Repost from ECR:
What's up everybody, so I recently wanted to move to vaping unflavored nicotine base, so I ordered some 3mg/ml 70VG/30PG nicotine base from Nude Nicotine. Got the order in about 3 days, and I shook it for about 5 minutes vigorously. Set it up in an RDA, put it at 10 watts, and I got an extreme throat hit, a throat hit so strong that it could only be characterized as a throat hit that could change your perspective on life, and the ever pleasant taste of burning asphalt/pepper. I characterized this as simply being my error of not shaking the base enough, so I shook it for another 5 minutes; loaded it up on a brand new RDA, 7 watts, no change. I contact NN and they agree to replace it for me (I must say their customer service is good).
In the meantime I have a friend test it out, and he instantly said it's easily 30-50mg/ml. He recommended to me to try Wizard Lab's, which I ordered basically the same base ratio and strength as I did from NN, and it was great! A day later (today) I received the replacement from NN. This time I shake it for about 10 minutes extremely vigorously. New RDA, 7 watts, this time, while not as bad as the first, was still harsh beyond words, no burnt asphalt taste but the flavor I'd characterize as if you took a pepper cracker, took the top off, and dumped the non-cracked peppercorns directly into your mouth (see: not good). Easily 12-18mg/ml. Just to mention, I've been vaping since 2010 and even when I vaped 18mg/ml, I never remembered anything this peppery and the throat hit I am at a loss for words. And at that time it was with a 901 atomizer with an air-hole the size of a pin needle, not a Chalice or a Rogue wide open.
So with all this being said, just wanted to see if anyone had similar experiences with Nude Nicotine, or anything you may think I may have done wrong, basically please help me mourn the loss of my throat and tongue.
EDIT: I spoke with Jake, the owner of Nude Nicotine, really good guy! He explained to me what may of happened with my nicotine base in great detail, and while I don't have the e-liquid knowledge to know exactly what happened, after talking to Jake, I trust him 140% to get me something I enjoy. One crucial point, is I am vaping the base as an e-liquid, so I'm kind of using his product outside what it is manufactured for. Jake is actually going to make an entire new category dedicated to unflavored e-liquid, that he will put some additional processes on to make it replicate the experience you get from his final product e-liquid, but with no flavor. I truly appreciate this, and I am now a huge supporter of Nude Nicotine. I will update all of you with the results of the next replacement, and I have to say; much respect to Jake! Someone that passionate and dedicated to his business and customers is one in a million. Thanks Nude Nicotine, and I am excited for what is to come!
I had some questions about the strength of my recent order as well. I have the 50mg/ml 70/30 and it seems WAY stronger than what it is. I mix for a final ratio of 3mg/ml and I am positive it ended up way stronger than that. Had a few other vape geeks test and confirm my thoughts. Not sure how to test it beyond that.
If you bought 3mg/ml nic base and you received 30-50, that's fucking irresponsible and dangerous. When I had an issue, I was ordering 100mg/ml nic base and getting ~170-190mg/ml base instead. Relatively, this is far less dangerous since I plan to mix it at least 1:10 anyway, but it means my 3mg is ~5mg and my 6mg is ~11mg, not that my 3mg is ~30+mg. That's fucking insane.
For reference, here are my posts on this subject:
the most important part being 3. I've seen a couple other threads in the last couple weeks about this same topic... i really hope people aren't falling for any of the lines about "not mixing enough" or "fresher nicotine is harsher"... it's nonsense.
Test your nic. you can buy the requisite materials (Bromothymol blue, HCl .1N or H2SO4 .01N, syringes and a beaker/flask) for less than $20.
I did have all of this from my pool chemical kit and my fishes aquarium kit actually! I ended up running out of Sulfuric Acid at 10ml's, used 1ml of the base (70/30 so mixing shouldn't be as bad as what they were claiming the issue was with yours), solution didn't turn yellow, what does this mean?
I'm planning on running out to by more Sulfuric Acid to make some .01M solution to see how far it goes. What's that device you have that shook the bottle? I want to do this scientifically so I can see what's going on here.
It's a basic titration. Assuming you did the test correctly, using distilled water as the medium, nudes own nic test chart says you're at over 30mg/ml with 10ml of acid. http://www.nudenicotine.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/08/Nude-Nicotine-Test-Kit-Calculations-Sheet.pdf
if you never made it to yellow, it's stronger than that.
