clean and pure as well. In order of quality based on my personal experience and the wideheld experience of other members of /r/diy_ejuice, I have listed the top 4 Nicotine Vendors below:
Carolina Extracts (CXTC) - The purest and cleanest nicotine currently available on the market. This nicotine is processed for you without it ever touching oxygen. Priced at $155.99 per liter this is the most expensive nicotine we recommend using (additional $10-20 for shipping in the US). Coupon code: "Dada1" for a varying discount based on quantity of use.
VapersTek - An extremely high quality nicotine vendor that is very high priced as well at $125 per liter. I don't know of any discount codes available. Additional shipping charges apply.
Vape Clarity - At the price of $65 per liter this is the cleanest nicotine I have ever found at a reasonable price. On top of that, their customer service is absolutely top notch. A newer player on the block (got into the DIY arena around June of 2015, but have been kicking ass ever since).
Nude Nicotine - All the rage for awhile until it was discovered that a few of their batches had shipped out at 1.5x the labeled strength. Still very high quality nicotine assuming you get a good batch. The major downside here is that their customer service has become abysmal and they take 3-5 days from order placed until it ships with little to no communication. Combine that with their price of $105 per liter and they kinda ended up on my shit list.
##TESTING
Now that you have ordered your nicotine and it has arrived, the first step is to test your nicotine. Rather than walk you through everything you need to know here, I will link you over to Wizard Labs' Nicotine Test Kit which includes on that webpage, everything you need to know about testing the strength of your nicotine solution. The only thing they don't mention on this page that I will emphasize is that you need to give your nicotine a good shake prior to testing to help avoid hot spots.
##STORAGE
Ok, now you have received your order of nicotine, you have tested it to be accurate, it's clear and clean and ready for use. If you ordered more than a 30 day supply, follow the best practice below to insure the highest quality. Nicotine is primarily degraded by heat, light, and oxygen. Eliminating any of these 3 is good, but eliminating all of them is even better.
Personally, I order 1-4 liters of nicotine at a time depending on expected sales volume, but I am obviously not mixing for just personal use. If you are mixing for personal use, just lower the below quantities to the level you are comfortable with.
First things first, you want to break down your order of nicotine into two categories. The amount of nicotine you will consume over the next 30 days, and all the rest.
Whatever you are consuming in the next 30 days, place in an amber glass bottle, dropper top discouraged but can be used. Place this container in a cool dark place, kitchen cabinets work great, if you tend not to run A/C in hot summers, consider placing it in your fridge instead. LABEL THIS BOTTLE AS TOXIC/POISON/NICOTINE so that you don't have any mishaps with drunk friends...
Place the rest of your nicotine solution in amber glass bottles in 30 day supply sizes. IE, don't put it in 250ml bottles if you only use 30ml a month. We want to minimize the exposure to oxygen as much as possible and this means we don't want to be opening and closing the same bottle. Once you have that quantity broken down into amber glass bottles, label them all with the date received and vendor received from (batch if desired), once again, label as poison/toxic/nicotine etc. You want to fill these bottles as high as possible to allow for a minimum amount of oxygen in the bottle once sealed. If you aren't filling to the brim you can use an argon wine preserver like this one in order to eliminate the excess oxygen in the bottle. Follow the instructions on the bottle.
Seal your nicotine bottles for storage (just caps or caps + argon), place in a brown paper bag, and place them in the freezer. Remove one bottle at a time as needed. Try not to place them on the door or near the ice maker to avoid excess agitation.
##USE
Ok, now it's time to use your nicotine. This is pretty simple, plug your values into your recipe calculator and use. My biggest caution to you will be to make sure you let it thaw thoroughly after removing from the freezer. Also, be sure to mix it extremely well (vigorous shake a few different times after thawing) before using to help avoid hotspots. Shake before every use.
