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Pumpkin Spiced Latte Help Please! Almost Perfect!
submitted about 10 years ago by alrahm

I know, I know. It's that time again. The girlfriend really wants it, and I feel like it's possible. Well almost...

Here's the thing: I'm really struggling to get the pumpkin to pop! Found some recipes online and I'm trying to make a ~~better~~ good version. Here's the recipe (as of now) that I'm working on:

Pumpkin Spice Latte (V1)

  • Pumpkin (TPA) - 10%

  • Bavarian Cream (TPA) - 3%

  • Cappuccino (TPA) - 1%

  • Caramel (TPA) - 1%

  • Marshmallow (TPA) - 1%

  • Cinnamon Danish (TPA) - 1 Drop Per 10ml

  • Holiday Spice (TPA) - 1 Drop Per 10ml (Thinking of omitting this)

Just about everything is on point for what I'm going for, but that damned pumpkin will not dominate. I feel like even at 10% it's a background note.

The Holiday Spice is... interesting. Very powerful and adds an almost fruit cake flavor to it. Still deciding if it's working with this mix or not. I feel it will if the pumpkin can take the main stage!

So what do you do to make the pumpkin more pronounced? I have just about every TPA/TFA flavor on hand.

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7 points
 
by billgarmsarmyabout 10 years agoFrugivore

i'm by no means an expert on this, but i've spent the last little bit of time reading up on pumpkin spice from a molecule standpoint. the basic makeup of pumpkin spice is: cinnamon, nutmeg, allspice, cloves, ginger, and perhaps burnt maple/buttery stuff/vanillin.

what i found really interesting was that while "natural" pumpkin spice may contain 300+ flavor molecules, our brain is really good about "filling in the blanks" when presented with just 5-10% of those molecules. so you get only 5-10% of the flavors in "natural" pumpkin spice, but your brain interpolates the rest of them and says "hey! pumpkin pie!"

so, going through TFA's spec sheets and searching CAS numbers i'm gonna take a stab at making a pumpkin spice flavor. here are some notes:

  • Gingerbread -- Cinnamon, Vanillin, Terpenes (nutmeg), Eugenol (clove/allspice) + Coconut/Nut/Macadamia notes, Maltol, A+AP (Yup, no ginger molecules)

  • Chai Tea (might make a good base, several sources say if one attempts pumpkin spice using dry herbs it is more akin to chai than actual pumpkin spice) -- Ethyl Vanillin/Vanillin, Terpenes, Eugenol + trace/minor floral notes, citrus notes, eucalyptus notes, fruit notes

  • Pumpkin Spice - Cinnamon, Eugenol + EM, Acetoin, Coconut/Cream notes. (Will probably skip this)

  • RY4 Double (not for base notes, but accents) -- EM, Cyclotene (maple), Vanillin (that's all that's in RY4D btw)

  • Lemon -- Terpenes

  • Cinnamon -- Tons of cinnamon, trace notes of eugenol, citrus, and terpenes.

  • Cinnamon Red Hot -- Cinnamon, trace fruit and eugenol

  • Clove - EUGENOL + PG

TFA does not appear to carry any flavors with ginger molecules: Zingerone, Zingiberene, Gingerol, or Shogaol. Will look into NF Ginger + others.

I'm very interested to see what a mix of Chai Tea + Gingerbread + RY4 + Lemon yields. Putting in orders now for these and a few other flavors.

edit:

I've also compiled some ratio notes from cooking recipes:

Cinnamon|Ginger|Nutmeg|Cloves|Allspice :---|---:|---:|---:|---: 4|2|1|0|1 8|2|2|1|0 12|4|4|1|0 18|4|4|3|3

5 points
 
by alrahmabout 10 years ago

Holy shit! I didn't intend for anyone to research for me, I really appreciate it!

That sounds like a crazy mix, but when broken down it makes sense, I'll go double check I got everything and check it out!

I've got some really strong ginger flavoring, I'll dilute the hell out of it and see what I can come up with.

Thanks again!

5 points
 
by billgarmsarmyabout 10 years agoFrugivore

No problem! Research is what I do for a job, so it's nice to research something I want for a change.

4 points
 
by billgarmsarmyabout 10 years agoFrugivore

> I have just about every TPA/TFA flavor on hand.

I didn't catch this part. I would be extremely interested in your thoughts if you decide to play around with these flavors.

5 points
 
by alrahmabout 10 years ago

Just checked, I've got them all. Only thing is that I've got Gingerbread Cookie, and not gingerbread.