I did use distilled water, and yeah I never made it to yellow. Fuck, this stuff could really be 40-50 maybe 60mg/ml. I'm pissed I ran out of Acid because I have two bottles (they sent me a replacement for the first). If the second was that far over too (which I believe it is).
This isn't the first time somebody has been concerned about the strength of NN's nicotine bases. Probably won't be the last either.
The best way to test it is by titration, which you may or may not remember from high school chemistry. It's pretty easy, but does require some lab equipment and patience.
NN sells a kit, but I'm sure there are other vendors that do the same thing. http://www.nudenicotine.com/product/nude-nicotine-test-kit-high-resolution/
http://www.vape-break.com/2011/08/determination-of-nicotine-in-e-liquid-by-titration/
Yeah, somebody else mentioned it, and I don't have lab equipment, I did a very basic test, I had a friend gently swirl a beaker while I put 1ml of the base, and the .01M Sulfuric Acid, and the Bromothymol Blue, and I ran out of Sulfuric Acid at 10ml's. The solution did not turn yellow. What does that mean?
Was all that dissolved in distilled water that was ph neutral? Was the base mixed thoroughly? Assuming all the basics were covered, that's over 30mg/ml
If so, yeah, that's some strong stuff.
I'm genuinely getting sick of all these posts about NN. They seriously need to get their shit together. Things like this, are absolutely unacceptable.
Vaperstek it is.
{edited for redundancy redundancy}
I'm really not sure what everyone's deal is with NN. I use them exclusively, and use 100%vg 100mg/ml base. Drop .9 in all my 30ml bottles and it's excellent, and consistent.
I didn't find out about what anyone had to say about them until after I posted, after doing a basic test, the base is easily 40mg/ml, possibly higher. Again, supposed 3mg/ml. And I mean I'm vaping this straight up, you're diluting, so it'd be less apparent if something was off for you than it is for me.
> you're diluting, so it'd be less apparent if something was off for you than it is for me.
Not with 100mg. If it's off, you'll know within a puff or two, even if you diluted it down to what you thought was a pretty low nic level. You could be at 18mg even if you thought you were diluting to 3 or 6mg, and it doesn't take much on on a dripper to know you've got way too much nicotine.
Agreed. I know immediately when I'm using 6mg in an RDA instead of my usual 3mg.
I have 1L of Nude Armor and 500mL of their regular nic, both at 100mg/mL in 100% VG. I also have a free 3mg/mL, 100% VG sample they sent me with my last order, and one of their test kits. I'm actually going to go test all three tonight and report back.
I've already cracked open one of the Nude Armor aliquots, so no loss there.
More to come ...
I have to agree after reading what you said. I remember dripping 6mg by mistake and regretting that mistake for the rest of the day. In this case though, my friend when he tried it thought I played a joke on him, like I gave him some absurd amount of nicotine on purpose.
He also noted the same thing I did about the quality of the nicotine, PG, and VG that they themselves tasted similar to what you'd find in Chinese liquids of yesteryear, harsh, peppery taste for the nicotine, and a sweet "off" tasting VG, and a throat killing PG. His first guess at nicotine level was 36mg/ml, and I had surmised to myself around 30-50mg/ml, so we both kind of got the same impression. From my test, I ran out of Acid at 10ml's in on 1ml of NN base so from Project's reply to me, that means it's at least over 30mg/ml. if my test is even 50% accurate (+/- 15mg/ml) that's still unacceptable because we're talking I ordered 3mg/ml.
Just for clarity sake, I did follow his advice and purchase 70/30 3mg/ml from Wizard Labs, and it's absolutely smooth with a slight sweetness from the VG, it's not perfect but it's 90% of what I was looking for in an unflavored ADV. Got it in my NEXTGENny and loving it.
As others have suggested, get test kits (I use Wizard's) and test your nic solution as soon as it arrives. I use very low nic so I usually buy 250ml of 60mg/ml every 6 months or so, and give it a test on arrival. Wizard's nic is always very close to what is listed (any error is more likely my test error than their mixing error). The test kits allow you to do a bunch of tests for less than $10.