If you are mixing by weight and use specific gravity, I have included a formula below to help you determine the precise specific gravity of your solution:
N = Nicotine concentration converted to percentage, IE 48mg = 4.8, 100mg = 10
PG = Percent of PG in your solution
VG = Percent of VG in your solution
((PG + VG) - N) / (100) = Y
(Y x PG) / 100 = P
(Y x VG) / 100 = V
((N x 1.01) /100) + (P x 1.038) + (V x 1.26) = Specific Gravity of your solution
Example: 48 mg nicotine in a 30pg/70vg blend
((30+70) - 4.8) / (100) = 0.952
(0.952 x 30) / 100 = 0.2856
(0.952 x 70) / 100 = 0.6664
((4.8 x 1.01) / 100) + (0.2856 x 1.038) + (0.6664 x 1.26) = 0.04848 + 0.2964528 + 0.839664 or 1.1845968 grams per ml
Edit: If your nicotine solution is only PG or only VG, simply eliminate the other from the equation above
That will conclude today's lesson. I'm sure some of the comments that arise below will answer any additional questions that someone new or even experienced and looking for better options with DIY will have.
Have a great rest of the week everyone!
couldnt post this a few weeks ago, eh? i:
- ordered from Nude Nicotine
- didnt shake
- didnt get a nic test kit...
goddamnit, OP... i blame you!
ROFL, sorry had a kid!
well congrats, then! lol. but yeah, theres some controversy on nude nicotine. some love it, while others hate it.
there's also some controversy on shaking it. some say it isnt needed
Thanks!
Yeah I don't know that it makes a difference honestly. I'very never had Hotspot trouble and you shouldn't if the vendor is doing what they should be doing mixing it but it's a good precaution to take.
I received a 148mg/ml batch from nude, thankfully I test all the nicotine a I receive before I start mixing and shipping. In the end I could have cared less, was free money for me.
Still, not good for your average DIY'er. Can't beat the price for the level of quality from VC.
There are so many other companies that beat out the ones listed.
In no way shape or form is there cause to prove that Carolina Xtract has the cleanest nic above all vendors out there on the market.
Great info but vendor advice is off
> This is obviously a controversial topic that is heavily weighted by an individuals opinion.
I'll let /u/abdada fight this battle with you if he wants to.
I don't fight imaginary unmentioned bogeymen typically.
CXTC is the only player I'm aware of that:
- Specifically targets the vaping market
- Does a cold/cold/closed process themselves with no outsourcing
- uses US organic tobacco
- provides analysis of each batch
- provides argon fill on every bottle
If there are better vendors, no one has mentioned them. Neither has the commenter.
This post is only an hour old so of course more people will mention vendors.
That: "I'm aware of" /u/abdada I know you rep Carolina, so of course the info you provide will be biased toward them. I've used Carolina Xtract and the company is legit but it was heavily overpriced, especially when buying in bulk. There are tons of other options with the same service, options and high quality nicotine.
All I'm saying is that saying that it's the best on the market is a personal opinion. So yes, I agree with you on that
Flavor comes out most brilliantly in Carolina nicotine. Considerably more than Vaporstek. Carolina is more acidic though; and ever so lightly, barely noticeable, has a little more throat hit (10mg+).
I concur with Botboy141 and abdada. Carolina is the bomb-digity.
I have not had sexual relations with the above vendors.
Can I get a TLDR
Any benefits to getting 100mg vs 36mg or 48mg besides to save money?
I prefer 60 mg/ml because it makes the math so easy.
One friend vapes at 12 mg/ml. I add 2 mls to each of his 10 ml, or 10 ml if I am making him a 50.
Another vapes at 6. 1 ml / 10ml or 5ml / 50 ml.
I vape at 1.5. That's .25 ml for a 10 or 1.25 for a 50.
There are countries where selling nicotine is illegal. Electronic cigarette liquid vendors there sell nicotine-free liquids and have customers source their own unflavoured nicotine.
The stronger the nicotine the less the flavour is diluted. Thus the recommendation for 100mg.
