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I mix by volume and I think mixing by weight is pointless
submitted over 10 years ago by Ternopil

There seems to be a general consensus in this sub as to mixing by weight over mixing by volume, and I really don't get it. I have a background in chemistry and tons of lab experience and never in my life have I seen anyone measure a liquid by weight using a scale.

From what I understand, the 3 biggest benefits that people put forward are precision, easy of use, and tidiness.

  • Precision. Mixing my volume is more than good enough for any DIYer. As long as you have accurate syringes and know how to read volume measurements (how to read meniscus), you should never have a problem with accuracy. Furthermore, many people swear by the superior accuracy of their scales, which is simply not true. Scales are far from perfect, and the smallest things such as air movement inside a room causes fluctuations in scale readings. You will never have 100% precise measurements whether you measure by weight or volume (due to faulty equipment, human error, changes in temperature etc..), but these differences are minuscule and completely negligible.
  • Easy of Use. This part is often mentioned when recommending mixing by weight to beginner DIYers. Learning how to read a meniscus is cake, especially when compared to all the extra calculations you have to do to mix accurately by weight (most people don't even take into account that different flavours have different densities, which further reduces the accuracy of measurement if you really want to get religious about it).
  • Tidiness. When mixing by weight, you still have to somehow transfer the juice from the flavouring bottle to the batch bottle, which uses an equal amount of equipment and creates the same level of "mess" as mixing by weight does. Some flavours do come with dripper tops (almost none of mine do), which makes this a more-or-less valid point, but what happens when you accidentally add an extra drop or 2? If you mix by weight there's no going back, if you mix by volume you simply adjust the syringe to the required volume before adding anything to the batch. We're all adults here, it's not a problem to spend an extra minute cleaning equipment (it's a hobby for most of us, after all).

All of this is what I've gathered from previous posts about mixing by weight. I'd love to hear people's opinions on this, but as of now I really don't think the pricey investment in a buying a scale is justifiable and I much rather spend that money on a magnetic stirrer.

Comments
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31 points
 
by doctorfunknastyover 10 years ago

I thought that i was the only one. Thank you

9 points
 
by Ternopilover 10 years ago

You're not alone my man.

25 points
 
by dontgetaddictedover 10 years ago

My only reply to this is: fucking sucking VG up in a syringe.

7 points
 
by nameBrandonover 10 years ago

I actually take the needle off and just use the straight syringe for VG.. It's not too bad that way.

1 points
 
by dontgetaddictedover 10 years ago

I started doing that too, but then you get it all over the end of the syringe and some unmeasured vg is going to drip into your mix. And it's messy.

3 points
 
by nameBrandonover 10 years ago

Definitely messy.. Measuring by weight isn't really an issue for 'unmeasured' extra, I just use the syringe as I don't have a dripper for my quart-sized VG bottle.

It is better than waiting and pulling, though! :)

7 points
 
by MiteyFover 10 years ago

Takes me 5 seconds to suck up exactly 30 ml of VG with a big syringe. You obviously don't have the right setup.

2 points
 
by dontgetaddictedover 10 years ago

I'll stick with weight regardless. Less clean up. Less time.

2 points
 
by squiredover 10 years agoMixologist

But then you have a fat, sticky syringe. That's fine, most of us did as well, but why? It isn't more accurate, it isn't faster. Why?

6 points
 
by Ternopilover 10 years ago

Ahaha good point! Every time I draw VG in a syringe my lats are getting a workout.

6 points
 
by judasblueover 10 years ago

This would be why luer locks come in different gauges. I never have this problem because I use lower gauge syringes. You can squirt solder paste though syringes, which is a hell of a lot more viscous than VG.

PS: I agree with the point you are posting completely. The folks who are going off about cost are confusing to me. $15 in syringes and tips and you are done.

2 points
 
by dontgetaddictedover 10 years ago

Do they make larger than 16 gauge? Cause it still ain't easy unless you warm up the vg...then it's just slightly less frustrating.

1 points
 
by sliover 10 years agoTobacconist

I use enormous gauge (technical term) syringes and it's never really been an issue for me. Cold VG, on the other hand.

Fuck that.

3 points
 
by Enyawreklawover 10 years agoMixologist

I always add my VG last because I can just pour it straight in without measuring. Say I'm making a 30ml mix, I put all my other ingredients into the bottle first, then just fill to the top with VG. No measuring needed. If I'm making larger batches I just put all the ingredients first then fill up to desired ML amount with VG. It's so simple, I recommend everyone doing this unless you want absolutely PERFECT VG ratio, which isn't really that big of a deal.

