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A lot of my juice is too harsh to drip
submitted over 10 years ago by DizfunkyOne of "The Damned"

So I recently got into DIY and had several successful batches before I got in my nicotine and I was mixing at 0mg. Then I got a 100mg/ml base from NudeNicotine and began adding 3-6mg of nicotine to some of my batches.

The first thing I noticed that was different was the color of my juice became substantially darker. Another thing I noticed is that when I added nicotine to my juice, it seems to impart a generous throat hit when I'm mixing at MAX VG or 70/30 VG/PG. All my flavorings are TFA/CAP in 100% PG so MAX VG is as close as I can get. My nicotine base is 50/50 VG/PG 100mg/ml. I store it in a cool, dark, place and only open it once or twice a week to mix.

I guess I was just expecting it to be smooth as a premium juice at 3mg. It's certainly not unbearable by any means it's just not what I was expecting out of the throat hit. I'm asking, is this all normal? Darkening of juice and substantial throat hit from nicotine? Another thing is that I can't seem to make an enjoyable ADV. I've fell in love with a lot of premium flavors but I've yet to make a flavor that really made me say, "wow, DIYing is now invaluable to me"

I'm expecting some FA and FLV flavors to come in soon and I will mix 0mg and 3mg batch of identical recipes to fully examine the difference.

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6 points
 
by shrine399over 10 years ago

I'm a little short on time right now so I'll throw a few tips your way that hopefully will help you out.

  • Be careful when measuring 100mg/ml. It is very highly concentrated nicotine and minor discrepancies can result in large error. 3mg can quickly turn into 4mg if you mess up by .1mL/g

  • A lot of "premium" juice lines lie about how much nicotine they put in their juice. I sell a juice at my store that advertises a 2mg bottle as 6mg. Customers think it's "high quality" because it's so smooth, but in reality it's just not 6mg, or even 3mg, so there's no throat hit.

  • Some flavors will add to throat hit. CItrusy notes, bready/cakey notes majorly.

  • The darkening in color from nicotine is normal. As nicotine oxidizes it gets darker and accentuates any per-existing color the in the juice from the extracts, even turning clear juice yellow.

  • Try toning down your flavoring, overflavoring can add throat hit as well.

I'll stop back later if I think of anything else.

2 points
 
by Dizfunkyover 10 years agoOne of "The Damned"

Thank you for the advice it is much appreciated!

1 points
 
by skiddlzninjaover 10 years agoFrugivore

To add on to what he said, also be wary of nicotine in anything but 100% PG, as VG greatly increases the rate of oxidation, since VG itself draws water from the atmosphere. So if your nicotine isn't just-removed-the-seal new, it is going to taste worse than PG nicotine. At 3 mg, it only decreases the VG ratio by 3%.

1 points
 
by shrine399over 10 years ago

A further note, sugars/sweeteners can catalyze the oxidation of nicotine, resulting in faster color change. Just something to keep in mind :)

1 points
 
by _EatTheRichover 10 years ago

I had a feeling that was going on. Now I know why some of those premiums didn't scratch the itch for me. How common would you say this is among "premium" liquid makers?

1 points
 
by shrine399over 10 years ago

I wouldn't say it's terribly common, but it is very present and obvious when it is.

If you're ever curious why a "6mg" is just so darn smooth, grab a nicotine test kit from wizard labs and find out for yourself exactly what nicotine level it is.

No matter what nicotine I use in my e-Juice, be it NudeNicotine, VapersTek, ECX, etc. a 6mg has a throat hit. When I try a juice that is advertised as 6mg and has no throat hit, I am immediately suspecting false advertising.

0 points
 
by Kamfyover 10 years ago

false advertising much

9 points
 
by EphramRafaelover 10 years ago

It's an odd phenomenon I've noticed as a manager in a cigar shop and an employee in a vape shop. People equate the weirdest things with quality.

In cigars, there is flavor and there is body. Body is nicotine content. A full bodied cigar is higher in nicotine than a milder bodied cigar.

For some reason, for a long time now, people have correlated darker cigars (those with maduro or oscuro wrappers) with fuller body. Much like roasting coffee, tobacco actually LOSES nicotine when darkened by fermentation or heating. There is a trend in the cigar industry that darker wrappers are generally placed around fuller bodied fillers and binders, but that's all it is. There is no rule that says every dark cigar is strong - yet people vehemently believe this as fact.

For six years, I explained this to people and was met with resistance damn near constantly. I heard:

"You're wrong." "Well every dark cigar I've smoked has been strong." "My cousin/brother/father/grandfather/dog/pet caterpillar rolls cigars and they said dark cigars are stronger."

The point I'm trying to make is that even if /u/shrine399 did tell people "Hey, listen, the reason you like that juice so much is because we tested it out at 2mg/mL nicotine instead of the advertised 6mg/mL. This is why it's so 'smooth' as you pointed out," they would probably just tell him "No, you're wrong. I need 6mg/mL, and this works for me. Clearly you must be wrong."