I don't see handling safety addressed in this lesson; is working with 100ml/mg nic really as dangerous as it has been made out to be? After months of very carefully working with the nicotine (gloves, eye protection, etc.) I eventually got a drop on my bare skin and nothing happened. I'm sure it would be much worse in an open wound or an eyeball, but I was expecting it to at least burn.
Don't inhale it directly (like sniffing the bottle repeatedly), don't drink it, keep it out of your eyes and wash skin if it makes contact.
Addressed =)
In my experience the amount of nicotine effects the amount of throat hit you get. I use a Nautilus Mini and MVP 2 so I can't produce big clouds so may be that's why I need a high nicotine mix to get that throat hit? I use 30% nicotine in my juices taken from 100mg nicotine base. I get my nicotine from MFS and when it arrived it was clear, 9 months later it's now yellow after numerous openings of the bottle but I have not noticed any difference in taste.
You vape 30mg/ml juice? I think I'd lose a lung and pass out from the head rush.
Wouldn't 30% be 300mg/ml? If so, that's unreal
You might be kidding but I nearly experienced your perceived pains. I use a Kennedy around .6Ω. My juice never has more than a 2mg nic level. A friend of mine had bought some new juice...and I'd forgotten he vapes at 14mg. He asked me if I wanted to try his new juice. I dripped a bit of it and took a huge hit. I was high as a kite just after my five minute coughing fit subsided.
On the nicotine sources, you obviously have the best listed. I am curious on the opinion of nicotine from some of the sources listed on the side bar.
MFS, Bull City Vapor, Ecig Express, etc. I may jump into this in the next few months so I am not sure where those land if anyone has experience. I doubt many know where they source theirs from.
BCV sold VapersTek nicotine which is excellent!
LiquidBarn is another nic source not listed that is also very good in my experience
BCV no longer sells nicotine. MFS and ECX have been supplying nicotine for a very long time but IMPE, the quality is quite varied. It seems to me as though they mix a 55 gallon drum and bottle it when orders come in or something similar. I've never received clear high quality nicotine from either, just your standard run of the mill slightly oxidized, slightly yellow stuff.
Most of those are small-volume resellers. Most of the vendors listed extract their own, though I know at least 1 of the 4 listed uses chinese-sourced nicotine.
Agreed. But, as someone looking to get into DIY that is what I am going to be buying, starting off, is small quantities.
You can definitely purchase from re-sellers, the issue you may, and I mean may, it's definitely not all the time, is if the re-seller has been sitting on the same product for 3-6 months before you order, you may receive a slightly oxidized batch.
Results will vary from vendor to vendor.
This. I don't have a problem with most re-sellers, many of them offer a great product, personally, I'be had very mixed experiences with them though (some great batches, other terrible), because of this, I now prefer to go direct to the source and purchase consistent materials.
As /u/kirkt mentions in another comment, you can find good quality nicotine at re-sellers like Wizard Labs (I ordered from them for the first 6 months or so that I DiY'd). Solid product (one slightly oxidized batch) but all around not bad for the price.
Okay I have a super noob question. A few friends want to but juice from me but they want nicotine. How do I go about calculating it with my weight calculator for a given recipe that I've already made? I'm planning on getting 100mg pure PG nicotine, so I assume I subtract what I need from the PG amount, but how do I know how to get like 6mg juice done from that?
I don't know if that makes any sense. I never bothered learning about this since I vape 0mg. Perhaps it might even be in the sidebar.
Plug it into one of the recipe calculators. I recommend using the third one listed in the sidebar.
Cool. Yeah that's what I already use for my calculator so that's easy. Any recommendations for vendors that carry a small amount of nicotine solution? Most of the ones you mentioned above seem to do half liters as the most, and since I'll only be making this for two people I probably don't need much.
Respectfully stirred, not shaken. Air is nicotine's kryptonite.
How come wizardlab's nicotine isn't on the list? Something wrong with it I should be aware of?