1 points
 
by Nstewartover 10 years agoMixologist

I do the same thing, I just have the squeeze bottles in came in from walmart saved and it makes it pretty convenient.

1 points
 
by cash_shamelabout 10 years agoMixologist

I do this exactly use a funnel and just fill it to the top. I don't use PG so there is no reason to measure my VG

2 points
 
by tspderekover 10 years ago

Microwave it for 20 seconds or so. Easy as hell.

2 points
 
by notmyrealname17over 10 years ago

That's what I do!

2 points
 
by do_work_son_do_workover 10 years ago

shouldn't be hard at all, place container under warm water, vg gets easier to handle. I also stopped using plastic syringes and got myself these for flavors and nicotine, they are accurate enough and the markings wont rub off.

1 points
 
by JoeyFromTheRoc2over 10 years ago

I pour it into a measured cylinder and from there. Takes like 10 seconds to get in the ballpark of the amount I need and another 10 to measure it out precisely.

1 points
 
by Dark-Yodaover 10 years ago

I dump it in.. I just make it the last thing I add and top my bottle off

1 points
 
by Biffabinover 10 years ago

I use a glass measuring cylinder and pull out any extra. I've got a tube for one of my syringes instead of a syringe as well.

-1 points
 
by sillyconmindover 10 years ago

I only regret that I have but 1 upvote to give. Fuck that game.

22 points
 
by TonnytheDragonVaperover 10 years ago

I think where you miss why people here prefer mix by weight is that you are a chemist with proper equipment. By and large, we're amateurs here. To respond to your points individually:

  1. Precision: we're mostly going ballpark. Yes, with proper equipment and knowledge and practice volumetric measurements are more accurate when talking laboratory precision. But we're not working at that level.

  2. Ease of use: in a home mixing "lab", we can get by with a lot less equipment because of...

  3. Tidiness: the liquids we're mixing mostly come in dropper bottles And ones that don't are easily transeferred to dropper bottles. When I can drop directly from storage bottle into mixing bottle, I don't need any utensil to transfer. Again, not the most precise way to measure, but it's the right combination of accurate and accessible ballpark measure for a diy hobbyist. An extra drop or two? Won't mess up my mix if it's a big batch, and can be written off (with notes) as an "experiment" in a small batch.

Plus, the scale I use was $14 at a smoke shop and has cheech and chong on it. Not much of an investment. I know it isn't terribly accurate, and I don't expect it to be. But it suits my needs and saves me having to bother with cleanup at all unless I spill.

tl;dr for a chemist or a "professional", you're right. But for an amateur, by weight is close enough for government work and requires less equipment.

4 points
 
by Ternopilover 10 years ago

If your scale is only $14 then there's not much of a problem doing it either way. It's when I see people spend $>100 on a scale on their first DIY order without really knowing what they're doing that I wanted to address.

7 points
 
by Botboy141over 10 years ago

Where have you seen this? the mix by weight guide recommends a $25 scale and the posts I always see are about trying to find a scale for cheaper...

1 points
 
by Ternopilover 10 years ago

The point I was trying to get across is that many people spend a significant portion of their initial DIY investment on a scale, without really knowing what it does for them and if they even need it. $100 is an exaggeration, but its not uncommon to see people buying or recommending scales at the $50 price point (which I much rather spend on a cheap magnetic stirrer).

1 points
 
by ISmokeCatHairover 10 years ago

Precision can't be an argument if your argument is "we don't really need to be precise" And if your scale is only $14 I highly doubt it's accurate enough to use for this. If it can't tell the difference between 1 drop and 10, what's the point of having it?

17 points
 
by DrSnakensteinMDover 10 years ago

Mixing by volume was a bit of a chore for me. I started mixing by weight, all with dropper bottles and now I don't have to get anything out but the scale, the bottles to make the flavoring in, the flavors and the base liquids. If I get inspired to make something, it takes me no time to put it together.

I can also make 7ml batches that contain .5% ingredients. It was very tough to try to get 0.05ml accurately measured with any syringe I have.

It's a night and day difference in time, clean up, and accuracy.