I'm gonna mix up a little tester right now and see what this smells like.

5 points
 
by PartySundayabout 10 years ago

http://www.ift.org/Knowledge-Center/Learn-About-Food-Science/Food-Facts/Pumpkin-Spice-101.aspx

It seems as though, if you successfully made a pumpkin spice latte recipe you should sell it because according to that article which another user led to me by mentioning that they don't use pumpkin flavor in pumpkin spice, it contains ~300 flavor molecules. Keep in mind each flavor is not one flavor molecule but a mixture of many. It could end up being impossible to recreate pumpkin spice simply using the mixes of flavor molecules at our disposal from the various vendors since it could be a combination only possible with a perfect ratio of the pure molecules which are mostly unknown to us.

Or you could just say fuck it and ask the staff at your local coffee shop to fill your girlfriend's vape up with pumpkin spice syrup and add nicotine to that shit.

Finish it off by making a scene in the coffee shop about how she expects too much of you, wanting you to accomplish the work of many flavor scientists collaborating in a laboratory setting on your own in your house.

3 points
 
by skiddlzninjaabout 10 years agoFrugivore

> Or you could just say fuck it and ask the staff at your local coffee shop to fill your girlfriend's vape up with pumpkin spice syrup and add nicotine to that shit.

/r/shitty_diy_ejuice

3 points
 
by billgarmsarmyabout 10 years agoFrugivore

i mean, here's a start: cinnamic aldehydes for cinnamon, eugenol for clove or allspice, terpenes such as sabinene for nutmeg, and zingiberene for ginger. They may also contain vanillin and cyclotene for the burnt butter or maple notes to round off the flavor.

1 points
 
by TotesMessengerabout 10 years ago

I'm a bot, bleep, bloop. Someone has linked to this thread from another place on reddit:

^(If you follow any of the above links, please respect the rules of reddit and don't vote in the other threads.) ^(Info ^/ ^Contact)

0 points
 
by alrahmabout 10 years ago

Damn super helpful! I should have done a more thorough googling. Now I have a perfect excuse as to why I can't make it for her!

I really like your second idea, way more fun then just mixing up a flavor. Lemme just eyeball some 100mg/ml for her hahah

Thanks for the lulz!

-2 points
 
by tranceinateabout 10 years agoMixologist

A strawberry has over 50 aroma molecules responsible for making it a strawberry, but it only takes about 10 molecules to make a flavouring reminiscent of strawberry.

BTW: I have a pumpkin spice concentrate. It's not any brand that anyone here on reddit knows of. Put a drop or two of the resulting juice on your coil & you can taste it for hours. Shit is ridiculously strong, & it's spot-on pumpkin spice.

2 points
 
by billgarmsarmyabout 10 years agoFrugivore

congrats?

-2 points
 
by tranceinateabout 10 years agoMixologist

I asked for zero concrapulations.

4 points
 
by skiddlzninjaabout 10 years agoFrugivore

Drop the pumpkin to 5%, add 1% hazelnut and let it steep for 2 weeks. Also drop the holiday spice, and replace it with cinnamon danish.

0 points
 
by alrahmabout 10 years ago

I'll give that a shot! Thanks a lot!

2 points
 
by skiddlzninjaabout 10 years agoFrugivore

No problem. 10% was probably too high, and muting itself. If you lower the percentage and let it steep, you're almost guaranteed to end up with a better result.

1 points
 
by alrahmabout 10 years ago

I've just been playing with it for awhile now and it never seems to develop that rich squash flavor of an actual pumpkin. The hazelnut makes so much sense!

I'm glad you said this, I felt crazy for using 10%!

2 points
 
by TheAlmightyDabout 10 years ago

I'm loving pumpkin pie spice tpa at the moment, imo better than holiday spice. A bit less potent also. I diluted holiday spice at 10% in pg so I was using between 0.5-2% which comes out as 0.05-0.2% of the flavouring. That should allow you to get the exact spice amount you're looking for.

4 points
 
by returnityabout 10 years agoArmchair Flavorist

This is a tough one, and frankly, /u/billgarmsarmy did a lot of the work I'd have done for you, so thank that man profusely -- that DeeperDIY info is super-useful! Personally, I'd go with CAP Pumpkin Pie (Spice) or TFA Gingerbread as the lead note in my pumpkin spice latte. As others have said, there's really no pumpkin flavors in pumpkin spice, but my all means leave it in there. NF Ginger really would be a smart buy, and I've heard good things about INW Spicy Biscuit too (a gingerbread type cookie flavor).

