We are in "restricted" mode (instead of "private") for one main reason: you. I realize there are some July 4th sales and some of you need access to recipes before placing that order, so have at it. You can comment on old posts, but can't create new ones for the time being.
Some of you may not follow all the Reddit drama, so let me explain what's been going on. The anger among all Reddit moderators has been building for some time. We have really zero support from admins, mod tools are all third-party generated, and we put a lot of time in with no thanks from the people whose pockets we are lining. Things came to a head yesterday when one of the few helpful admins (who was essential to the AMAs) was fired. No official reason was given, but I've heard everything from Jesse Jackson's AMA went poorly (LOL, fuck that guy) to the more probable reason that Reddit wanted to monetize the AMAs and that admin refused. /r/iama went dark, and other subs soon followed. This sub joined in solidarity.
I would have been happy being dark for days or longer - with everyone else - until we saw some real change from Reddit Inc. Unfortunately, the big boys all lost their courage and folded. Most of the really big subs were back on by mid afternoon today. I'm really disappointed with that, but the revolution evolved into a tantrum, and things will soon return to normal without any real change in policy.
So why "restricted" instead of back to normal? I guess I'm hoping the issue isn't dead. If it wasn't for the dozens of you who have given legit requests to be let back in, we might have been one of the holdouts remaining private. In any case, I hope you understand why we went dark, and why we came back. I urge you to install ad blocking software and to avoid buying gold until real policy changes have been made at the top, though. Hit them in the wallet. and maybe we can see some real change.
Thanks for understanding. Love you all. Happy mixing, and happy 4th.
**Edit: the "revolution" is over, with nothing of significance gained. We are back to business as usual; new posts are open. Sorry to all of you that were maligned in some way; our intention was never to hurt our readers but Reddit management. It seems only our readers were hurt, and for that I apologize.
> We are in "restricted" mode (instead of "private") for one main reason: you.
This is patronizing.
> I realize there are some July 4th sales and some of you need access to recipes before placing that order, so have at it.
I said as much in a response to /u/returnity after I sent my initial mod message. You locked people out of useful information during a holiday week/weekend – some of the only time many people have off to mix. I'm really disappointed in that but glad to see the sub is back up in a neutered form if nothing else.
Really – I sympathize with a lot of the upset. It really sucks how Reddit The Company is treating Reddit The Community. I just don't agree with letting some of your personal complaints affect the 15,000 of us who may not feel the same way.
Let's not fool ourselves; this action was primarily about participating in the knee-jerk reaction to /u/chooter's firing. Do mod tools suck? Sure. Is the mod-to-admin relationship shaky at best? Absolutely. If the job of moderating – in a moderate fashion – is too burdensome or time consuming given these constraints, step down. No one will begrudge you...that's totally valid.
I hope it's not inappropriate to suggest readers here who want to participate hop over to /r/DIY_eLiquid and post some threads
Yeah I'm really not feeling this "protest". I could get behind it I guess at first but I didn't bother blacking out my sub because the whole thing pretty much immediately devolved back in to the FPH "spam the front page with FUCK ELLEN PAO posts" shit.
Reddit just can't do anything properly. It always has to devolve in to screaming and crying before the end of the first day.
Also I was really bored at work Friday thanks to that shit so I'm not very pleased.
> This is patronizing. > I just don't agree with letting some of your personal complaints affect the 15,000 of us who may not feel the same way.
It seems that we have a difference of opinion on this matter. I personally don't believe that a "well, it's not ME getting screwed today, I suppose everything will be alright" is the right attitude.
"First they came for ..."
Regardless, best of luck with your new sub, I really mean that. But please try to create new content rather than copy/pasting off the /r/diy_ejuice sidebar... of course there is nothing legally stopping you, but a lot of effort has been put into it over time and it would be in poor taste.
You're misrepresenting what I typed, and combining two separate thoughts into a single phrase by omitting the text between those sentences.
I've never so much as suggested a flippant attitude that since I'm not being directly affected by reddit administrative choices that I do not care. I explicitly stated in the comment you're haphazardly quoting that I understand and agree with the complaints many mods have. Our disagreement is simple – your personal stand on reddit's apparent direction affected DIYers ability to access information. I think that's bad. Simple enough. And really, I don't think it'd be prudent to continue arguing this point further.
As far as the sidebar on /r/diy_eliquid – Is your issue the 4 basic etiquette guidelines I reworded, or me copying the nicotine warning that was itself directly copied from ECF? I want to be clear what you feel is in poor taste.
As good natured as all this is, I doubt it will change anything, and no one will even be worried about it by Monday. It's not because it isn't a big deal, but the fact that it is an issue that only affects the medium with the shortest attention span. The biggest subreddits won't bother with it after the initial shock wears off, and the only thing that this blackout would have accomplished is pushing more of our subscribers closer to making the switch to VU. I hate to criticize the mods, but I don't see anything changing because of the blackout.