1 points
 
by stnrlgcover 10 years ago

I have seen this "small volume argument" quite often in defense of mixing by weight. As the OP said and anyone else with serious laboratory experience knows serial dilution is your friend in these matters.
If you have an ingredient that is a common addition into mixtures then make a vial/bottle up as a 1->10 or 1->100 dilution. Then sample/aliquot 0.5 or 5ml respectively for your example. Easy peasy! And if you make enough dilution you will have a 'stock' for later mixtures.

1 points
 
by DrSnakensteinMDover 10 years ago

Very true, and i do have several dilutions that I use in this manner - It's very helpful.

However, here's my issue with this:

  1. I'd have to create a dilution each time I encounter something at a low percentage - and when working with Flavour Art, that might mean that the majority of the flavorings would need a dilution because of their high concentration.

  2. These dilutions also would require another container - I might need 30 or likely more extra containers in order to accomplish this - meaning more space these flavorings take up, and purchasing more bottles to accomplish this.

  3. Investing the amount of time to create these dilutions would almost double the amount of time I would need to make a recipe I might only make one time.

I certainly don't disparage anyone for mixing by volume. I did so for about 6 months before starting to mix by weight. In my case, I've found that mixing by weight has saved me considerable setup and cleanup time, and allows me to create small batches easily. I have everything in bottles with dropper heads on them and syringes are a thing of the past. VG just requires tilting a bottle and squeezing the desired amount into the container. I have the nicotine broken up into several squeeze bottles that I keep in the freezer, and only take one out when I've run out of the previous - meaning the nicotine is exposed to air much less.

If I were involved in the manufacturing of liquids other than for personal use, I'd certainly reconsider my methods, but for now, this method works great for me, and has taken a lot of the work out of the process of learning flavors and experimentation. Anything that removes the barriers of time consumption for being creative and spontaneous in the learning process is valuable.

1 points
 
by stnrlgcover 10 years ago

Totally understand your reasoning. In fact it is so reasonable i might have to get a scale lol

0 points
 
by squiredover 10 years agoMixologist

Exactly.

If I run out of my ADV, I can grab my scale/ingredients, mix a quick batch, put everything away safely, and be out the door in under 2 minutes. Zero cleanup.

I had completely quit playing with juice until I tried mixing by weight. It bright the joy back. No fuss, just play. :)

Yes, if you have a mini-lab setup with one syringe for each flavor and never clean them, then yeah, it might be almost as fast. Otherwise, not a chance. My gf also brought home a ridiculously expensive autopipet (from work) after laughing at me laboring over syringes, and even that didn't hold a candle to the speed and ease of mixing by weight overall.

14 points
 
by alive1over 10 years ago

I'll give you my two cents as someone who just started mixing by weight after sticking to only mixing by volume for a long time.

Mixing by weight is much faster and much tidier and a lot less work. I just get my bottle and start putting things in it until I'm done. Mixing by volume is much more precisely reproducible. You get the right amount every time. Using a syringe you can get the exact volume you need before you transfer it to the mix. When just pouring into the mix (by weight) I often end up pouring a little bit more. The cleanup is simpler with weight. Just cap your bottles and put them away. With volume I have to clean and wipe my syringes.

I think I'll stick to mixing by weight when mixing juices I'm familiar with and mixing by volume when I'm developing a new recipe.

1 points
 
by squiredover 10 years agoMixologist

Wait, are you literally "pouring" ingredients? If you have ingredients that aren't in drip bottles (like those evil vials from WL, just grab a bag of bottles from VTech (Amazon) for pennies. For nic/pg/vg, ketchup squeeze bottles are what you want. You can find them online or at craft shops in the paint section like Hobby Lobby. The tip will be sealed and you can cut it to whatever size opening you like (e.g. Stupid wide for freezer VG).

1 points
 
by alive1over 10 years ago

Thats a pretty good idea. I've just been pouring from my nic and vg bottles :)

But even with the flavours, using the little 15ml dripper bottles, I tend to put in a bit too much if I'm not super careful.

1 points
 
by myPlumsover 10 years ago

If you have a beauty supply store near you pick up some applicator bottles. 2 bucks a d you've got 20oz bottles for your pg and vg. Best. Thing. Ever.

10 points
 
by Elturielover 10 years ago

I started mixing by volume, but have since switched to weight, and I have no idea how you prefer volume. So much more tedious and messy and inconsistent.

5 points
 
by prokreatover 10 years ago

It's not more inconsistent. Measurements are pretty exact each and every time... It is more tedious though. And a squirt bottle of VG is so much easier than drawing it up into a syringe.

