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Hidden science behind normal and accelerated e-Liquid steeping
submitted over 10 years ago by daathMixologist
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2 points
 
by abdadaover 10 years ago

Awesome post.

I absolutely LOVE my homogenizer. I am basically forcing everything around everything else at ridiculously high speed. I gets pretty "foamy" and then once the foamy dissipates (2 hours or less) I homogenize one more time and it's steeped.

I know I am forcing the harsh volatiles out (you can smell them, once trained to). Downside is forcing air around nicotine MAY increase oxidation, but I use a high quality nic and so far no negative flavors from it.

I hate heat steeping because I feel I am losing some of the heart notes and leaving all the base notes -- tasty, but boring.

2 points
 
by daathover 10 years agoMixologist

I feel so inadequate, with my one or two hot water baths, shaking and leaving it alone for a week or two :) I've been considering trying some of the accelerated methods!

0 points
 
by abdadaover 10 years ago

I prefer hot water baths for custards, because custards excel once ALL the top notes and some heart notes are evaporated. But I don't do a lot of custards, so I have no purpose for the hot baths!

I really love more intricate flavors where I can taste individual volatile-groups. It's too much work to get there, though. But it's fun. For the vast majority of premix concentrates as well as individual HFC extracted flavors, you're going to have a small percentage of harsh top notes that MUST be aged/steeped/evaporated/distilled before it's a quality e-liquid.

I am starting to suspect that Triacetin may actually help reduce top notes. Not sure why or how. The science does NOT back up my anecdotal research on adding Triacetin to e-liquids and getting a better product.

1 points
 
by ThirdWorldOrderover 10 years ago

> am starting to suspect that Triacetin may actually help reduce top notes.

That would make sense because that's what TFA Smooth and FA MTS Vape Wizard are used for. I'm not sure about Vape Wizard, but Smooth is:

>Ingredients: Artificial Flavors, Propylene Glycol, Triacetin

and product description:

>Undiluted concentrated flavoring from The Flavor Apprentice (TFA). "Smooth" will round out any harsh edges and provide a thick, satisfying mouthfeel. It will soften the high notes of your blend while boosting your background notes.

2 points
 
by flipwichover 10 years ago

Ehm, so I just did a search on Amazon for "homogenizer" and.. damn, they are expensive.

What would be your recommendation for enthusiast/home use? I've read some mixed opinions about the latte frothers and such.. your take?

1 points
 
by FarkMcBarkover 10 years ago

I would guess a dremel?

1 points
 
by hootenannyover 10 years ago

A Dremel with a 3mm rod. Works fantastically. A reverse threaded bit or upside-down but will also work.

EDIT: Anecdotally, I have to say this really does make a huge difference. After a week of steeping a batch without mixing it, I still get some of those harsh alcohol tastes, whereas after just a day or two of steeping a batch that was mixed to a froth with a Dremel, it tastes like it's been steeping for three weeks.

1 points
 
by flipwichover 10 years ago

Thanks for the tips -- but I'm not sure I am following the bits that you are talking about.. Again I searched on Amazon and came up with 3mm rods for helicopter models. I'm sure that's not what you are talking about?

1 points
 
by ThirdWorldOrderover 10 years ago

I'm curious as to why you don't just add your nicotine after mixing if there's any concerns with degradation. Maybe it's just heat coupled with over-oxidization that causes a flat, disgusting flavor.

1 points
 
by abdadaover 10 years ago
  1. Lazy -- I premix my nic + penta water + VG "base"
  2. Lazy -- See #1
1 points
 
by ThirdWorldOrderover 10 years ago

I understand your language here. I add my flavors and then fill the rest of my bottle with my premix nic/vg/pg as well.

2 points
 
by JustSayNoToDiacetylover 10 years ago

Interesting link. I think I will just stick with slow steeping because I am lazy, but that's interesting reading none the less.

1 points
 
by daathover 10 years agoMixologist

I feel exactly the same, though I've been considering trying to accelerate some of my blends, to see the results...

2 points
 
by speleo9over 10 years ago

I was not aware of any reducing sugars in juice that would make the Maillard reaction responsible for darkening.

2 points
 
by ihatetoridethebusover 10 years ago

Same tought.

I even checked some msds sheets by tfa. I could not see any -ose Dulce we leche was main suspect as far as I was concerned.

Furthermore I have yet to experience any darkening in nicotine free juices.

2 points
 
by speleo9over 10 years ago

I haven't experienced any darkening of nic free liquid either. I think the lack of reducing substances, and the low temps tell us this reaction isn't responsible.

1 points
 
by ihatetoridethebusover 10 years ago

I lack the knowledge necessary to understand the molecule size and their ability to absorb visible light.

Tfa blueberry wild is slightly purple for example. I have not seen a difference between the slightly basic blueberry wild and tfa blueberry wild mixed with citric acid. I don't know if one observation is enough to come to an conclusion but as of now I would exclude acid - base reactions or equilibria to be responsible.

I just realise that there is not enough research on here concerned with the colours of liquids.

2 points
 
by FarkMcBarkover 10 years ago

So you can confirm that you have flavours that do nedd steeping as 0mg but do not darken without nicotine?

I really wish we could get some more "open source" science in this steeping business. Before I have always assumed that it's really about mixing and overcoming inter molecular forces that make the olfactory molecules clump together and not trigger the olfactory receptors. But there are even competing theories how olfaction works (shape theory, vibration theory).

1 points
 
by ihatetoridethebusover 10 years ago

I made this recipe with 0mg and 6mg. While i like it as a shake and vape, it gets better after a week. The colour in hte Omg version didn't change after 2months while the 6mg one got a slight yellowness.

2 points
 
by daathover 10 years agoMixologist

Apparently VG contributes to this.

Google search for Glycerol Maillard :)

1 points
 
by ihatetoridethebusover 10 years ago

I just looked at the molecule dumbfounded. Thank you. Triple oh-.

Still the top 3 links state a reducing of time needed for the maillardreaction to take place!not a substitution of sugars with glycerol

1 points
 
by daathover 10 years agoMixologist

Apparently VG contributes to this.

Google search for Glycerol Maillard :)

1 points
 
by speleo9over 10 years ago

Thanks! I wasn't aware of this.

1 points
 
by torturedzenover 10 years ago

Whatever was posted, I'm unable to see anything.

1 points
 
by daathover 10 years agoMixologist

Does the site not load for you?

1 points
 
by torturedzenover 10 years ago

It partially loads, but no image. There's an orange notification bar but that's all.

1 points
 
by daathover 10 years agoMixologist

Very odd - Did you try with a different browser? Sometimes I see google analytics hang and make the page weird - but very rarely on here the ELR forums...

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