To complement & enhance the Pumpkin flavor directly:

  • Nature's Flavors offers an organic, alcohol-based Pumpkin Pie flavoring extract](http://www.naturesflavors.com/organic-pumpkin-pie-flavor-extract-without-diacetyl/p60405/).

  • LA offers a Pumpkin & a Butternut (or similar name? it's the only squash flavor I know of) flavor that might help.

  • TFA Yam (Sweet Potato tastes much like Pumpkin)

  • FA Maple Syrup/Butterscotch/Molasses (maple/butterscotch notes will help enhance the pumpkin).

  • Silver Cloud Estates (sold on Amazon) flavorings makes a highly-regarded Pumpkin Pie flavor.

If I think of any others, I'll let you know -- maybe TFA Taro, but that's a long shot, I think.

2 points
 
by billgarmsarmyabout 10 years agoFrugivore

I got this idea so stuck in my head, I went ahead and ordered pumpkin pie and ginger direct from NF even though I generally try not to spend that much on any significant quantity of flavoring. Especially flavoring I've never used.

2 points
 
by alrahmabout 10 years ago

Lemme know how yours comes out! I'm going to be ordering said flavors as well, this TFA/TPA stuff feels way more complicated then it needs to be!

2 points
 
by billgarmsarmyabout 10 years agoFrugivore

here's what i picked up:

TFA Gingerbread

TFA Gingerbread Cookie

TFA Lemon

TFA Pumpkin

TFA Clove

TFA Holiday Spice

TFA Chai

CAP Pumpkin Pie (Spice)

CAP Gingerbread

CAP Chai Tea

FW Pumpkin Spice

FW Gingerbread

FW Ginger

FA Cappuccino

FA Coffee Espresso

FA Jamaican Rum

FA Clove

NF Pumpkin Pie

NF Ginger

2 points
 
by alrahmabout 10 years ago

Yeah I wasn't expecting anyone to put in that much work! Above and beyond for sure.

And thank you for all the advice as well. Love this subreddit!

With what we came up with it's smelling pretty on point, except the pumpkin needs to come out more. Currently steeping like 6 variations and I'll report back in 2 weeks!

And thanks so much for the DeeperDIY posts. Such good reads and valuable information! Infinite upvotes!

I will take your suggestions and do an order of flavors!

3 points
 
by abdadaabout 10 years ago

A touch of rum flavor might help accent the pumpkin.

1 points
 
by alrahmabout 10 years ago

I'm going to try the method above, adding hazelnut, and I'll see how that come out. I'll make a second tester with the rum! Thanks for your suggestion!

2 points
 
by christophersonabout 10 years ago

FW Jamaican Rum might be perfect. Im so trying this

2 points
 
by grrumble66about 10 years ago

There was a thread last fall that was talking about there being absolutely no pumpkin in Starbucks' Pumpkin Latte. Wish I could remember who it was. :(

3 points
 
by skiddlzninjaabout 10 years agoFrugivore

Pumpkin spice has no relation to pumpkin in any way. It is simply spices that are good in pumpkin pie.

Pumpkin (spice) Latte*

1 points
 
by alrahmabout 10 years ago

Crazy to me. humbling to think I can make great flavors and have fun with it, but at the end of the day, I don't know shit!

Thanks!

2 points
 
by christophersonabout 10 years ago

On my phone and on the go but I'll quickly suggest Capella's Pumpkin Pie over TFA pumpkin. I like it much better

1 points
 
by alrahmabout 10 years ago

Yeah I figured that TPAs wouldn't be the best, it's just what I've got right now :/

Thanks!

2 points
 
by ThirdWorldOrderabout 10 years ago

I'm not sure if you know this, but Capella makes a pumpkin spice that you may want to experiment with

2 points
 
by hotwingsandcoldbeerabout 10 years agoTobacconist

It would be perfect here but be careful with it, it's potent stuff. I dilute it to 10%.

2 points
 
by alrahmabout 10 years ago

I do, just trying to work through what I have on hand already.

Thanks!

2 points
 
by Furyxusabout 10 years ago

No one wanna mention nude nicotine's pumpkin velvet? 0.5% and lowering the pumpkin to 5-7% will do you some wonders.

2 points
 
by PoopStainMcBaineabout 10 years ago

I don't even like pumpkin spice at all but I definitely learned alot on this thread.

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