Benefits of both methods. Hell, I mix by drops doing small experimental batches...

3 points
 
by JohnLaCuentaover 10 years ago

Yeah, I mix by weight but let's not exaggerate it's benefits. Mixing by volume is just as consistent.

1 points
 
by MNVapesover 10 years ago

It really isn't. There's no flavor left inside the scale like there is with a syringe. You also don't have to worry about flavors eating/swelling your scale like you do with syringes.

1 points
 
by prokreatover 10 years ago

On top of that, DIY is more about experimentation for me rather than same old juice day after day. I really don't put consistency from batch to batch high up on my needs. I don't sell it so I don't need to worry. If I did run a juice company I would have it manufactured.

3 points
 
by simletover 10 years ago

I second that. Weight is so much easier and I can never go back to volume

1 points
 
by sthprk33over 10 years ago

The only reason I can imagine that they prefer it is because he/she has admittedly not tried using a scale yet.

9 points
 
by aelweroover 10 years ago

I could mix up a batch safely, accurately, and confidently with one hand...

Scales and squirt bottles are like the cheat codes of the diy liquid game...

Syringes are the same game, but dude... one hand... Ask anyone with squirt bottles ;) god mode...

2 points
 
by stnrlgcover 10 years ago

forgive me but you seem quite focused on this "one hand" method. For what pray tell might you be needing the other hand free?

1 points
 
by Ternopilover 10 years ago

If I ever lose a hand, I'll buy a scale ;)

7 points
 
by craicladover 10 years ago

I used to think the same as you, but as soon as I bought a somewhat accurate scale I could never see myself going back. The biggest issue for me was the cleanup after a mixing session. Now that I have all of my flavours in dropper bottles, as well as my nicotine and VG/PG, I literally don't need to clean up a single thing once I finish. I just pop my empty bottle on the scale, and squeeze everything out in the right amounts.

When I mixed by volume a single 10ml bottle would require me to clean 5+ syringes every single time, and that was a major pain in the ass.

2 points
 
by squiredover 10 years agoMixologist

Fuck, I remember that. I even used distilled water to clean the syringes! :P

My partner also constantly got on my case for the array of concentrated smells everywhere. In the sink, in the trashcan, on the carpet, on my hands. :/

Switching from volume to weight for her was similar to banning RDAs in the bed or on the couch. Volume mixing is even messier than dripping atomizers, even when done well.

2 points
 
by flipwichover 10 years ago

I buy 1ml syringes in bulk, so I have a ton, brand-new in their protective plastic. All of my flavors have an associated 1ml syringe rubber-banded with the bottle. The only clean-up I do is to wipe the tips of the syringes (they do not have needle-tips, just the bare syringe) with a Kimwipe and re-attach to the flavor bottle. Am I doing something wrong?

2 points
 
by craicladover 10 years ago

>Am I doing something wrong?

Not at all! If it works for you, it works for you. I'm just saying that my mixing experience was vastly improved by switching to weight. But if volume works for you, then just keep on keeping on.

1 points
 
by flipwichover 10 years ago

Hehe, I was actually worried that keeping the plunger for the syringe constantly in contact with concentrated flavors would be bad... I haven't actually noticed any rubber or plastic taste in any liquids, so, from that un-scientific analysis, should be all good!

I am waiting for my scale which the sidebar (/u/botboy141) recommends. Ordered it a few days ago and it's on the way.

So, when mixing with weight, do we just use new pipettes each time we mix? One new pipette for each flavor? Pipettes are cheap, but I'm thinking of using my current method of rubber-banding a syringe with each flavor and using those syringes to insert flavors into the weight mix. Are pipettes better for weight mixing for reasons that I might not be aware of?

Thanks for any info!!

6 points
 
by shotbyghandiover 10 years ago

I like to measure by weight mainly because many of my recipes have components that are a fraction of a milliliter and would be hard to measure with most GCs and syringes. That being said, I am a vendor so consistency is important. If I was making flavors for myself, either method would be fine for me.

1 points
 
by prettymatthewover 10 years agoTobacconist

How big are your batches? We talking 1 liter batches, or 1 gallon batches?

1 points
 
by shotbyghandiover 10 years ago

Less than two liters

1 points
 
by stnrlgcover 10 years ago

I find this claim to be quite dubious in nature. In 2 liters I cannot imagine what cmpd you would be utilizing in fractional ML quants (uranium?). Is this a flavor base or an RTV solution? Either way, if this is in fact a true need then serial dilution or micropipetting would get the job done as consistently.