I did test the base with some glass beakers and chemicals I had from my pool and aquarium, from what Project said, my base is above 30mg/ml. Which means at minimum it's 10x off.
So I just titrated two 1mL and 3mL samples of 100mg/mL Nude Nicotine in 100% VG from lot numbers A084 and A086. Averaged out to 103mg/mL and 104mg/mL, respectively.
I'm perfectly happy with these results, considering the lack of resolution in the titration.
I just got some nude in today, though it's 100mg/ml in PG, but it does make me nervous to use it until I get more test kit supplies. They also included a 3mg/ml VG base like those casual mix things in a 15ml sampler. Just mixed in some flavors, will update after I try it out.
After testing out a new melon recipe, I have to say mine seems legit. This was my first nic order from nude due to BCV's current nic shortage. I probably won't get to the big bottle for awhile yet. Also, for those of you who regularly order from nude, do they always send a lab test readout with their nic?
Yeah we just switched from NudeNicotine after using it exclusively for the last year. Lots of throat hit. Thankfully the nicotine levels were fine, just really harsh. Switched over to VapersTek, everything is smooth again. About a gallon of 100mg/ml nicotine is unusable.
I did test it and it came out extremely high, but I do also perceive the nic itself is low quality (harsh, peppery). I test vaped some of my friends 18mg e-liquid in my dripper, and the 18mg e-liquid was almost pleasant at 10 watts, this stuff you vape it and it feels like inhaling burning rubber.
Wow, that's really bad. Thankfully ours wasn't that bad, just a bit of added throat hit that was uncharacteristic. I just made a blog post on our site about the nicotine swap we made - http://tbdliquids.com/blogs/news/31917315-changed-nicotine-source
Definitely recommend swapping to VT. Good people over there. A little pricier, but I'll gladly pay more for better nicotine.
This not the best news. I just received 100% 100mg nic from them. I was excited to use it for juice, but this post and these comments make me feel like I need to find another nic provider.
Spend the $10 on a test kit from them or one of several other vendors (Wizard Labs, Heartland, etc.) If it tests fine (I'd run it twice just to be sure), then don't worry about it...of course, whether you choose to buy from them in the future is a whole other thing.
Nude's response (from previous cases) seems to be that the nicotine "separates" in a 100% VG base and hot spots form. I have no idea whether this is true or not (not a chemist), but if it is true wouldn't it be wise to stick to 100% PG nic? Has anyone ever had this issue from their 100% PG nic?
Also, I am pretty sure other companies sell 100% VG nic. Has anyone ever heard of this problem elsewhere?
The "hot spots" thing happens, but there's a simple solution for that: shake the bottle. Assuming OP did shake it (twice, according to him), I don't see why it wouldn't be redistributed back into the overall liquid. If it's still high after that, then that means that OP either 1) got ridiculously unlucky and hit another pocket (highly unlikely), or 2) NN fucked up...again. Given Nude's previous issues with twenty5oh1, I'm much more inclined to go with option 2.
EDIT: I feel I should also mention that I have had 100% VG nic base from Nude before, and had no issues. I used 72mg base and diluted it down to 36mg to work with; I always shook the main bottle for a few minutes before diluting it, and never had "hot spot" problems. Given this, and the fact that plenty of people use 100% VG nic base (from various vendors) without issue, I don't think the problem is having a VG nic base. VG is more difficult to suck up through syringes and pipettes, but aside from that it shouldn't be any more difficult to use than PG-based nic (we're operating under the assumption that everyone shakes their liquids before using them, because duh ;) .)
I ordered 250ml of 3mg/ml 70VG/30PG nicotine base from nude and got it the other day. I've mixed about 60ml's worth of it and so far i'm really enjoying it. Sorry that you're having bad experiences with it man. It's kinda concerning. I was planning to keep ordering them because their prices are great but I hate inconsistency.
this is the 2nd time i read this place is selling stronger than stated nic.. why still order from here? im no expert and only bought from one place and enough not to order for a few years but myfreedomsmokes nic is cheap, clear and i have no problems with strengths
Disregarding the nicotine issues, what kind of RDA fires at 7 watts?
DNA 40 with a Chalice V3.
I'd be curious to see how /u/NudeNicotine responds. Their handling of Jay's situation was, frankly, kind of a clusterfuck.
