So this is something that's severely lacking among the DiY providers out there at the moment and is something I've been toying with offering through my site for a few weeks now.
Just trying to gauge if there's a market for this for new mixers (seems more and more are starting out mixing by weight after doing their research here) and I'd like them to be able to source a good starting kit at a solid price point.
Here's what I'm thinking of offering:
30ml TFA Strawberry Ripe
30ml TFA Strawberry
30ml TFA Bavarian Cream
30ml TFA Dragonfruit
30ml TFA Vanilla Swirl
30ml TFA Pear
30ml TFA Marshmallow
30ml LA Watermelon (Colorless)
30ml LA Banana Cream (Colorless)
30ml CAP Vanilla Custard V1
10ml FA Fuji Apple
10ml FA Vienna Cream
10ml FA Meringue
10ml FA Cookie
10ml FA Fresh Cream
10ml GGG Awesome Apple Pie Flavor Concentrate
10ml Ethyl Maltol (10%)
10ml TFA Sweetener
10ml Citric Acid (10%)
16oz Propylene Glycol (optional double PG)
16oz Vegetable Glycerin (optional double VG)
25 30ml Childproof Bottles
25 10ml Childproof Bottles
American Weigh Scales ACP-200 Digital Pocket Scale 200 by 0.01G
Written Mix By Weight Directions and YouTube Video Link
Shipped for free for $145.
Thoughts? Entry point/cost too high? Other flavors (took these from the wiki we threw together for flavor recommendations and added a few I thought would work well).
I'd offer more PG/VG but don't really want to turn myself into a DIY supplier so keeping that to be enough to get started with another order required for that and nicotine. I have no desire to re-package nic.
Purchased individually, these items would run roughly $160 for most folks and some aren't even available from the same vendors increasing shipping cost (LA Banana Cream colorless and LA Watermelon colorless).
Very, very nice. A lot of these flavorings I've noticed from your recipes, will you be including a Recipe Book along with the written directions. I don't think the price point is too high considering the amount of flavors and their sizes, but I'm wondering if you could find a way to drop that down a little bit. Removing some of those flavors would help, but I feel you're putting that many to fit to the recipes. Still, this is cheaper than ordering it separately and way more convenient.
This is definitely not a "beginner" kit I feel, this is more of an "intermediate" kit for people who have been mixing around but want to be put in the right track to getting to advanced stuff. Including the EM, Citric Acid and Sweetener puts you ahead by offering different ways of enhancing flavors, instead of flavor packs loaded with random stuff. I think that's what I like the most about this list, the flavors seem intentional and not jumbled. Overall, I like it :)
Yeah the "Mixing by Weight Directions" will include at least a dozen recipes. Honestly the cost of the flavors isn't crazy, I thought about only doing 10ml instead of 30ml of some but it didn't drop my costs by more than $5-6. Volume of flavoring isn't the cost basis, it's the re-packaging to bottles, labeling, the time involved, clean room, etc that is expensive. The actual cost of the flavors when buying in bulk (gallons) is relatively in-expensive.
If this was to take off, at some point, the total cost of the flavors I'm supplying runs me less than $25 (when buying in 1 gallon + sizes). But VG+PG @ another $10, bottles @ $11, Scale and nice printed manual @ $20, Shipping ~$15. And obviously have to factor in wastage, spoiling and risk associated with dropping a few thousand on materials. If they don't sell, they will eventually expire so have to factor that in to my profit margin as well. And let's not forget payment processing fees etc etc etc
It's still a significantly lower margin than selling juice which is why I don't love the idea of doing it, just want to be able to help the community out and get more people mixing themselves with a kind of one stop starter point that's easy, clean, efficient, and doesn't require a ton of space to work in.
I could probably shave $10-15 off the price point and still be happy with the margin by reducing the 30ml flavors down to 10ml and turning the directions/guide into an ebook instead of a paper manual.
Too high of a gamble for me starting out DIY. Ideally I would want to keep it under $100 if possible and have nicotine included. Maybe less flavors with a choice option and/or smaller sizes?
Is that a good scale? The usual recommended one is more expensive.
It's easier to source and is a very solid scale. It's just a 200g limit instead of 500g. I wanted to do the LB-501 but @ $40+ it's just going to drive the kit cost even higher and I feel it's already too high.
Thats exactly the way i view it , no way i would spend that much when starting out , i would of never started at all .
There is a new thread on ECF that asks how much did starting out cost you and were you successful .97% said they spent way under $100.00 and a ton spent less than half that .
I would have almost certainly gone for this when I was starting out. You really do cover some of the best flavors. I would strongly suggest including nicotine though, so that they don't have to make that second order. Just to make a more appealing proposition: > "Here is a single flat price. You pay this flat price and you can make your own e-juice."
I liked Jordan's suggestion of a recipe book!
Yeah recipe book had been toyed with, was just trying to figure out delivery and I think an ebook will work very well for that.
I'm testing out a few new nic vendors currently, my biggest thing is that I don't want to be re-packaging 100ml nic if I can avoid it. What I might do though, if I can find a vendor I'm happy with, is offer ~60ml of 100mg nic in this kit and just negotiate a wholesale price pre-packaged in that size from the vendor. It wouldn't add more than $10 to the total cost of the kit, and if I played around, might be able to make it work.