6 points
 
by MNVapesover 10 years ago

A scale offers you repeatability to a degree that simply isn't possible with graduated cylinders or syringes.

As far as inconsistencies in measurements go... If your scale is accurate enough to be affected by drafts you should be using a draft shield and be getting regular calibrations anyways.

I mean they make scales for under $500 that are so accurate that you have to program where in the world you're located so it can compensate for variations in gravity itself...

Can your eyeballs compensate for varying gravity? How about thermal expansion?

I'm sure 100ml of just about anything at 20°c doesn't have the exact same volume at 25°c.

If you think a GC is more accurate than a scale I suggest you try pantone color matching ink or paint without a scale sometime.

-1 points
 
by Ternopilover 10 years ago

I don't see how a scale gives you better "repeatability" as both methods are affected by human error and have the same level of precision.

Under $500? Most people here are DIYing for personal use, and want to do it without having to sell a kidney. That's an absurd amount of money to spend on something that will offer you little to no benefits.

Gravity is not a force that holds liquid together, therefore variations in gravity do not affect volume but DO affect weight reading on a scale ("weight" is directly related to gravity). Also, changing temperature of a liquid changes its DENSITY (mass/volume), so both weight and volume methods are affected. All in all, these changes are extremely minuscule and absolutely negligible, especially if you take into account the differences that human error produces which are much greater and still completely negligible.

5 points
 
by JohnLaCuentaover 10 years ago

>Also, changing temperature of a liquid changes its DENSITY (mass/volume), so both weight and volume are affected.

No, only volume is affected by temperature. 1g is always the same amount of flavoring but 1mL is not depending on temperature. But I agree that it is negligible for mixing juice.

-4 points
 
by Ternopilover 10 years ago

Changing temperature affects the density of a liquid. You're right that MASS always stays the same, but the required WEIGHT measured on a scale changes (unless you take into account the change in density of flavouring in your calculations, which no one ever does). But at the end of the day it really doesn't matter, the point I was trying to get across is that none of the methods are perfect and that's OK because "perfection" is not required.

3 points
 
by MNVapesover 10 years ago

I'm not trying to be a jerk but I'm pretty sure I learned temperature does not directly affect mass in the 6th or 7th grade.

I'm surprised no one in this thread has bothered to mention the inconsistency caused by varying viscosity of different liquids and their propensity to cling to the inner surface of measuring instruments.

-2 points
 
by Ternopilover 10 years ago

No worries at all. You are right in that temperature does not affect mass, and I never said it did. Temperature affects density, which changes the amount of weight of a certain flavour (or base) that you need to add to your batch. This is the example that I gave in another reply:

> For example, VG has a density of 1.26 g/ml at a certain temperature, lets say 25C. At 30C, the density of VG is different, lets say 1.20 g/ml (these are not the actual numbers, just an example). So if you want to make a 10 mL 50/50 PG/VG batch you would need to add 6.3 grams of VG if its at 25C, and 6.0 grams of VG if its at 30C. Once again, in reality the differences density due to temperature are not that big and its not necessary to take them into account, hence why nobody takes the temperature of their VG before mixing by weight.

6 points
 
by iamgr3mover 10 years ago

We use scales for the same reason that bakers do. It's more accurate now matter how you try to spin it.

Edit: a word

1 points
 
by stnrlgcover 10 years ago

Exactly how many ingredients utilized in a typical bakery setting would you say could be sucked into a syringe? There might be some formal logic errors in your scale defense. Perhaps bakers utilize scales not because of an intrinsic superior accuracy but rather a superior practicality.

1 points
 
by iamgr3mover 10 years ago

They only difference is they use more dry ingredients than we do. With oil, water, milk, or flavorings they would just pour or measure and pour like we do. With dry ingredients they pour. It's faster and more accurate than trying to weigh out multiple bags of flour in cup increments.

1 points
 
by prototrdabout 10 years agoProud Sidebar Reader!

Because flour and other dry goods can easily be compressed making volume a poor metric for dry goods.

5 points
 
by nameBrandonover 10 years ago

>Learning how to read a meniscus is cake, especially when compared to all the extra calculations you have to do to mix accurately by weight (most people don't even take into account that different flavours have different densities, which further reduces the accuracy of measurement if you really want to get religious about it).