That being said, I need to lighten the mood a little bit, so: If Ellen Pao actually does step down, or this "blackout" has a significant impact in Reddit's policy, I will vape 10mL of 8% TFA Honey and VG, and do a 500 word post as a review.
> no one will even be worried about it by Monday
Yeah, that's the problem.
>If Ellen Pao actually does step down, or this "blackout" has a significant impact in Reddit's policy, I will vape 10mL of 8% TFA Honey and VG, and do a 500 word post as a review.
I'm going to hold you to that, and want video proof.
...Fuck
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
(takes breath)
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
(grabs popcorn, because popcorn is tasty). 'Dis gunna be good.
>do a 500 word post as a review.
You won't be conscious, so you can not fulfill your end of the deal
Who the fuck cares? The drama was beyond stupid, and it's silly that this sub even decided to participate.
Glad it's no longer private, please don't lock everyone else out of a plethora of useful info, over some bullshit petty squabble.
It makes no sense to blackout this sub. People are here not to be part of the reddit community. They're here to learn and to use this sub as a tool. If this sub was on Voat, we'd go there. If this sub was on its own website, we'd go there. I would venture to guess a big majority of the users here could care less about Reddits problems and who got fired.
Edit. Also, I don't want to come off unappreciative towards the mods. I'm not a mod of any sub, and have no idea what it takes to do it, and admire what you guys do. I just think of this sub more as its own entity that doesn't really need any special recognition from the reddit admins.
Do you know what it's like running a subreddit this size? The people who make sure this sub runs smoothly and isn't filled with trolls do it for no pay. Just to farther a cause. If they buckle to things like this the corp. scum that own it will make the subs get shitty and ads will be everywhere.
Too lazy to scroll back and take screen captures, but outside of all the sidebar updates, sticky posts, managing greatly differing levels of skill in DiYers, between the 4 of us active mods, we ready EVERY SINGLE POST that comes up on this sub. There are usually ~40 mod actions taken per day whether it be responding to a report, removing a comment, directing people to the proper place for things, dealing with Mod PM's, vendors/commerical posts, etc. This sub is also growing rapidly and this will become more of an issue for us in particular as things get busier around here.
We participated to show our support initially as the removal of Victoria really had no impact on our sub in any way, however, I know that Inertia mods a handful of other subs that are just as busy as this one, we mod because we enjoy helping and are capable at doing so and we enjoy it, we would just appreciate some support from the folks that are getting paid for the work we do pro bono =).
Reddit provides virtually zero assistance to mods to do so. All I can say is thank god we have /u/InertiaCreeping that understands a bit of the silly coding that goes into making a decent looking sidebar and a nice banner.
Just know that you guys are DEFINITELY appreciated here. I love chatting with each of you, and you're all doing a fantastic job keeping this sub clean(ish), relevant, and interesting from day to day. It's been really cool seeing this sub grow for the past 9 months or so that I've been here, yet not spiral out of control as it does so (looking at you, ECR).
A subreddit this size? The sub gets MAYBE 15 new posts a day on a good day; trust me, I sit in new and spam the refresh button. And while the mods do a fair amount of work, the users do a good enough job of downvoting the useless threads.(Although we could be a bit better about getting rid of the vapemail posts, seriously how the fuck does that contribute anything at all to the sub?) And wtf are you talking about trolls? This sub doesn't attract trolls, and if one does come around, the users take care of it quickly.
I'm not trying to make it seem like the mods do nothing, but in a subreddit of "this size" it's making sure the 10 daily posts read the sidebar first.
There's something to be said about taking a stand in whatever way you can in support of something you believe in. Was it annoying to see every sub I was interested in set to private? Yes, of course it was. Does that mean I didn't support them in their choice to exercise the only bargaining chip that they had availabe? No, of course not. I support the subs going private or remaining read only. There may be nothing that comes of this, especially with the defaults having crumbled under the words of Kn0thing's empty promises. However, at least those who participated can say that they tried to do something instead of nothing, and that's a whole lot better than having done nothing in my eyes.
This was extremely pointless. Especially for a niche sub like this.
For those that do support these "strikes" y'all should have left it to the big subs especially the default ones.
I can't think why any of you moderators would've thought closing a relatively small sub like this would've had any affect on the outcome of the blackout and not just simply inconvience the subscribers here. I'd also be willing to bet that the majority of users and lurkers here only know of reddit due to this sub and visit the site solely for that purpose.
But hey, you're the mods, y'all can do whatever the fuck you wanna do!
How many people does it take thinking this way before no one bothers standing up for what they believe in anymore?