I'm more just a little nervous about offering a kit over the $100 price point as that's a scary spot for a lot of consumers.
You could honestly keep the price point down lower if you skipped adding the flavorings and just source your own flavorings; Like the "GGG Awesome Pie". Not sure if they would cut too much into the GGG Business end or not.
Another option is to have more than 1 kit. Individual kits with flavoring themes. "Fruity", "Dessert", "Creamy", Etc....
Just brainstorming.
Good brainstorms, the downside to optional kits based on flavor preference means inventory costs go up even more and trying to manage this on a small businesses budget =).
I considered just offering my company pre-mix concentrates but I want people to be able to mix and play and have fun with standard vendor concentrates.
I could probably drop a few flavors from this list though and add a few more of my own. Might actually drop all the FA and add my own in that category instead.
60mL of 100mg would probably be perfect... but then they need gloves. :/
That $100 price point is tricky. My first thought was to suggest it, but I can't imagine you could pull that off without gutting the flavor list.
I think it'll work as an eBook, nearly everyone has a tablet now. I've always got my iPad opened to e-liquid-recipes when I'm mixing.
You might want to also add pipettes. You can buy those in huge bulk for pennies. I have a lifetime supply in my garage right now.
No need for pipettes as everything I'm supply will come with dropper tops attached or optional (nic/pg/vg). The Nic will also be in a bottle with a dropper top making gloves not really needed. I'll include some warnings and cautions for recommendations of them, but honestly, they aren't needed.
I wish this had been a thing 2 month ago, I'd have got it for sure. What about a few syringes or pipettes to transfer pg/vg?
The flavorings look ok. I would also include "Starter recipes" for those flavorings so they can have some good recipes at the get go. Also instructions pointing to a good calculator that will do weight (Or include one on a cd or cheap flash drive). The more information they have at the get go will alleviate a lot of headaches for everyone.
Also the non inclusion of NIC could be a "turn away" point for some people but I can see why you would want to skip that. All things considered though; I think it is a great idea. It is something that is not being offered anywhere else.
I have been contemplating for a while on making a .PDF with all the information a new diy'er would need. I however am working 6 days a week now for the foreseeable summer and haven't had the time to really sit down and start compiling one. I haven't even had much time to DIY :(
I think this would be great. I don't find the greater than 100 dollar buy in to be a real issue as I can drop well over that in a month of juice purchases. Tbh the biggest Hurdle I've had in starting diy us ordering from multiple places. One place has the best prices but never has stock of half what I want so off I go to try and find another place. It is a hassle. Your offer is saving money plus saving that. If I mixed up a tried and true recipe and i liked it I'm sure I'd be more inclined to buy more flavors and get into diy. One other idea.
Refill packs that a person could order for their kit. Some people don't want to go hunting flavors and would probably pay for the convenience even if it meant having 3 bottles of pear they never use...just my 2 copper disks.
> Refill packs that a person could order for their kit. Some people don't want to go hunting flavors and would probably pay for the convenience even if it meant having 3 bottles of pear they never use...just my 2 copper disks.
Not a bad idea at all. Damn you guys are making me really want to get this going. Looks like I'm putting some shopping lists together over the next few days.
I like this idea. I would like to see a VG only version, as well, but not everyone has special needs.
That would be a bit steep for me right now, but something I would very much save for.
Yeah I edited after posting it, would give the option to exchange the VG or PG for doubling the other.
FWIW, I quickly abandoned mixing by weight as it's not as accurate / easy in small volumes. From a recent reply to TheVaporChef I wrote:
>I mix in bottles from 10-50 ml, tried weight, and went back to syringes. In small batches, it's a real pain to creep up on a goal weight drop by drop, waiting for the scale to register, and if you go over it's too late. With syringes, if I draw too much I just squirt the excess into my waste tank.
I get 6 drops for 1% in a 10ml batch, or .167ml per drop. My 1ml syringes measure in .1ml increments, so I have more control than the drops. YMMV, but I don't thing mixing by weight is great for small batches, and certainly not for the beginning mixer.
Yeah I guess I look at it more from the perspective of an experienced mixer and forget what it was like starting out. I never mix batches smaller than 30ml now (even as test batches) so 0.1% for me is typically one drop per 30ml from my largest droppers (0.03g), 2 drops from my smallest.
Edit: By the way, I'm adding my flavor concentrates to my website. Awesome Apple Pie for everyone coming soon! =)
> never mix batches smaller than 30ml now (even as test batches)
Really? I mix 10's all the time until I have a recipe I like. I test new flavors on 10s. And there's a few mixes I like to vape, but don't love, and mix those in 10s to keep in the rotation. I would guess 70% of my mixing is into 10s.
- but then again I'm not running a juice co, just mixing for my own enjoyment.
Good news on the flavor concentrates. I think more companies should do this.
