EDIT: Thanks to /u/jimllermcp and /u/montr0n I got it figured out, I didn't take into account the PG based flavors (I assumed the calc I was using did this, but it did not. I have since switched to a different calculator to double check my work)
So I did DIY at the shop I worked at for quite some time and never had this issue.
Yesterday, I got my first DIY-at-home vapemail. After mixing my first bottle, shaking it frequently as well as letting it sit for 24 hours (shaking occasionally for 5-15 minutes), it's still very very thin and watery for a 70/30 mixture. It's like I can SEE the thick viscosity of it in the bottle, but when I drip it from the drip lid of the bottle, it's extremely watery and runny, not at all like it appears in the bottle.
Is this an issue of the VG/PG just needing to sit longer to completely mix? Or is this what my 70/30's will always be with the products I purchased (Essential Depot VG/PG, Wizard Labs 100mg/mL PG-based Nic)? It's making me consider moving up to 80/20 (I vape on drippers).
Side note: Could anyone help me figure out the math the convert my current 30mL 70/30 bottle to 80/20? I just need to figure out how much VG to add to get it up there.
This is the formula I used, and I was as accurate as possible (bit of a control freak about things like this)
Attempted Results:
• 70/30 VG/PG Ratio
• 6mg/mL nicotine
• 20% Flavoring
What I did:
• 16.8mL VG
• 5.4mL PG
• 1.8mL nicotine (PG base)
• 6mL flavors (4mL TFA Citrus Punch, 1.5mL Capella Energy Drink, .5mL TFA Lemon Lime)
This was never an issue before when I mixed at the shop, but for some reason I am getting a mix that appears thick, but when dripped, it comes out very thin, almost watery. Any insight on this? Should I try a hot water bath with intermittent shaking? Do I just need to give it more time? Do I need to add ingredients in a different order? This time I did Flavors > VG > PG > Nic. When I mixed at the shop I did VG > PG > Flavors > Nic. Could that make a difference? I can't imagine it would, but it's a variable worth asking about.
The last question I have is... What is usually the "max" percentage of flavorings you want in your juice? Reading the TFA Flavor Megathread, I noticed that Citrus Punch is recommended @ 10%, Energy Drink @ 5-7%, etc. Are these values talking about the percentage to use in your final juice mixture? Say I'm using 20%, would I need to use half of my mix percentage with Citrus Punch for it to flavor the mix in the best way possible? Do people ever use more than 20%? What's the suggested maximum % of flavorings to use? I've read that less-is-more and that using too much flavor can really cancel everything out to the point where you are losing flavor or your mix ends up flavorless. What are your thoughts on it?
Thanks again everyone, any help is greatly appreciated as I work towards fine-tuning these things from the very beginning of DIYing at home so that future mixes (that I've custom created on my own at the shop) turn out exactly how they originally did. It will be much less headache/wastefulness to have them turn out correctly from the beginning as well.
If anymore info is needed, feel free to ask and I'll provide it!
TL;DR: Juice mix too thin. Curious about why that is. Curious to know if someone could help me with the math to turn my current 30mL 70/30 into 80/20, or at least a viable way of adding more VG to (hopefully) thicken it up. This may not even work for all I know. I hope the experts will chime in :) I also would like to know the maximum amount of flavor percentage that is widely accepted as "the max," as I'm currently using 20% and I don't really expect it to go much higher than that. Curious to know about how the "recommended percentage" of [a specific] flavoring is calculated in a final mix, say it's 10% for TFA CP, do I need to use 10% in my mix with other flavors for best results, or is this 10% recommendation an assumption that the flavor is being used on it's own?
Thanks again for any help!
I know my mixes have been getting thinner and thinner the last few weeks, as the weather gets warmer. Could be that. Also, max flavor % is not a static number. It depends on what brand/flavors/personal tastes are. Good luck on your mixing !
So, in theory I could make a 30mL bottle with 48.2% flavoring (all PG), 50% VG, 1.8% PG nic base for a 50/50 mix? I would never do that because nearly 50% flavor would be absurd and likely terrible haha.
Is there a guide to go by that suggests what amounts of each flavor (based on brand) I should use in mixes? I only use Cap/TFA. I understand it is subjective, but perhaps something like the TFA Megathread I was reading, but for Cap flavors.
Also, do you know what they mean by the percentages they use? Like I said in my OP, say it suggests 10% for a certain flavor (TFA citrus punch specifically), does that mean I should use 10% of it in my final calculations of all flavors being used for "best" (again, subjective) results?
You may find this helpful.
https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/pub?key=0AkX4_hQ6Fu8HdEwwR2dLRUJlVjlabEN1NG1ucktuUVE&gid=0
Actually, could you explain this to me a bit? On Cap specifically, there's a % value in yellow labeled with Ø, and then another next to it labeled with "empf," what do both of those values mean? I assume the other ones in the row labeled with people's names are just that specific persons suggestion/recommendation? Or am I way off?