Why would you be willing to let other people choose what happens for you?
The only way a mass blackout works as a protest tool is if it's a mass blackout, not a few defaults and couple large subs.
Stand up for what they believe in? For Christ sake, it's a message board website. They fired an employee. People get fired everyday for much more pointless reasons. There are MUCH worse social injustices going on out there for you to "stand up for what you believe in".
I'm not saying other things aren't more important, but if you hold a belief, no matter how insignificant it may be to others, you stand up for it.
Just because it's unimportant to you doesn't mean it is to the people who pour their hearts into the effort to better this community.
Don't belittle what other people hold dear. If you won't stand up for others, who's going to stand up for you when you need it?
I have never bought gold (Nor will I ever) and I always run adblock. I understand why we went private during the blackout and respect that. I am also glad you opened back up for viewing for those who needed to look up recipes.
I will save up any recipes until we get back to normal working conditions.
Oh thank God we're back, I almost cried last night when I came to this sub and tried to look through a bunch of discussions to try to get a good feel for some new flavors I'm ordering.
I never realized how much this community meant to me, even though I'm mostly a lurker. I'm going to change that, and post some recipes tomorrow when I sober up. Stay safe and happy mixing<3
I appreciate the gesture. Like a few here I wasn't very up to speed on who any of the players in this drama were, but in my experience, mods that don't have support from admins have their hands tied, and it's wrong.
I don't blame you for locking down, and I am impressed you guys held out so long.
You guys do a good job. Thank you.
Hmm .... Thank you for coming to your senses and opening the sub back up. I appreciate it. Now let's examine the action shall we?
Once upon a time, there was a King that ruled the land. Because it was his land. He owned it. Being a somewhat generous king, he allowed anyone who wanted to claim a portion of that land a build a farm on it. All these people had to do was volunteer to take care of the farm. It was theirs to grow whatever they wanted. As time progressed, many of these farms flourished and fed large groups of people. Everyone was happy.
After a while, these volunteer farmers realized that running a farm was hard work. They had to use cow shit to fertilize their fields and they had to walk through the fields and pull any weeds that were growing. One farm had grown quite large and popular among the people so the King hired someone to help the volunteers on that farm run it. The King paid the salary of that helper. This helper worked to grow the farm even larger and more popular. They also shared knowledge with other volunteer farmers to help them, too. As a result, the helper because quite popular.
One day, the helper did something the King didn’t like. As a result, the King immediately decided that he wasn’t going to pay the helper anymore and released them from their service agreement. That made many of the volunteer farmers unhappy, very unhappy. One volunteer farmer decided to do something about it. This farmer influenced other farmers to do the same. Then many other farmers, not being able to think for themselves, joined in and followed suit. What did they do? Did they put down their shovels and walk away in protest? Did they go on strike and allow the weeds to take over the crops? No, they did not.
They did something more evil. They built a wall around their farms and began to starve the people.
As the people grew hungry, they began to vocalize against the volunteer farmers. The volunteer farmers made their case to the people in hopes that the people would support their actions. The farmers had made an agreement with the King to maintain the farms with what they had. Next, they told the starving people that they demanded the King provide them Miracle Grow and Roundup to make the jobs they volunteered for easier. They refused to allow any of the people access to food until the King gave into their demands. They were extorting the King in an effort to obtain more things for free to work on the farms they were given for free. The people were confused and did not understand. They began to get hungry. Some moved away. Some began to get very sick. Many pleaded with the volunteer farmers to feed them. The farmers told the people they would not be given any food until the King gave in to their demands. The farmers then began to demand that the people support their actions.
The farmers had become so selfish about their own wants and needs that they forgot about the very people they volunteered to serve. They began to harm those people believing that this would hurt the King. This did hurt the King, but only after many of the people had fled the kingdom or perished due to starvation.
What should the King now do? A few unhappy farmers were harming many people in his kingdom. Should he cave to the demands of the few? No. Should he attack them and take back what is his? Should he banish them from his kingdom? Yes. Yes, he should.
Not a bad analogy. The only thing I'd add is that the king often forgets that there's a new, kinder, friendlier king a few clicks away that would love to grow his kingdom with the old king's castoffs. Sort of like when Digg was the old king and Reddit was the new king.
Oh yes. You are absolutely right! I was a digg user originally and moved here when things got bad there. My point is that punishing the people is not the way to get the King to change.
I've never seen a more perfect analogy lol. I wish this could be blasted across r/all so everyone can take a step back and realize what's going on.
As a fellow moderator of a small sub-Reddit: I appreciate the effort you and your team put into this place every day... but get over yourself. Reddit doesn't give a shit if you make this private or restricted.
You are only fucking us on this one, and Reddit admins won't even notice.
