So the other day I mentioned how I'd never had an issue with ELM...
Well fuck me.
I placed a ~$300 order through them on 7/13/15 expecting the usual service of 1-2 days to ship, then receive 3 business days later.
Well they did ship my order, eventually, they shipped on 7/17/15 so I ordered on Monday, they shipped on Friday, scheduled for Thursday delivery. Nothing major out of the question there, slower than I'd like, but not the end of the world. The transit time is on me not on them, as I selected the free shipping option.
The reason why I am so upset is that this order included 500ml of FA Vienna Cream which I am currently completely out of stock on (and can't fill orders...I was in stock at the time of placing the order but quickly dwindling). I received an email from them TODAY, 4 days after the order was picked up by UPS, 9 days after the order was placed and paid for, that they are out of stock on Vienna Cream and it's not in this shipment.
So yeah, now I'm fucked. I HIGHLY ADVISE NOT USING ELM FOR YOUR DIY NEEDS
Their email to me today:
> 21st Jul 2015 @ 11:58 AM
> E-liquid Mart Said:
> Hi,
> Your order has been shipped out, however the Vienna cream flavor is on back order and will be shipped out when available.
> Regards,
> Cindy
No alternative resolutions offered (refund anyone?) No Estimated Date of Delivery. And 4 days after the order shipped they send this email? WTF is this...
And my tracking information for reference on when the order was shipped:
Location Date Local Time Activity
Baldwin Park, CA, United States 07/17/2015 9:42 P.M. Departure Scan
07/17/2015 7:55 P.M. Origin Scan
07/17/2015 5:05 P.M. The shipment has been dropped off and is now at a UPS Retail Location.
United States 07/17/2015 7:32 P.M. Order Processed: Ready for UPS
An order you recently placed on our website has had its status changed.
The status of order #xxxx is now Shipped
Order Details
Order Total: $276.05 USD
Date Placed: 13th Jul 2015
Edit: As much as I'd love to put them out of business, a "crusade" to put them out of business is not my intent, I'm too busy honestly, I just want to make sure everyone here knows not to expect much from this company, especially from their customer service
Edit 2:
Just want to add what's posted on their "About Us" page.
> All our products are IN STOCK and ready to be shipped within 24 hours of placing your order. Our shipping department provides a variety of shipping methods. Whether you need the products fast, or cheap, we offer the service available at your selection.
> Our knowledgeable staff believes in excellent customer service, and we pride ourselves for having one of the biggest marketplaces of all your e-liquid needs.
Oh and lastly:
> “Save money, smoke happier”
Guessing these folks don't even vape...
Shit like this is why I don't run a business that requires me to ship and receive anything. One mistake and someone gets a hair up their ass and goes on a mission to "destroy" the business I've built over the years.
I get the aggravation, and I understand the impact it has on you. They certainly could do more to alleviate the situation. Still, you're being a little over the top.
What comes around, goes around. This goes both ways. They'll get theirs. If you attempt to reciprocate vindictively then you aren't doing much better. Just don't give them your business in the future. Don't go on some asshole crusade just because you're upset. You're better than that.
Just my two copper.
It's not a hair up the ass when they drop the ball. And if shit like this is what you're wanting to pull then damn well enough you don't run a business. All the guy is doing is warning about shitty business practices which all vape subs I visit happen to love doing.
> One mistake and someone gets a hair up their ass
This was not one mistake. One mistake would be allowing me to place an order for an out of stock product.
- They let me place the order
- Captured my credit card (confirmed the payment)
- Shipped two thirds of my order
- Closed out the order (clicked complete or likewise in their system)
- Emailed me 4 days later telling me they didn't actually process my order
- In this email they didn't provide an ETA of the product
- They didn't offer a refund
- They didn't offer an apology
By my count that's 8 mistakes. Yes it was a single order, but it was 8 failures to properly operate their business on a single order.
I agree what comes around goes around. I've never left a bad review for a company in my life. I definitely won't give them my business in the future and I'm on no crusade other than defending my comments in this thread regarding how terrible of a company they are to do business with.