Sorry, just want to be sure I fully understand so I can get the most out of it because it looks to have everything!
Thanks again BB 😘
It's been really hot in Portland the last couple days and my juice has noticeably thinned out.
As for turning 30ml of 70/30 into 80/20: your current 70% vg mix contains 21ml of vg in the bottle (30 x 0.7 = 21). I'm sure there is an easier way to do the math but I figured that you need to add 15ml of vg to your mix to bring it to 80% vg. My formula was like this: (ml of vg) ÷ (ml of entire mix) = percentage of vg in mix. So your mix now is 21 ÷ 30 = 0.7 or 70% vg. I added 1 ml to each side of the division symbol until my solution was 0.8 or (80%). 36 ÷ 45 = 0.8 (80%). 36 - 21 = 15. Math was never my strong suit so hopefully someone can verify that this is right :p
Edit: and regarding flavor %. I believe that less is more for the most part. When I started diy I mixed at about 10-15% and gradually made mixes that hit 20% (not pleasemt imo). Since then I have made better mixes with smaller % of flavors. Right now I'm vaping on a mix I recently made that is 9% flavor and it is way better than any 15-20% I made. Start low, maybe around 5-10%, and adjust to taste.
Thanks man! I'm just a bit curious though, based on that math, since I've already made this 70/30 in a 30mL, I'll have to increase my entire mix to 45mL via 15mL of VG to get the 80/20 I want? If so, that makes sense, and at least from what I know (math wasn't my best subject either haha), it seems to check out.
I live in San Diego and it's been pretty consistently hot here as well, but I've been making these indoors where it is much cooler, and I also had made those other mixes (from when I worked in the shop) in hot/sunny San Diego, but this was actually in a storefront where it was not as cool as it is in my house. That's why I ruled out the temperature as a factor, but I suppose it still could play a role.
I wish I could take a picture or video that shows this mixture well enough to see what I mean by this. It looks thick, it shakes up as if it is quite viscous, but as soon as I pull the dropper out and drip onto my RDA, it comes out super thin. It's so strange!
Also, your advice on flavor % is much appreciated. I'm going to tone down my 20% to around 10% next time (but use the same flavors) and see how that works out.
Edit: oh and what part of Portland are you in!? I lived in Beaverton (NOT PORTLAND FOR ANYONE THAT READS THIS THAT GETS UNREASONABLY UPSET ABOUT PEOPLE FROM THE TRON/PORTLAND LINE CLAIMING THEY LIVE IN PORTLAND 😅) for almost 5 years before moving to San Diego in September of last year. I miss it a bit, but the lack of clouds/presence of the sun every day in SD reminds me that I like it here much better, hahaha.
Yeah your total mix would equal 45 after adding vg to make it 80%vg (if my math is right).
Best of luck with the flavor %. When I got started I assumes more % = stronger flavor, but that's not the way it works out. More % can overload your senses and make the flavor weaker. Keep experimenting and you will find that golden percentage :)
Also, you can search for flavors in this sub. Usually you can find a thread where someone recommends a percentage.
Excellent, thank you for the advice. Common sense told me the same thing, you'd think more flavoring = more flavor haha, but I quickly learned that wasn't the case. The reason I did 20% is because I thought it was a relatively common starting point, but it may be why my flavor is not popping like it used to (mixed by weight in the shop and I didn't really take notes for repeatability and kinda winged it... Not a good idea. But now I prefer mixing my volume and taking plenty of notes.) I will be at least halving my % to see where that takes me and adjusting from there.
Thanks again man
The recipe you posted is closer to 55% VG than 70%. Looks like you're not factoring the PG content of your flavoring because you need 21mL of VG to make 70/30 with all PG-based flavors/nic.
You could have accidentally pulled from your pg twice or purchased a mislabeled bottle of pg. Only 2 logical scenarios I can think of
Maybe you made a mistake, they are really easy to make
Thank you for your insight.
... But seriously though, a mistake where? Can you pin-point a mistake that could have been made to produce the issue i'm having? As far as I know, everything I did was correct based on the numbers I had figured out prior. I measured all of my additives in syringes, and unless you see an issue with the math and ratios, I don't believe a mistake was made.
Just as /u/jimllermcp said, 16.8mL of vg in a 30mL batch is 56/44 vg/pg. You need 21 mL of vg in a 30mL bottle to make a 70/30 blend. I'd suggest you use a calculator program to avoid mistakes like this in the future. There's a few in the sidebar. A lot of my friends use e-liquid-recipes.com. I like Recipe Calculator.