Any reputable flavor provider will provide MSDS sheets, from which one can obtain the SG value. I imagine most decent calculators allow for flavor weights and mixing by weight, I know the one I use do does. So there are no additional calculations at all, unless one simply wants to do them.

1 points
 
by prawnhornsover 10 years ago

That isn't entirely true re msds sheets. TFA is an exemplary example of specific weight availability. Most other companies are not as forthcoming and are spotty at best.

3 points
 
by nameBrandonover 10 years ago

Caplleas, TFA, FlavorWest all publish MSDS. That's easily 60-70% of the flavor market right there. Many people have also weighed the flavors themselves and published lists.. Just one example, including a number of FlavourArt flavors.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-jG-HswhSM2VE1lNFhGRjluTjA/view

Anyway, the point was that incorporating the various densities of flavors is not a big deal.

1 points
 
by prawnhornsover 10 years ago

I stand corrected re specific weights :-) Thank you for providing the google drive link as well. :-D

1 points
 
by 50pg50vgover 10 years ago

This also has a good listing of densities. It helped me get the calculations right for a spreadsheet I use for mixing.

5 points
 
by smoakleyyyover 10 years agoMixologist

Mixing by weight is so much faster and far less messy and requires 0 cleanup as I mix directly into my bottle and use disposable pipettes for flavors that aren't in a dropper bottle.

And $20 for a scale was not a pricey investment for myself.

3 points
 
by elitegunslingerover 10 years ago

I've lost track of large batches before, however mixing by weight gets rid of a large margin or error and reduces my forgetting how much I've put in; I've done both and weight is more consistent.

2 points
 
by Ternopilover 10 years ago

I've had problems with this before when I had to make a 30 ml batch but all I had was 3 ml syringes. All is solved once you get a big enough syringe to measure each ingredient with one go.

1 points
 
by elitegunslingerover 10 years ago

Usually it happens when I'm doing 250ml+

3 points
 
by JohnLaCuentaover 10 years ago

You're downplaying tidiness but it's the biggest factor. Most flavorings come in dropper bottles, it's just a shame yours don't. Mixing directly into the bottle and not having anything to clean afterwards is simply awesome.

Relative density of flavorings is irrelevant, because 2% by weight will always be 2% by weight and 2% by volume will always be 2% by volume (not taking temperature into account since it's not a big factor for our purposes). It only matters when converting from one to the other, which is why I guess people should start specifying what kind of % they're using when they post a recipe. It's not really a problem with mixing by weight but a problem with the community being divided into two different methods unfortunately.

Also I work in a lab and we do have to weigh liquids sometimes :) Like to determine acid or iodine value in oils.

3 points
 
by Enyawreklawover 10 years agoMixologist

Mixing by weight is great for a number of uses though. If I'm testing flavors out, a bunch at a time, this is the fastest way to do it, and relatively accurate. Once I get a recipe I like, then I go ahead and measure it out and tweak by tiny percentages. Once you start tweaking a recipe in 5-10 different variations then you'll start to realize mixing by weight has its place.

3 points
 
by residentevolover 10 years ago

I sit down to pee. I just don't understand how you guys that stand up to do it find it better.

Precision - pee goes directly into the bowl while you stand uppers spray all over everything.

Ease of use - well sitting down requires zero hands to hold my junk so I'm left with two hands to type reddit replies on my phone

Tidyness...see description for precision.

/sarcasm

1 points
 
by gardvarover 10 years ago

Of cause you sit down to pee, anything else would be stupid. But which easy does your tp hang?

2 points
 
by downtideover 10 years agoFrugivore

I don't see myself as a chemist or a pro but I always measure by volume, not weight. A couple of syringes is all I need, it's easy, quick and makes minimal mess.

2 points
 
by FraizerBManilloover 10 years agoProud Sidebar Reader!

That's because in chemisty you agent mixing flavours, so .02 grams of liquid won't make a difference. Depending on how strong your flavouring is, it will in ejuice. Also syringes have to be replaced all the time because the numbers rub off on them, why buy expensive syringes that won't degrade when I can buy one scale for 20 dollars. Also, no cleaning cylinders.

3 points
 
by adamrehardover 10 years agoOne of "The Damned"

> Also syringes have to be replaced all the time because the numbers rub off on them

They're designed for medical uses 90% of the time, and are supposed to be single use. I taped over mine, and they're working beautifully.