Sadly it happens more often than you'd think, and eventually, we just stop trying to correct people's deep seeded opinions. Within 15 seconds of conversation a decent retail employee can determine whether someone just wants what they want or whether they want to be a more informed consumer who makes more educated buying decisions.

I definitely didn't mean to come off as a dick. This was simply my two cents and a little explanation.

Edit: As a more relevant explanation, some guy recently came in with a bottle of 99%+ VG liquid. The nicotine was 12mg/mL.

Now, right away, why this juice even exists is beyond me, but I tried to explain to him how they were lying about what was in the bottle. 12mg/mL means that 1.2% of that bottle is nicotine, pure nicotine, not nicotine in a suspension of VG/PG... literally 1.2% of that bottle's contents were nicotine molecules. 100-1.2=98.8, so even before we talk about adding flavors, that 99% is already incorrect.

This is going to turn into an argument for regulation, so I'll just leave off by saying consume these products however you want to consume them, but it's safer to treat a disagreement as just that. I tried to tell a guy last night that cheap chargers can cause a house fire. Failure to terminate charging correctly could lead to overcharging and venting the battery. I had before tested one of this guy's batteries out on a DMM at 4.24V, so I know that charger wasn't terminating correctly. We argued. He accused me of "Trying to sell [him] overpriced shit." and told me to "Fuck off, Captain Crunch!" and left. It was odd.

People get violent about battery chargers for some reason. :/

5 points
 
by Randeumover 10 years ago

I want a pet caterpillar who rolls cigars for me.

4 points
 
by quidprobonoover 10 years ago

Ex coffee roaster here. So funny how the darker=stronger myth crosses so many genres. I tried to explain it to customers and eventually gave up.

1 points
 
by shrine399over 10 years ago

Appreciate the further explanation and representation of the daily retail life :P

"Sadly it happens more often than you'd think, and eventually, we just stop trying to correct people's deep seeded opinions. Within 15 seconds of conversation a decent retail employee can determine whether someone just wants what they want or whether they want to be a more informed consumer who makes more educated buying decisions."

100% true.

0 points
 
by shrine399over 10 years ago

It's not my responsibility to advertise, in any way shape or form, the nicotine content or quality contained in a "premium" juice line I carry in my shop. If the company decides they want to take advantage of the non-regulated market that is the vaping industry, then so be it. The label says 6mg, so it is sold as 6mg juice. The same as any other juice that I carry in any other mg level. When someone asks for a 3mg, I tell them the 6mg feels more like a 3mg which they usually agree with and end up purchasing it.

I never once told someone, in opposite, that it's 100% guaranteed to be 6mg juice, even though it feels closer to a 3mg.

-1 points
 
by BrosGrimmover 10 years ago

Uhh, what non sense are you peddling.

Any quality nicotine won't oxidize unless it's old or been store improperly.

Second, you don't label your bottles with the mg content?! That's just bad on you.

Premium vendors do in fact titrate their batches to insure properly nicotine levels and do not profit from selling a subpar product. Product A for the customer satisfies their addiction, Product B does not; which one is the consumer going to purchase?

1 points
 
by skiddlzninjaover 10 years agoFrugivore

Where in this does he say he doesn't label his nicotine content?

1 points
 
by shrine399over 10 years ago

I am sorry that you have been so mistakenly informed.

It feels too labored to formulate a response to such an obvious attack (unjustly and obviously misunderstood) on my comment. You obviously failed to either fully read or fully comprehend what I've written. That's..just...bad...on....you.

0 points
 
by BrosGrimmover 10 years ago

Spread misinformation. You can win the praise of the people of diy_ejuice, whatever that's worth.

5 points
 
by Thumper_357over 10 years ago

I always vaped at 6mg but when i made my first few bottles of juice they were very harsh so i dropped all the way down to 2mg and that did the trick for me. And every now and then I'll make a 3mg juice for special occasions like having a drink with my pals or a long drive for the nic fix. Drop it down to 2mg and see how you like it.

1 points
 
by Dizfunkyover 10 years agoOne of "The Damned"

I think I'll try this

2 points
 
by bigted209over 10 years agoProud Sidebar Reader!

A piece of my 2 week experience on DIY results.... Time. I generally test my mixes shortly after making them to see where it's at, and where I think it will be going. Day 1 they are harsh, no question there. Day 3+, they smoothe out a bit. I liken it to lack of proper mixing of the ingredients. They take time to meld, soften, and come in to their own so to speak. Plus, many flavorings have a degree of an alcohol content, alcohol irritates the throat and causes the harsh sensation. I've never been an overly patient man, perhaps my delve in to DIY will change that....

1 points
 
by Dizfunkyover 10 years agoOne of "The Damned"

I agree. I'm always very eager to try my mixes right away and I can see how that would be problematic.