I suspect we'll get radio silence. They really have no answer for this at this point. I'm shocked I still see recommendations for them in this sub. I don't go out of my way to say to people who recommend it that they're crazy for using it, but threads like this keep popping up, I just don't get it.
Yeah, I'm about done with my bottle from the same batch as your bad one (mine's still fine, although it's finally starting to get a bit peppery and oxidised.) I'll have to reorder in the next few weeks, and I really don't think I trust NN anymore. I'll probably go with VapersTek, Heartland or even Wizard Labs.
For all of Nude's hubris over being chemists and owning a GCMS, they sure aren't living up to their own supposed high standards. Funny thing is, most people (myself included) might very well have been able to forgive them if they'd just handled your situation the right way, the first time! instead, they did everything short of calling you a liar, until they were faced with so much evidence that they had no other choice but to finally admit they fucked up. They didn't do themselves any favors with that.
Maybe Jake is just in over his head.. could really use some better QC. And DEFINITELY better customer service. He's a really nice guy when you eventually get ahold of him, very helpful to me back when I first started DIYing.
Idk these issues keep popping up.. With something as toxic and dangerous as nicotine we really shouldn't let this get swept under the rug like what happened with you.
They have the worst customer service I've personally ever encountered in the industry.
The way Jake handled /u/project_twenty5oh1's issue was embarrassing.
I've been more than happy with their customer service, the products the issue. That's just my experience though.
Did your nic base come with a dropper as the cap? If they use cheap rubber in the bulb, it can sweat out some really nasty tasting stuff.
I've switched to Carolina Xtraction nic and have been 100% happy with them so far, very clean tasting. I believe they are the only ones with U.S. grown tobacco. Nude Nicotine is Chinese sourced and VapersTek is Indian, even though they say U.S. and U.K. made.
Unfortunately Carolina Xtraction doesn't do low nic bases, so you would need to mix yourself. Heard VapersTek is good too, but haven't tried them myself.
I bought vaperstek 100mg/ml 100% VG in December it was very clean tasting when I got it & still today tastes exact same. I definitely recommend Vaperstek. I'm gonna need more soon & I was actually gonna try NN just for the fact Jake from NN seems like a really nice guy, all these posts have scared me away though. Guess I'm sticking with V.T why fix it if it ain't broke..
All of our batches are titrated and tested within 99 percent or our target strength threshold before release :-) a huge misconception to nicotine bite can be the freshness of solution. While a good many other purveyors of nicotine base may use a solution that has had time to mesh with the diluent or sit on a shelf to oxidize, we spike ours to order.
Extreme agitation and adequate preparation are always required to enjoy a nicotine base. unflavored flavored nicotine base will be extremely strong fresh out of the bottle, but will oxidize to a more palatable and smoother flavor as time progresses, similar to the oxidation of a normal eliquid flavor. Active L nicotine bite oxidizes to a composition of many nicotine-n-oxides, a little smoother but very much so less potent that active nicotine. The majority or entirety of the market share you liquids has been oxidized beyond the point of active L-nicotine detection. Saddening to say the least. This customer's order was extremely recent, likely echoing these woes.
We happily replaced this customers solution well also pulling records confirming a 99% CI formulation on the first batch by Gas Chromatography. A second was sent Priority Mail immediately without question and was also tested before release, falling within the 99 percent threshold by Gas Chromatography.
Do you think this might be someone trying to drive business away from you? Maybe a competitor who needs to tip the scales in his favor a little? I guess that might be as far fetched as this thread itself but I know things like that happen in online communities like this where word of mouth travels incredibly far. Personally, I've had great results with your product and will continue to do business with you. But I will drop you like a sack of dirty diapers if you send me some nasty nicotine.
It's not so far fetched if you consider what happened with my nude order, and the several others who were affected around the same time I ordered.
And never received the promised email.. Ive never had this issue with any other nic i have purchased. VT and Carolina Xtract have both been spot on in titration tests, with the normal margin of error. The lot we received averaged 189mg/ml over three tests.
Never again.
EDIT TO ADD: Before i tested i heated the mixture to 100 degree's F then shook for an hour, a half hour from me and a half hour from the wife. This was NOT a hotspot issue in this case.