1 points
 
by azsfcshover 10 years ago

Some flavors are a bit acidic and will eat away at the plastic and rubber in the syringes making them completely unusable.

2 points
 
by adamrehardover 10 years agoOne of "The Damned"

That's true. I wasn't saying they're perfect, but I suggested a way to use them a bit longer.

2 points
 
by drpeppertastegoodover 10 years ago

I'm definitely with you. I have a scale that I don't use because I trust my graduated cylinder and syringes that much. And the cylinder is perfect to mix in. And transfer is super easy into almost any size bottle I've used. And when I'm done all I have is a graduated cylinder, the syringes and tips to clean and I'm done.

2 points
 
by dolphinsarecuntsover 10 years ago

I premix my nicotine/pg/vg by volume in 100ml bottles and then when I need juice or feel like mixing I make up 10ml bottles by weight.

My taste buds aren't sophisticated enough to distinguish if I accidentally add an extra 0.05 ml of concentrate by mistake and its worth it for minimum clean up effort.

2 points
 
by redbeard1083over 10 years agoMixologist

my thoughts on mixing by weight:

  1. i'm not so sure if it's precision as much as it is consistency. but i digress, both are consistent. tie. the one downside to mixing by weight is figuring out the weight per ml. i figured out my nicotine, pg, vg and use the pg or vg values for my flavors depending on what they're suspended in, but that was a one time thing.
  2. reading a miniscus or reading a scale is both easy. tie.
  3. tidiness. here's where i disagree with you. simply putting every ingredient in a squeeze bottle (in my case, i buy the dropper caps for my wizard lab vials). with little effort, i'll never have to clean another syringe again. for me, this is a huge win of weight over volume.
  4. cost: my scale was like 25 bucks.
  5. speed. i can mix much faster by weight than i can by volume. i fucking hate sucking VG into a syringe. not to mention eventually the sygines get gunked up and become basically useless requiring semi-frequent replacement.

for me personally, i don't really enjoy making juice, but i do it because it's cheap and i can make whatever i want. having said that, i find weight to be a much less annoying experience due to the elimination of cleanup and speed at which i am now able to make it. YMMV.

2 points
 
by SeanMooreover 10 years ago

I don't think the pricey investment in graduated cylinders is justifiable. The recommended scale here costs a little bit more than a single pyrex 200ml graduated cylinder.

2 points
 
by thewomberchombyover 10 years agoProud Sidebar Reader!

I'm not the type that's trying to start up a juice company with my mixes. I do it because it's fun to experiment with flavors, and it's cheaper than store bought juice. I got a $15 scale that reads to .01g accuracy, and I mainly use that to mix my flavor bases together. For pg/vg/nic, I still use syringes. It's not the most professional thing in the world, but it gives me good enough accuracy for my palate and it's made the process of making juice more enjoyable for me. A scale is a great thing to have, even if you don't rely on it exclusively.

2 points
 
by SATEATover 10 years ago

its all personal opinion one way or the other either way good for you for vaping over smoking... That being said i mixed with syringes for over a year it works and yes its messy. I switched to mixing my weight because its very fast with very little cleanup. Anyone who says that it is just as messy as mixing with syringes hasn't tried it or is doing something wrong. Accuracy on the other hand.... Yes your right adding an extra drop there is no going back... So dont add an extra drop. Air movement does change the scale so turn off the fans and close the windows before starting. and to the "pricey investment" in buying a scale is subjective $30 may be pricey to some and not to others....

2 points
 
by CryptoVaperover 10 years ago

Syringes are too expensive to throw away so you have to clean them after every use whereas disposable pipettes are less than 2.5 cents each when purchased in bulk. My first attempt at DIY juice starts tomorrow when my flavorings arrive and I've chosen to mix by weight from the start. Wish me luck. ;-)

2 points
 
by rabidnzover 10 years ago

I find it really hard to obtain 500ml syringes...

2 points
 
by a2quikover 10 years ago

you have a background in chemistry yet you cant see the positives of mixing by weight? its so much easier there is no comparison to make. i can make a recipe in like ten seconds with vg and pg dropper bottles. u put your juice bottle on the scale, grab the pg pour it till amount is right, zero out scale, pour vg botle, zero out scale, drop flavoring in from out of the original container(if it has a dropper) and im done. put cap on and shake. no cleanup no dirty syringes, nothing. no waiting on vg to suction into the pipette. no waiting on vg to drip down the pipette so that your measurement is actually accurate (because it isnt when you are measuring something that viscous)

2 points
 
by Ternopilover 10 years ago

What happens if you accidentally add a bit more than required? Do you scoop it out ;) ?