Lastly, I'll say this: it's not like this was an average DIY order where a 15ml bottle of Vienna Cream not showing up would be no big deal. This was an order containing all 4oz+ sizes of bottles and 500ml of a single flavor. This is an obvious flag to them that this flavor is being used for more than just personal use and that this order and the response to the out of stock should have been handled in a much more professional and timely manner than it was.
> You're better than that.
My OP was a bit harsh, but I stand by every comment I've made in this thread.
Edit: I should also add that I responded to their email about 10 minutes after receiving it asking for more details, ETA on delivery, other options, and requested an email or phone call back ASAP. That was 14 hours ago (NOON CST) and I've yet to receive a response.
Hey man, can't believe you're getting flak for this. Seems their customer service has been lacking for more than just you, thanks for sharing this with everyone despite the haters. With so many places to order flavors from nowadays it is inexcusable that a company has a history of such bad CS and the way I see it there's no reason to visit sites that absolutely don't care about keeping you as a customer. I'll know to continue going elsewhere for my business.
Although I agree with you partially, this company completely deserves the bad attention. Worst customer service of any site I've used. They don't even apologize when they fuck up. Sure, most of the time they're fine, but when they fuck up... they fuck up big. And usually take a LONG time to correct it, much less even respond to emails.
(Note to self... place a large order for Vienna Cream) :)
Ouch. I've never ordered from them, and probably wouldn't have anyway, but failures in communication like this are inexcusable. An email is easy, and goes a long way.
That's all it would have taken and I'd have been happy as a clam. Now instead, I have to email my customers that have pending orders, explaining why the emails I sent them yesterday saying their orders would ship on Friday, now won't ship at all (unless I can find someone local with a large supply of FA Vienna Cream).
On top of that, they didn't even supply an ETA of when I would receive it.
> 21st Jul 2015 @ 11:58 AM
> E-liquid Mart Said:
> Hi,
> Your order has been shipped out, however the Vienna cream flavor is on back order and will be shipped out when available.
> Regards,
> Cindy
http://www.ecigexpress.com/wholesale-e-cig/wholesale-flavoring-diy/flavourart-flavor-wholesale/flavourart-non-tobacco-bulk-500ml.html
Also, http://www.rtsvapes.com/Vienna_Cream_Flavor_p/c249-500.htm
Yeah I don't buy from RTS typically just cause I don't like the vials, waiting to hear back from ECX at the moment (my last package from them was lost in the mail (shows delivered 4 days ago...sigh)...As soon as they respond to that ticket, I'll place the order and have them include what was lost on the last order.
Order 250ml or larger, and it's plastic.
I gave up on ECX a couple of years ago because they shrank all their available sizes while increasing the price. That by itself wouldn't have been too bad, but they didn't adjust their filling machines correctly, and I got several large nic bottles that were overfilled and completely covered in high MG/ML nicotine. Then they sent me the wrong item and made me pay shipping to send it back as well as additional shipping just to receive the item I originally paid for as a replacement.
One mistake and you make it your mission to destroy a business. Hope your customers are more forgiving in the event you make a mistake.
When I make a mistake, I communicate. I don't ship someone's order 50% light of what was ordered and then tell them 4 days later like it's no big deal.
I understand your frustration. I would also be upset. I just don't agree with publicly shaming and trying to destroy a company. I wanted to make that known because integrity and stuff.
I've had mostly good experiences with them. However, they gave me a wrong bottle, and it took almost a month to get it fixed.
Their customer service is GARBAGE. I was lied to multiple times via e-mail claiming the replacement had been sent out. When I checked the date after it arrived, it was after my last e-mail had been sent and replied to.
I won't be making a large purchase from them again. I've made one purchase since, for Torone, cuz I couldn't find it anywhere else.
I have a 30 ml bottle of torrone that I need to sell. I bought 4oz of it but I'll never be able to use it all.
On the bright side... Those who receive that e-mail now know you use Vienna Cream in that mix ;D
~80% of my mixes are public anyways =)
If I somehow missed a recipe for GGG Maniacal Mango I'd probably jump off the Ambassador Bridge. In January.
