This is why I'm on the fence for diacetyl. These are people working in a pllace where they're inhaling a large quantity of the stuff.
It's my knowledge that there's more diacetyl in cigarette smoke than in creamy flavors pre-diacetyl purge.
It's also my knowledge that smokers don't get popcorn workers lung (they get worse because of the other chemicals they're inhaling.)
Either of those points could be wrong as it's second hand knowledge.
My question is: Where is this cutoff in diacetyl concentration that makes it unsafe for factory workers, and does it build up over time, or does your body filter it out if it's in lower doses?
I feel like the scare over diacetyl is overblown, but I'm not 100% sure I know enough about the topic myself to know if my belief is warranted. I'm (unfortunately, I love creamy foods) nit a fan of creamy vapes, so it doesn't concern me too much, but I'd still like to know, just incase.
NIOSH recommends no more than 5 ppb (parts per billion) over a 40 hour work week (as a time-weighted average). For reference, we have e-liquids on the market right now with 1800 ppm (parts per million).
So, yeah. There's far more diacetyl (or AP) in e-liquid than in these plants. It is a real problem that needs to be addressed.
If it's any consolation, I don't know a single person in the coffee roasting industry that has ever had a case of or even mentioned anything similar to popcorn lung.
I did some research and there's not a single documented case of diacetyl that has been directly linked to popcorn lung, only anecdotal evidence.
I'd just really like to see how much diacetyl is in the average cigarette compared to how much diacetyl is in the average bottle of e-liquid and go from there. If they're the same, or the e-liquid contains less, I think it'd be fair to assume that it wouldn't be concentrated enough to cause cases of popcorn lung.
This case is pretty well known.
Known for what? He's talking about proven cases with a scientific basis.
>Lawyers from the King Soopers' supermarket chain told CBS Denver, that Watson's attorneys "might have well have warned that there are aliens popping out of the bags because there's just as much support for that."
>Gilster-Mary Lee said in a statement after the verdict, "We are certainly very disappointed by the decision of the jury in this case in light of the very clear evidence which was presented, including the millions of consumers who have safely used and enjoyed microwave popcorn since it was introduced. We are currently evaluating our next steps in this matter and will assert all rights available to us under the law."
The link from the OP is a newer article on the topic. They ran a piece a few months ago as well. From that article is the following quote:
>Emanuel Diaz de Leon didn't know it as he poured jugs of the concentration into giant vats at a coffee roasting plant in Tyler, Texas.
>Neither did his co-workers, who spent 12-hour days roasting and grinding the coated beans that would later be sold in grocery stores and restaurants nationwide as hazelnut flavored coffee.
>The workers never guessed it even when they noticed they were short of breath, when what they thought were colds and allergies worsened, then never went away.
>Doctors assumed they had asthma and bronchitis.
>It would take a year to learn the truth: Something in that yellow liquid had destroyed their lungs, permanently.
>The suspected culprit: diacetyl.
This guy was 39, a non-smoker (never smoked) and in good shape. I believe he worked at the plant less than a year.
That's the thing. I think it's pretty clear that DA/AP destroys your lungs, I just wonder what the difference is between the millions of workers that are exposed to the same concentrations who don't develop BO, and someone like Emanuel.
You also have to wonder why no one that's been vaping on e-liquid with 1800PPM of diacetyl have developed BO, I really feel like we would have started to hear about sick vapers by now considering all these cases of workers getting sick within months from DA.
Clearly it's more complicated than "if you're exposed to XXXppb of diacetyl, you'll develop BO", which is why I'd really like to see some comparisons of DA content between e-liquid and cigarettes.
All I care about is whether vaping is truly a safer alternative to analogues and whether or not a bunch of us are going to start having some serious issues soon.
Here is a non-mobile link: http://jsonline.com/watchdog/watchdogreports/coffee-roasters-health-at-risk-from-chemical-compound-air-samples-suggest-b99505149z1-308183961.html
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Correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't this point the finger, again, at the dust risk of diacetyl vs other ingestion methods? Airborne dust from butter flavoring, airborne dust from coffee grinding.. Yet you can eat and seemingly inhale it in smoke form without risk of popcorn lung.
People really need to stop comparing ecigs to cigarettes. The DA in cigarettes are indeed high, yet the reason that not many smokers are diagnosed with popcorn lung is because of the vast number of toxins contained in them. Smokers often would develop COPD from a combination of all the chemicals contained, and it would be very hard for doctors to diagnose a problem on one single chemical. This argument needs to stop because it is taking away the fact that we have the ability to rid the entire industry of these volatiles. /u/JustSayNoToDiacetyl had a great write up about the amount of Diacetyl found in some liquids, and how staggeringly high they are. Dr. Farsalino's has claimed over and over again at how alarming this issue is. The community is always asking for the "real" science of vaping...well here it is. It may not be what you like, but it's the science. Diacetyl is very, very bad for your lungs, and there is no doubts about it.
> Diacetyl is very, very bad for your lungs, and there is no doubts about it.
Clearly, there's no arguing that.
The question is: How much diacetyl are we actually absorbing relative to cigarettes, and is that amount more dangerous than smoking cigarettes?
Just because it relates to analogues doesn't mean that it's an important question that needs to be answered. Cigarettes are the current "baseline" that we're comparing vaping to in the first place.
I wrote an e-mail to one of the world's leading experts on diacetyl exposure asking this very question (along with links to relevant studies). I will see if she responds.