Yeah 30ml even on test batches. I guess that's part of the benefit of having more shit than I know what to do with. I have so much that I don't vape after mixing it's kinda silly, but when trying to add 0.1% to a 10ml mix...I don't want to waste my time with 1/3rd of a drop. Much easier to just work with 30ml for the sake of fine tuning my stuff =).
I don't have nearly as much wastage now as I used to when I'd mix other peoples recipes...
I'm excited for the concentrate isn't ideas on cost for it?
I like the idea but find diy a hard sell. People think I'm a mad scientist. But honestly I'm not very smart.
How did you end up here?
I think the price is fair & to get into DIY you have to spend some money to get started but after that the savings are amazing. So it's well worth it if someone just starting looks at it that way. It would be a good idea to say somewhere in the Description that This Kit makes X amount of finished product. Then they can figure out there savings vs buying premade juice. I think that will make the kits price seem small in comparison.
Looks really nice for beginner kit. I'm currently on market and it's really hard to find proper DIY beginner kit.
Maybe make another kit (not-so-beginner) with just flavourings and PG/VG for people who need to buy second batch and make it connected item, always think about future sales :).
Where is your shop?
www.gggejuice.com (under construction a little for the next 48 hours with some new products coming out)
Not really wanting to get into the DiY Supply Market for the most part, especially when it comes to PG/VG/Nic supplies, we simply don't have the space to house 55 gallon drums in our inventory.
Really just trying to drive more folks into DiY =).
I'm pretty new to diy, but like my first attempt to quit smoking a year ago with the mvp 2 and b&m liquid, I've already given up after a week with my mvp 3 pro and diy liquid.
It was super exciting, fun and new to make my own juice, but nothing came out great. I'm a professional cook, and i thought i could wing it with juice. Well i thought wrong. I ordered a bunch of flavors and anything i made, tasted weak and unfulfilled. I'm not sure if my mvp 3 pro with the isub tank isn't giving the flavor i think that should come from vapor, but everything tastes like nothing with a hint of crap, except when i use potent flavors.
If i could buy a "best of" kit, that contains flavors for recipes (and a actual recipe book) that this community raves about, i would buy it. I've looked around this site and many others for recipes, but they are either a bitch to find or scattered on this sub. And they usually contain odd flavors that a new mixer wouldn't think to get. Honestly i own most of the flavors you listed, and I'm not impressed. Either vaping isn't for me, my taste buds are fucked or I'm not buying the right stuff. Basically what I'm saying is for beginners, include a simple recipe book with solid recipes, cause just supplying flavors without instructions will turn off newbies like me. But that's just my opinion. Also shouldn't cotton candy be listed in your list of flavors since every recipe calls for it? I have 3 bottles of tfa sweetener that's about to go in the garbage that i wish was cotton candy.
> Also shouldn't cotton candy be listed in your list of flavors since every recipe calls for it?
Ethyl Maltol = Cotton Candy
Simple and effective/quality recipes are definitely a part of what I'm offering here and will be a key to the kits long term success.
I like your idea.
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You need to include recipes for all flavors.
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You need to either include nicotine, or automate the nicotine delivery from another vendor as part of the package. 36mg to start.
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Include an online calculator or spreadsheet, or link to a good one online for people starting out.
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Include gloves & glasses. You needs to start people out being safe.
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Include information for how the individual can find the weight of the various flavors.
I wish I had started out measuring by weight. It would have saved me a few steps.
I think this is a really great idea. I think one important thing for you to do is to really spell out for people how much they are spending on juice from the local B&M. This will help justify the price point you come up with especially if its over 100$. People tend to see 100+ $ and think that is too much at once or whatever but they don't realize that they are spending way more than that getting 15-30ml bottles all the time which really adds up. You should do maybe like a small chart/breakdown list or whatever which really just shows people how much they could save. I understand the hesitation on the NIC but I would try to find a way around that if you can, maybe pre-packaged 60mil bottles in wholesale from a supplier or whatever you had said, i think that is the best idea if possible. The e-book is also a great idea, getting this out there to other forums and communities will majorly help you.
I just made a post recently about switching to weight and how much I loved it, I used your mixing by weight guide and basically followed it step by step. I would use everything from that when you go to put this all together. That post has everything a person needs to start mixing by weight, can't praise it enough. I would tell people to use that calculator or e-liquid-recipes.com.
Anyway really great idea and I think it would absolutely work and sell well. You are already highly respected and regarded in this community so I think it would be great.
I really like the flavor list but I am almost wondering if you should include another fruit like maybe juicy peach or something.
Good Luck!
I like the idea. I would've jumped on it if it were available when I started. The DiY world is a little intimidating at first so the intructions/guide will be really nice too.
Price point is a little scary for people that aren't very familiar with the costs of DiY, but it's certainly reasonable for the amount you get with the kit.
I found a man on eBay that is an AWS merchant. He also deals in larger quantities. I don't know but he may be able to sell you the small scales at a good price. His name on eBay is Ezaker if you are interested.
Yeah I've thought about contact AWS personally, I'm sure I can get a wholesale deal from them directly once the volume is where it needs to be.
Wow this is an awesome deal! Would you still offer free shipping to Canada?
Is this still a thing?
Nah, another vendor is working on offering one and I'be simply been too busy.