Not necessarily but I've personally received oxidized batches from them before. The companies that I've listed in this post are first and foremost nicotine suppliers. Wizard Labs does not fall into that category.
I could have listed Wizard Labs along with 40 other vendors, they just don't make the top four list though and I didn't want to expand to every possible vendor that exists.
I've been ordering from them for 3 years and never received an oxidized batch. They seal their nicotine with argon.
Good stuff. As I said, nothing against them at all and I believe they are a great all around vendor. Just not making the top 4 from me.
FWIW, have you ever tried the nic from the vendors I'be listed above? Barely discernible differences at say 1mg but at 3-6 it's certainly noticeable. More so noticeable when you use something like VapersTek or Vape Clarity for a month or two, then try to go back to using your WL nic and choke on the harshness (at least that was my experience).
So I ordered PG based 250mg/ml nic once. And it smelled like cum. Is this supposed to happen?
If you smelled it ... you aren't very bright...
What should you use to transfer the nic to the 30ml amber glass bottles?
Whatever you want?
I just pour it but I re-pack in 120ml amber packer bottles so it's a bit easier...
Would a small funnel be a good idea? I just dont want to get nic everywhere/all over the bottle if I spill it.
what about the storage of VG and PG?
is it smarter to just buy fresh VG than to stock up on it?
This is useful for those mixing by volume.
-
Does nicotine oxidize faster in VG than PG?
-
Does nicotine oxidize slower if it is more diluted?
Both of these claims have been made, but I'm skeptical.
Another quick question: Can I premix all of my pg, vg, and flavoring at 0nic and let it steep and then add my nicotine a few days later? Right now my nicotine isn't in yet but I'd like to get a head start on a few recipes for friends.
Thank you so much for this post.
A couple of questions:
I'm planning on ordering .5L 100mg from VapeClarity. I only vape 1.5 or 3mg, so most it is going to be frozen for a long time. I'm moving across the country in a couple of months, is it going to degrade the nicotine if it all unthaws and is refrozen when the move is complete?
Also, any suggestions for where to order amber glass bottles for storage? I haven't had much luck with most of the glass bottles I've ordered. I only need 15~
Amazon for small quantities. Try to keep some ice packs on it during the move. Warming up won't hurt it anymore than it being left out for a few days without being cold first. FWIW, it's not frozen in the freezer, just much less viscous.
So... I've been doing DIY for about a year (maybe 2? It's hard to keep track of time) and I have had 2 liters of 100mg nicotine sitting on my desk, being opened several times per week for the duration of that time... I've never used a test kit. My nicotine is a maroonish brown color. Is this a health concern? Or is the oxidation just fucking with my flavors in some way?
How concerned should I be?
Great post, I have a question related to testing.
So my country has a ban on nicotine for individuals, I am able to buy it from some local vendors who import so that's not really a problem. The problem is that since individuals having nicotine solution is illegal I had no luck finding nicotine tests available. Buying overseas is really expensive right now and I would also gave the risk of the government sending it back.
Is there a titration kit or anything of that sort that is generic enough for me to buy? Maybe I could buy the kit chemical separate and diy the kit? I used to work on a company that sold equipment to test all sort of chemicals, so I have some idea on the basics but my chemistry is severely lacking.
Same as a pool titration/test kit. You can find the chemicals you need from any pool supply store. I believe the acid in the pool kits is slightly more concentrated but it's the same process.
Thanks for doing this thread. I'm going to make some orders in a couple of weeks. I'd like to cheat and use some pre-mixed vg/pg/nic base the first month to get right into safely mixing and to save money. I'll probably only need 500ml to 1000ml.
Are there any sites that have 70vg/30pg bases with nicotine added that you could recommend for me in the short term? Do you think Velvet Clouds vg/nic base is any good? Are there any juice calculators that you can change to use a pre made base? Thanks
Third recipe calculator in the sidebar allows you to use any pre-mix base you want.