1 points
 
by bigted209over 10 years agoProud Sidebar Reader!

Simple fruit mixes are about all that's shake and vape capable, even some of them need a day or 2 to settle and mellow. Creams, custards, and bakery types need at least a week if not 2. Tobaccos about the same from what I understand...not my cup of tea so I don't know from experience. I have the mrs hide my creations so that I can't cheat and try them early :/

1 points
 
by Dizfunkyover 10 years agoOne of "The Damned"

Yeah, I've seen that with my experience. Fruit mixes are tasty from the get go but some cinnamon, cream, or custard mixes I've made take a while to develop or "mature".

2 points
 
by project_twenty5oh1over 10 years agoMixologist

When dd you order your nicotine? what batch numbers?

I had a similar problem with nude's nicotine... http://www.reddit.com/r/DIY_eJuice/comments/2yccii/nude_nicotine_ridiculously_strong_lets_go_to_the/

2 points
 
by zerotoleranceftwover 10 years agoMixologist

We've been noticing a lack of consistency with Nude Nicotine in our last batch. We test each gallon of nicotine before using it and it is in fact 100mg/ml, however it has been adding a bit of throat hit as of late to our juice.

Proper nicotine storage. Goes through a rock tumbler for about 12 hours before we break it down to individual liters in amber glass bottles then store in freezer. After which we bring out a liter at a time for use (1L lasts about 2-3 days) so it's always used fresh. Despite this we still have noticed added throat hit.

We just switched back over to VapersTek and the juices are smooth again, kind of a bummer because Jake is/was such a nice guy.. though he was royally fucking us on 55 gallon VG prices lol

1 points
 
by project_twenty5oh1over 10 years agoMixologist

Interesting. Wonder what's going on over there. How's the vaperstek nic? I tried to pick some up from BC today and they didn't have any 100mg.

2 points
 
by zerotoleranceftwover 10 years agoMixologist

Very smooth. I made a bottle of Harvest Berry on Friday, both 3mg 80/20. One with nude nicotine & one with the vaperstek and VT's is incredibly smooth, whereas nude nic's is a bit throaty. Nude's is still vapeable, but it's not as smooth as it was over the last year and 1/2 or so that I've been using it. Not going to bother telling Jake.. will probably just get told we didn't shake it enough ಠ_ಠ (despite 6+ hours on tumbler after thawing)

1 points
 
by Dizfunkyover 10 years agoOne of "The Damned"

Order #12049 placed on March 26th and shipped on the 30th. So it's only about two months old.

1 points
 
by project_twenty5oh1over 10 years agoMixologist

Do you have any way to test the strength of the nic?

1 points
 
by FlyWithTheCarsover 10 years agoFrugivore

Yes, you can buy test kits

Edit: Changed link

1 points
 
by Dizfunkyover 10 years agoOne of "The Damned"

I've taken several chemistry courses recently and know how to titrate, but I don't have the supplies. Would a test kit like /u/FlyWithTheCars linked work okay?

2 points
 
by cjinctover 10 years ago

Split up the base you got into small bottles. Put all but the one you are currently using in the freezer, fridge, or cold dark drawer.

Every time you use your nic, taking the cap off, measuring out what you need, etc.. you are exposing it to light and oxygen. The higher the nix concentration, the more susceptible it is to degradation

1 points
 
by Dizfunkyover 10 years agoOne of "The Damned"

Is it too late to do that? I've only been storing the nicotine bottle in a cool, dark, dry place since I got it.

1 points
 
by cjinctover 10 years ago

> Is it too late to do that?

Not at all. It won't make the nic better but it will stop any further damage, so at least it won't get any worse ;)

2 points
 
by FluentInTypoover 10 years ago

Are you shaking up tye nicotine really really well before measuring? Nicotine is lighter than both PG and VG, so it will float on the top of the bottle. If you put a needle in that part and pull up nic without a good shake, youre probably pulling up 1000mg pure nic, not 100mg nic mixed with VG/PG. (The 1000 number is hyperbole, but demonstrates the point - pure nic rises to the top and if you dont shake, your adding a much higher concentrate of nic to your eliquid) This is one reason many use PG-only nicotine - its much easier to shake and disperse the nic through the bottle than the thick VG liquid.

1 points
 
by Dizfunkyover 10 years agoOne of "The Damned"

Thanks for the advice I will try it out

1 points
 
by ElvinFrishover 10 years ago

You're using too much Nic.

1 points
 
by RRjrover 10 years ago

Test your bases.

I ran into similar issues where I would repeatedly cough from a 2mg batch of some of my ADVs. It gave me this weird kind of throat hit that I would get from strong weed back in those days :)

Turns out that the 6mg PG I was using caused it. The 0mg PG on the other hand is giving me no issues whatsoever. So now I use 6mg VG instead, problem solved.

Obviously it's not a good idea to vape straigh 100mg, but you get the idea.

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