As others have pointed out here, your stunt was quite deleterious to this community. Yesterday was my day off to mix, but I was unable to look at all of my "saved" comments/posts here. I had to try to rack my brains to remember key words to search using Google Cache and the Internet Wayback Machine. Now that I can look at what I missed; I'm pissed. I forgot two recipes I wanted to try, and I'm not sure when I'll have time to break everything out again.
So on a very personal level, you fucked me too. This has been my primary DIY community of choice. I don't want to keep up with the forums, and (prior to yesterday) I've been extremely happy here. Get your nic level sorted and please drop this drama, because it is pointless and petulant.
Edit: A lot of folks here are replying about the recipes, but that's only part of what was missing when I lost my "saved" comments. I also save little details people share here, like "using X% of Y made Z pop". Last night I had to email Botboy for details on a peanut butter ratio that he shared here.
This is legitimate advice from personal experience, im not trying to be an ass. Save your recipes and recipes you want to try in an offline form, you never know when a server will shit the bed (or a sub will go private). Simple foresight could have saved myself so much time and money on things like this, so I just wanted to share.
It is good advice! I need to come up with a system for that.
Just a snippet in to what I do.... I have a green notebook for all recipes in development, and a tan notebook for all recipes finalized. Also, finalized recipes get saved on e-liquidrecipes.com for digital backup. Thinking it may not be a bad idea to save them locally on my network drive or something of that nature. I'm anal as fuck when it comes to file back ups....have 3 duplicate external drives to house pictures, music, movies, tax information....all that fun stuff. Shit breaks :/
http://www.e-cigarette-forum.com/forum/diy-e-liquid/480587-new-calculator-try.html
This 'comprehensive' calculator I'm always recommending allows for easy import/export of your entire recipe book. I actually bought a new comp on Friday and had my recipes (1200+) up and running on the new comp within 5 minutes of windows loading up. It also has a great little notes section for tasting notes as you are developing.
I understand the craze as well of e-liquid-recipes.com and fully support what daath is doing there, but at the same time, I like to have control over my own creations and don't like dealing with public/private recipes there.
I just do my best to back up a new database file to my external and dropbox anytime I finalize a new recipe. I literally have to click two buttons inside the program (Tools > Export to Juice File) and I'm done with export. Import = File > Open.
Sooo many feelings, so little time. Wishing I was at my laptop right now. Wonder if we'll here about this on Upvoted.
I was under the impression that the big subs were sort of forced back online. I know there is alot of hearsay going on today but I was under the impression if those subs didnt go back to public that they were going to be forced on. Either way I hope something positive comes out of all this.
There's some evidence that /r/pics was forced. Not sure about anything else. I will admit that Chairman Pao came to my house this afternoon, held a shotgun to my dog's head, and said if we weren't back online immediately she'd pull the trigger.
Never did like that dog.
This hints at the screenshot to be a fake constructed by playing around in HTML. Of course it could be a lie\also a lie.
The decision made by our local mod crew to take the sub offline for so long was retarded at best. While I can appreciate the current set of problems that lead up to this on reddit globally, I can't draw any correlation between them and the content on this sub.
Our mods provide an invaluable service to this sub, make no mistake. They filter the nonsense. They arrange the weekly/monthly/yearly contests. They keep this pig flying.
Today however, the mods stole our content to push an agenda. An agenda that likely carries little weight amongst the users contributing to this sub. We appreciate what you do around here mods, however taking “our” ball and going home was an unfair abuse of your power.
I appreciate your point of view. I do disagree, but you make valid points.
I'm of the opinion that a longer, larger scale blackout would have been more than justified, simply based on all the shit mods have to put up with with almost no support.
I think the "not our sub's problem, don't do anything" mentality is a bit misguided, as a protest of this sort only gets more effective the more people join in.
Really, I'm just glad we're back up so that we can continue to help people better their health and finances.
We're all in this together; vape on and mix on, my friend.
Sorry, giving gold to you was too ironic to pass up.
You mods go unappreciated too often. Looking past the monthly thread constantly being posted late (Australian here) - thanks for everything else! :p
I was just about to buy a plane ticket and fly there to bitch-slap you, then I realized /u/InertiaCreeping is probably only a couple blocks away, so I'll have him do it. Australia's pretty small, right?
>monthly thread constantly being posted late
So when I post it the evening of the 31, I get flak from /u/Botboy141, when I do it on the first (for me) I've got all of Oz pissed off. Can't win.
I know my voice won't count or hold any. But since you have mentioned subscribers and you guys are doing this for us (Thank you). Then the whole thing started because someone got let go who you guys need without prior notice and yet you guys set the sub to private and yet without notice to your subscribers . Ironic isn't it ??
Take my words with a grain of salt , am no body IN this sub .