Nude Nicotine offers any PG/VG ratio with virtually any nic level you want.
I don't know anything about Velvet Clouds base.
So with nude nicotine's base the only thing that changes is the pg? If you choose 70/30 & %15 flavoring they would compensate with only putting half the pg in your mix? Do you think I'd be able to use a juice calculator with this type of base?
This is a great post, thank you. No EU vendors, though, but considering you haven't probably had any experience with them.. Seeing this in the sidebar, it would be nice if that kind of information was available in this post.
This comment comes from the crankiness from buying 500 ml+ of 100mg/ml nicotine and only later discovering that it's all pre-oxidized.
Two questions:
-
My nicotine has a slight peppery smell but is clear, is it good?
-
When is nicotine not safe to vape?
Wish you would have not put nude nicotine in there at all! They screwed with a 13 day delivery time! I thought 7 days would be plenty!, and after almost double that I was lied to! They said we resent your package today, and did they! Nope Chris just flat out lied to me! So any type of compensation at all? HELL NO I will never buy there again! Go ahead and buy from them if you support them treating customer like crap! Thanks for they great informative post!
Okay, I need help. I hope someone sees this. I've tried, but failed to quantify the nicotine weight using my new scale despite weighing a ml and despite doing the math. I have a 500ml bottle of 36mg nicotine suspended in 100% VG.
My math says 2.25g per ml according to this calculation, but I used 1.25 in a mix and it was strong. Like holy shit strong knocked my ex-smoker boyfriend out of breath strong.
Someone please save my inept brain. I'm right-brained and dumb apparently. Nicotine is from Vape Clarity if it matters.
VG weighs 1.26 grams per ml
Nic weighs 1.01 grams per ml
Your solution is 3.6% nicotine, 96.4% VG.
1.21464 + 0.03636 = 1.251 grams per ml
Okay, so something else must be going on with my process. I did forget to shake it. Does VG suspension really separate that much, though?
Thank you. Almost ruined a 120ml Bronuts (I split it in half and filled the rest with VG to dilute. Tastes fine but still strong, but tolerable.)
Thanks so much for the post! Just got my half liter of 36mg 100% PG from vape clarity and have it divided in amber bottles in my freezer. Getting ready to mix some juice with some good nicotine for once!
Hi everyone, I've been mixing with 100mg nicotine for around a year, and go through up to a couple of liters a month. I have a few questions as I found I've developed "nicotine anxiety" when I have a heavy day of mixing ahead of me, and maybe you guys can help. I ran into a thread that suggests nicotine may permeate through latex gloves, is this true? From my understanding nic suspended in pg vg should not be airborne and doesn't require a flow hood, am I safe mixing a couple of hundred bottles without a mask? I know the lethal dose is probably somewhere around 1000mg absorbed, but that LD50 at 60mg is always in the back of my mind.
> am I safe mixing a couple of hundred bottles without a mask?
I do it all the time with no problem. Only time I throw the mask on is when I'm breaking it down out of 1 liter - 1 gallon containers into something smaller. Putting into final mix bottles shouldn't an issue as a very minimal amount is exposed to the air you are inhaling.
As far as gloves go, you should be fine, I just try not to spill and always clean up immediately if it's more than a drop.
Sorry for posting so many months after the original thread. I placed my first order of DIY stuff a few days ago and should be getting it soon.
I'm glad to see ordering the nicotine test kit was in fact a great idea (I did it out of concern for my own mixes/mishaps).
I ordered 120mL of 60mg PG based nicotine from wizard labs.
I will be making mixes mostly for myself and might give a buddy of mine a few who already does DIY and has given me a few mixes in the past. My boyfriend might try a few hits or so here and there but most of it will be for my own use.
I currently vape at 6mg.
Here are the questions:
I know I could probably do the math but some of you probably know off the top of your head. If I typically vape about 10mL a day give or take how long should my 120mL bottle last roughly accounting for a few unvapable mistakes that most noobies make?
