-----{Warning: long stupid post ahead}-----
Now I'm no scientist nor do I pretend to be. But I have done some "experiments" to see if one of my "hypothesis" was correct. This experiment was to see if steeping had greater effects on flavors with DA/AP, as opposed to those that did not. My hypothesis was that flavors that were more heavily concentrated with DA/AP would change more drastically in taste over a longer period of time, than those without them. I came up with this hypothesis, if that's what you want to call it, when I was testing a few new reformulated recipes. I wanted to reformulate some of my recipes, that I suspected had DA/AP, into ones that did not. So as I was testing them I noticed that some did not need to steep as long as the ones containing the molecules. Some did not need to steep at all. The way I correlated this with DA/AP, was when I remembered I read somewhere that DA is sometimes formed through fermentation, or steeping. So it got me thinking, maybe I should test this formally.
What I did was create a simple recipe that contained flavors that had both versions with DA/AP and without DA/AP. Then I tested both at certain intervals and recorded the findings. I would test at the no steep, Overnight, 3, 5, 7, 14, day marks, and compare both mixes vigorously on the 14th and final day.
The recipes were as follows:
DA/AP Variable
- CAP Vanilla Custard v1 - 2%
- CAP Vanilla Cupcake v1 - 1%
- CAP Harvest Berry - 0.5%
- CAP Sweet Strawberry - 2%
- TFA Hazelnut - 2%
NO DA/AP CONTROL
- CAP Vanilla Custard v2 - 2%
- CAP Vanilla Cupcake v2 - 1%
- CAP Harvest Berry - 0.5%
- CAP Sweet Strawberry - 2%
- TFA DX Hazelnut - 2%
I mixed both at 30ml, 70VG 30PG and with no nicotine. Here are the notes.
Variable
- No Steep: Strawberry more present. Harvest Berry too strong. Creams are very prominent, yet not developed.
- Overnight: Both fruits seem to mellow a tiny bit. Creams still exactly the same. Somewhat a little harsh. Creams seem to be all one flavor, custard main note.
- 3 Days: Strawberries and Harvest playing nicely together. Creams are starting to develop. Can start to taste each cream individually. Hazelnut starting to become more apparent.
- 5 Days: Strawberries and Harvest taste the same as they did from last test, yet weaker. Creams are really mellowing out now, playing with each other much more now. Hazelnut setting in finally. Starting to taste more like a complete mix.
- 7 Days: Same as day 5. Mix is starting to turn into one. Custard still is main note, with everything else falling behind it. This recipe actually sucks.
- 14 Days: Creams fully developed, everything sitting nicely with each other. Custard has calmed down completely, and allowing the cupcake and hazelnut to come into it. Fruits playing a nice backseat to everything, though the harvest berry has overtaken the strawberry. Mix has actually turned into a quite nice custard fruit cupcake. 6/10 would maybe vape again.
Control
- No Steep: Strawberry more present. Harvest Berry too strong. Creams are very prominent, yet not developed. Custard is very very prominent.
- Overnight: Both fruits mellowing nicely. Cupcake starting to come through a little bit, custard is starting to settle
- 3 Days: Strawberries and Harvest playing nicely together. Custard and Cupcake both are starting to develop much more, hazelnut still not as prominent.
- 5 Days: Custard is same as last test though sitting nicely next to cupcake. Vanilla is much more pleasing than variable. Hazelnut a little more apparent. Fruits developed.
- 7 Days: Same as day 5. Yet much more settled and less harsh, or potent. Much more creamy.
- 14 Days: Quite close to day 7. Custard and Cupcake are both fully developed, with the fruits sitting nicely in the back. Only very slight differences in flavor than from day 7. Most notably the hazelnut is much more a factor and contributes more to the mix than the first one. Also variable seems more "heavy" of a flavor than this version, where this flavor is much more creamy and light. 4/10 would not vape again.
Conclusion
So the main differences between the two recipes is that the variable seemed to me to be a heavier and more robust flavor. Packs a punch of flavor and sits heavily in the lungs and mouth. The fruit plays a far backseat to the custard and cupcake in this version. Where as the control is a much more lighter and creamier version, a little more milky. Also the fruits and the hazelnut play a more vital role in the flavor, and contribute much more to the overall flavor. In terms of how they developed, I noticed that the variable took much longer to come together. Even after a week the flavor was still changing and developing. I noticed the flavor was starting to really settle at around the 7-8 day mark, though at the 2 week mark the flavor still was a little different. The control, it seemed, to have pretty much developed fully by day 7-8 and was hard to tell a difference between day 7 and day 14. I noticed it starting to come together around the day 5 mark, though the additional 2 days after changed the flavor noticeably. In all, I guess I would say my hypothesis was correct in that the mix with DA/AP would change more drastically overtime, and would also take a longer time to fully develop.
Now this all may seem like old news, everyone knows how custards and creams take a good 2 weeks to fully realize it's true flavor. But to contribute it to DA/AP is something, at least I have never heard of. Again, I am no fucking scientist. I'm a dumb idiot, who likes vaping, and mixing up stuff. So I ask, some one smarter than me, explain to me what's really going on. Does the DA/AP have anything to do with steeping and flavor change? If it does, is there any reason to be concerned of it, besides of health risks? Can the process be sped up? I'm sure more questions and answers will arise when more studies are being done on these chemicals. I just figured I share my little science experiment and my findings to you guys so you can expect, at least, your recipes to change quite a bit over time. By the way the recipe is ok, nothing to go rush and mix over, pretty much just used to do the test easily, and taste good doing it. I hope a discussion comes of this as I would like to see some feedback from the much smarter people here.
Just a note on the method: It wasn't a blind experiment, was it? You knew which juice had the DA/AP and which one had not.
This invalidates pretty much the whole experiment, since you could have been unknowingly biased.
It might not have been perfectly executed but my own experience reflects his.
I make a flavour called dragons dream, fundamentally dragonfruit, coocnut and cream. The one containing diketones was a very rich deep cream with the fruit tending to hide away in the final flavour profile. With DX it still has a cream but it clings to your mouth less, still adds a creamy aspect (more milky is a good way to describe it) while staying away from muting the fruits. The non DX juices drastically changing as well compared to the DX versions is something I've experienced as well.
Yeah, in place of diacetyl, the DX versions contain butyric acid, something I can't stand after the lovely /u/abdaba explained it's connection to vomit.
It makes sense that the creams would taste different, it's a totally different flavor.
Yeah it is but even with BA you can still make things taste pretty great, you just have to be careful with how high you push the percentages. I tried at first to use way too much of the stuff to try and get close to the old creamy taste/feel I had before with diketones but after dropping that I can now get a pretty good cream using DX flavours.