It's all about the customer service. The customer is paying their paycheck. Their email just goes to show their lack of shit they give.
Do you order through their website? It seems strange that you wouldn't know before placing the order that they're out of stock. Whenever I want some cream fresh I know well in advance that I can't have any. Forever.
I've had issues with them as well. My first order, somehow, multiplied my vanilla tahiti order x6. I just took the loss because I'll use them eventually and I though MAYBE it was user error during checkout.
Nope.
Luckily I double checked my next order before I checked out because there were 3 lemon sicily's in my cart.
Sorry for your troubles. I'm with you, but I doubt very much that they'll miss my little bit of business.
I'm on the fence with them since my last order a month ago. I got a bunch of 5ml testers, including a 5ml of FA Black Cherry. Everything was correct except they sent 5ml of Blackberry instead of Black Cherry. Honest mistake, considering the similar spelling. As soon as I got my order, I emailed them.
Cindy emailed back and said "Just make a note in your next order and we'll send it out with it." Umm..no? I don't have a huge budget and didn't plan on ordering again until a month from that day. I had to jump through hoops (literally!!!! Okay..maybe not) to get them to send it out by itself. I was nice about it, she seemed a little annoyed, but they eventually did send it a few days later, and upped it from 5ml to 15ml. Appreciated, but if I owned a business and got a mixup, I would be unable to fulfill an order.
So..I'm still not sure if I'll order from them in the future. I've placed about 10 orders through them without issue until then.
Shit... I had already purchased FA Rasp from them in a previous large order, on my next order I purchased CAP Rasp. They sent me another FA instead. They made me send pictures, which fine. Then 4 days later said it would be shipped out same day. Needless to say, I emailed them roughly every 4 to 7 days, wait days to get a response, and each time they told me usps fuck up and is slow, to wait another week. When it finally arrived, they hadn't shipped it until after my final reply. Yea, shitty CS. Seems to be a recurring pattern, always issues with whoever is answering the emails. One person answering emails can destroy a company.
I think a lot of it has to do with who's picking from the inventory. It's not necessarily the person you're in contact with, but they do have the chance to make you a happy repeat customer, or dissuade you from using their company again. In ELM's case, it seems like they've just been overwhelmed in the past few months and they're probably a small facility and staff trying to do damage control at this point.
I'm sure I'll probably give them another shot in the future when I inevitably find a store out of stock on a flavor, but I don't see myself submitting a large order anytime soon. They're too inconsistent.
This sort of thing is easily avoidable, if retailers would keep better track of keeping there stock available up to date on their website. I get mistakes happen, but I would also flip in this situation. If I was making a Lemon Pie, order everything from retailer X because their site said it was in stock... then I get notified AFTER my order left that there were no lemons. Well what the fuck good is that then! I could of gone somewhere else in the first place.
" I HIGHLY ADVISE NOT USING ELM FOR YOUR DIY NEEDS"
well ELM is probably fine for my DIY needs, but It's probably not good for the needs of e-liquid business owners
My question is if you're ordering in such bulk, why not order directly from the manufacture:
http://www.flavourart.co.uk/flavour-concentrates.html
https://usa.capellaflavors.com/ A bit pricey for bulk, a 4oz bottle is 19.95 but generally takes less of the flavoring to do what you want. In other words truly concentrated flavors.
https://shop.perfumersapprentice.com/ Order Date: 3/31/2015 5:58:32 PM Delivered On: Wednesday, 04/08/2015 at 12:33 P.M 24 Different Flavors All 4oz bottles SubTotal: $176.00 Shipping: UPS Ground $14.78 Tax: $0.00 Total: $190.78
I order direct from the manufacturer's quite frequently. It was not the best option in this particular scenario due to the size of the order and the timeframe in which I was looking to have it delivered. The 500ml they didn't ship with this order was enough to tie me over for 2-3 weeks at best, I have another 2L on order direct from Italy but that'll take 3-4 weeks with the way FA has been lately.