Was ordering my nicotine from wizard labs a good choice? Why or why not?
Are there companies that make their nicotine from non-tobacco derived sources? If so who are they and does it taste different?
> I know I could probably do the math but some of you probably know off the top of your head. If I typically vape about 10mL a day give or take how long should my 120mL bottle last roughly accounting for a few unvapable mistakes that most noobies make?
60mg being used @ 6mg is a 10% dilution. So your have enough nic to vape 1200ml or 1.2L of finished juice. At 10ml a day that's enough for 120 days.
> Was ordering my nicotine from wizard labs a good choice? Why or why not?
It was neither a good choice nor a bad choice. It purely depends on your situation. I would recommend trying out some other vendors in 4 months once this batch of nicotine runs out so you can compare to other vendors product quality and decide for yourself where you may like to source from in the future.
> Are there companies that make their nicotine from non-tobacco derived sources? If so who are they and does it taste different?
I couldn't say definitively, but all of the ones I know of are tobacco derived.
P.S. Welcome to the rabbit hole.
Hi Botboy!
I was reading through some posts and came across this comment thread. Specifically /u/billyneutron's post about editing this for /u/nudenicotine.
I've ordered my nic from NN before, during, and after that issue and have never had a problem. I agree that they shouldn't be shamed for a year old problem that was likely a one in a million problem with the nic settling in the VG.
The nicotine post is simply a review and it doesn't discuss anything that isn't true. I'll speak to Jake (he called me earlier) but he also hasn't requested to be a verified vendor so not really looking to go out of my way. Their shipping time and the fact Jake only calls when he wants something from me, but doesn't return my phone calls when I need something from him, makes me unlikely to expend effort to assist them.
So the only question that remains in my first diy journey is the nic base. I drip and use tanks, in each I prefer about 80/20 vg/pg. So basically my question is does it even matter what the base is? If I enter my end goal in my recipe calculator, It will give me my end goal, correct? So even if I prefer a higher vg ratio I still add the pg as a dilutant? This is the only thing confusing me and I can't find an answer that works for my brain. Thanks
This is an AMAZING post, I hope it finds it's way to the FAQ
I'm still very new to DIY and thank you for the tips about keeping it in a paper bag and not in the door (mine was just in a zip lock inside the door. I however do have a question I was pondering today during mixing... when I got mine I shook the hell out of it then split it into 30ml brown glass bottles, been using one till it was gone (hopefully keeping the rest fresh) then moved to the next one now... when I start mixing I sit it out of the freezer but when I'm done with all other then adding the nic (my last step lately) I toss it in a hot water bath to make the 100%vg easier to shake... will this degrade my nic I mean it's getting sub freezing then a 100°+ bath at-least 3 times a week
Just leave your current batch in the fridge or sitting out don't stick it back in the freezer. It's probably worse to warm it up to 100F than it is to leave it at 70-75F.
Leaving it out means it's always ready to mix as well.
I'll start keeping the current one in the fridge, but I fear it'll still be a pain in the ass to shake when taken out at that temp (32-40° F) Maybey next time I'll get PG so this isn't as much of an issue... I'm a cheap skate and/or poor so I don't really run AC unless it's to hot to stand in my house and never when I'm at work so it will easily get and stay mid 80s during the day so I don't think leaving it out is the best idea at-least for another month or so. would it be possible to link me any scientific documents/video on nicotine and the effects of heat? (yes i'm a nerd and want to know all the details) Or perhaps I'll just check into how a magnetic stirrer works ie these are just 1 oz bottles of nic what kinda metal rod can it stir that small, or perhaps my current understanding is completely wrong
There are a lot of studies and articles and posts around if you search. Most had been linked at some point over on ECF.
Too lazy to do it for you.
A magnetic stirrer wouldn't be bad but with VG based nic, it wouldn't be able to stir at all without heat.