So essentially what you're stating is a lack of planning on your part constituted all this? I truly understand that a lack of customer service on a companies part can cause a problem. It's very hard to convey emotion through simple words especially when it may be a canned message. This same exact situation happened with TPA directly in the very same exact manor that just happened to you, but I didn't come on here talking bad about a company "E-Liquid Mart Can Go Fuck Themselves..." You may want to convey your problem to the owner of the company not the world and give them a chance to respond before stating something like that on a very public website. You also need to take a bit of responsibility for your own lack of planning into a situation you let yourself get into. You have a business to run and making sure you take care of your customers which means that you don't wait until the last minute to order supplies or bite the bullet and pay for the expedited shipping if you do... Do you have something in place to let your customers know when you're out of stock of something? This is by no means a personal attack and nothing in the shape of trolling, but you really need to take a step back and think before you post something like this.
“Poor planning on your part does not necessitate an emergency on mine.”
― Bob Carter
> So essentially what you're stating is a lack of planning on your part constituted all this?
A lack of planning on my part did not cause them to screw up my order. It did not cause them to communicate late in a terrible fashion.
I planned perfectly, with the exception of under-anticipation of orders when we launched into an entirely new line of products. Even with being overwhelmed with orders and nearly running out of stock, we were still on pace to be 48 hours ahead of our 3-5 day shipping time.
Had they notified me at the time of shipment that the order was short shipped, it would have been a non-issue, I'd have requested a refund for that portion and ordered it elsewhere, however, they didn't which caused me to nearly have to postpone orders on my end 96 hours because of their screw up. Thankfully, I've had some community help to resolve this with priority mail packages going out today to tie me over until I receive my order from FA.
> You may want to convey your problem to the owner of the company not the world and give them a chance to respond before stating something like that on a very public website.
I have sent them 4 emails and left two voicemails over the last 32 hours without a response. Given that it took them 96 hours to notify me that they short shipped the order, I'm not expecting a response this week...
> Do you have something in place to let your customers know when you're out of stock of something?
Read my other comments, it's already resolved for my business and my customers. My customers orders weren't delayed more than 24 hours and they were all informed that would be the case the moment I knew.
I like how he said do not ever use them for DIY but his whole gripe is that now he can't fill customer orders... I get the annoyance but to say that no one should ever order from them bc you waited till the last minute is a bit harsh.
If you value ordering a product and actually receiving it, then you probably don't want to order from them. This post triggered at least 10 other responses where they've dropped the ball on orders and refused to fix them or took forever to do so.
I would say they pissed off the wrong person. That is pretty unprofessional nonetheless. I have only ordered from them a few times for some FA flavors and they took a while to ship. Never had any problems like this but I will most likely avoid them now because of your post.
> I would say they pissed off the wrong person.
Damn straight they did. They have no idea who I am as I signed up for an account with them via my personal email address, not my business one, but I'm fairly certain they will figure it out eventually (if they give a shit).
Oh well though, that type of service is just inexcusable.
Wow, so one fuckup and they are blacklisted? This is like an ECR crucifixion, I thought this sub was different :(
How do you ship someone's order short half the order, and not inform them til 4 days later? It's inexcusable. I'd have been happier if they said nothing thinking it was just overlooked and then they shipped overnight or something, but to do it this way is just terrible...
Fair enough, man. I understand the situation sucks, and reporting bad experiences with vendors is a valuable thing for the community... I get all that.
It's just the level of vitriol just feels excessive and vindictive, and reminiscent of ECR, which is a place I've started avoiding due to the increasing prevalence of that type of vibe.
> It's just the level of vitriol just feels excessive and vindictive,
Excessive and vindictive, maybe, maybe not. I've read plenty of mixed reviews about ELM over the last 6 months, I had nothing but positive experiences with them, but this is a MAJOR fuck up that is now impacting over 30 pending orders of mine, that as of last Friday were in shape to ship by this Friday.
Now because ELM is incompetent I become incompetent and have to inform my customers of an additional week in shipping delay because of ELM's incompetence? Not even just that, but the way they handle it. They send an email saying it'll ship when it's in stock, no ETA on it being in stock, no offer to refund that portion of the order.
Not even a god damn apology in the email. Ludicrous.
I feel my reaction is well within reason and completely justifiable. Any company that is going to mis-manage their customer service this terribly does not deserve to be in business nor do they deserve any of the business from this sub of amazing people who have better vendor options available to them.
Pay them no mind. We are usually much more even-keeled. There are community events to pool orders for better prices, gentle guiding of beginners, and camaraderie amongst peers. This is just a bump in the road.
> There are community events to pool orders for better prices
Lol as I host most of these =)
It's funny seeing the comments from people defending ELM. After reading all of u/botboy141 comments I can't see how anyone would side with ELM in this situation. The fact that they made a mistake isn't the issue. It's the fact that they seemed to not give a shit that a mistake was made and took the "pretend it didn't happen" approach.
So, can anyone point me to a vendor other than ELM that sells flavourart in 30/50ml sizes and who's website doesn't make me want to tear my dick off when I try to use it?
PS. ecigexpress has a website that makes me want to murder people. I have never completed an order there because it's just so fucking slow and unwieldy, so I am going to need somewhere other than them.
I skimmed all of your responses, didn't see how you responded to that email... And the conversation that followed. I'm nosey.
> 21st Jul 2015 @ 1:31 PM
> You Said:
> Completely backordered? I need that more than anything else....Thanks for letting me know 9 days after the order was placed, accepted, and paid for.
> Need this resolved yesterday...Is there anything else we can do to resolve this? Partial refund, etc?
Followed up with three other emails and two voicemail messages. No response.
Damn, so you're in the dark right now. That's rough.
Yeah fuck them! I made one order and they shipped me 2 of one flavor and zero of another flavor. Everything else was correct except for the fact that the leaked on each other during shipping and when I tried to contact them I never got helped.
Mistakes happen. It's about living up to and correcting them in a professional manner. That's the issue with ELM. not that they've made mistakes.
> Mistakes happen. It's about living up to and correcting them in a professional manner.
Precisely, I've made mistakes before with orders, first to admit it, everyone makes mistakes. It how you handle those mistakes that define you as an organization and determine whether or not you'll receive repeat business.
As I said before, if I had heard when the order shipped or before that it was short shipped, I would have cared less and resolved it via another vendor. The 96 hour wait to inform me is despicable, and without even an apology or a resolution.
For fuck sake your order got delayed by a couple of days and your whinging ?
I live in a country where orders take weeks / months to deliver be fucking happy you got it so fast.
You know, when I first found ELM I was searching for some flavors that BCV didn't have, or any other place for that matter. So when I was on the website, I noticed not only did they have it in stock, but for cheaper as well. Something didn't seem right, because everyone was looking for this specific flavor, and there's no way this company can not only have it stocked, but cheaper. So I decided to call and make sure. Come to find out, nope flavor not in stock. Half of the flavors I wanted to buy were not in stock, but "would be shipped out as soon as they came in". WTF? Um, no? No thank you. Eliquid Mart, if you see this thread, please fix this terrible problem that is misleading so many customers.
Wow. Get over it. Shit sells out sometimes.
Maybe you shouldn't have counted your eggs before they hatched. Or better yet, made a phone call to check inventory.
Or they could have informed me in less than 8 days after I placed my order that the product I paid for was out of stock? Or how about when they went to go pick it out of their inventory and ship it?
Nah, let's get it shipped so he doesn't ask us to cancel the order, then send him an email 4 days later letting him know he's screwed? Yup that's the winner right there.
Still, the salt is real.
I've had a McDonald's fuck up my order, but I never tried to burn the building down.
This is like
You go to McDonald's and order food for you and your family. You pay, get the food, and call home to tell your family that you have dinner and are on the way, but then ten minutes later somebody from Mickey Ds calls you and says "Hey bro, we were sold out of nuggets for those happy meals so there's none in there , we'll call you when we get more bye."
You won't wanna burn the building down but you sure as fuck as probably gonna find a more well run place to get your nuggets from. And you'll probably let your friends know what a massive fuck-up that particular McDonald's is.