1 points
 
by squiredover 10 years agoMixologist

It hasn't happened to me yet, outside of a couple drops, but I'd probably just chuck the lot. We're playing with pennies afterall; mistakes are cheap.

1 points
 
by prokreatover 10 years ago

You chuck a few drop mistake? Should make note of it and see if it wasn't a happy accident. Could tie the whole thing together man...

1 points
 
by SirTimmyTimbitover 10 years ago

The first 5-10 times I mixed by weight I went over often.

Now I almost instinctively know how much a drop weighs from different size pipettes. My scale also has a two seconds delay time to time and I'm used to that now too.

Nowadays whenever I'm over its usually by a drop, max two. That happens rarely, mainly when I'm trying to rush.

Disposable pipettes are god sent and I only need them for wizard labs bottles. Everything else comes in dropper bottles.

By the way how are you doing dude. Long time no talk!

2 points
 
by Ternopilover 10 years ago

I've been good man, same old. How's everything with you? I remember we briefly talked about mixing by weight vs volume before, I'm glad weight is working out for you. I texted you a while back, not sure if you got it because your phone was acting up before.

0 points
 
by a2quikover 10 years ago

doesnt happen too often cause im pretty careful but when im careless or with equipment malfunctions it only gets up to .1 off which is like 3 drops so it wouldnt make much of a difference at all, but i add extra of the other stuff in the same ratio as the recipe roughly or just dont worry about it lol

2 points
 
by ___on___on___over 10 years ago

Late question: how many syringes do you use mixing by volume? That was one of the main reasons I switched to dropper tops and pipettes.

1 points
 
by prototrdabout 10 years agoProud Sidebar Reader!

yeah. Pippetes are less than 7 cents a piece retail and they are graduated to the tenth of a mL. Talk about easy cleanup!

2 points
 
by SnarfMcSnarfSnarfover 10 years ago

Also have a background in chem and worked in a wet lab for many years. Only ever weighed drys, always used volume measurements for liquids. Not having to convert volume to mass saves that extra potential fuck up down the road as well. Meh? lol

2 points
 
by Steegzqtover 10 years ago

i mix by volume and it works just fine; havent felt the need to mix by weight, seems appealing but its far too late for that for me at this point in time.. mixing by volume seems to be just fine for larger batches i have graduated cyliners, i have beakers that i use as well etc. ive just gotten used to it. i can see weight being better for super small batches tho as drsnakensteinmd said.. 7ml batch with .5% sure that would be a pain in the but to measure.

2 points
 
by DavefromMassover 10 years ago

+1 for logic and reason. Loved this post. Personally I'd rather spend the time washing my volumetric tools as opposed to doing math all night.

1 points
 
by onions_can_be_sweetover 10 years agoMixologist

Totally agree. I mix by volume, in a syringe. All of my ingredients are in dropper bottles. Cleanup involves just cleaning that one syringe.

Fast, efficient, accurate enough (more accurate than my sense of taste/smell anyway).

My favourite mixes can be done in less than a minute.

I don't want to pretend I'm running a chemistry lab, and I certainly don't need the extra expense/mess that a bunch of needles (don't need 'em) or pipettes (never bought 'em) or an expensive scale.

Edit: In case anyone cares, my method: Remove plunger, plug syringe, upend syringe, add VG (measuring with the recieving syringe all ingredients), add nic base, add flavourings, top with PG, put in plunger, upend, wait a sec for air bubble to come up to tip, unplug (if any spillage it's just VG), cover tip with finger, shake well, plunge into bottle for dripping. I do this with a 10ml syringe for small mixes, 60ml syringe for large ones.

1 points
 
by slider162over 10 years ago

I tried mixing by weight once. I was making test batches of 10ml bottles. Miserable failure. I have a pretty nice scale, but it still isn't sensitive or accurate enough for 10ml batches. I still mix by volume, even when making 250ml batches.

3 points
 
by FraizerBManilloover 10 years agoProud Sidebar Reader!

That is operator error, all my 10ml taste the same as the 60 ml and 120 ml batches I make

-1 points
 
by prawnhornsover 10 years ago

The post clearly says that the scale was not accurate enough...not exactly operator error....

5 points
 
by FraizerBManilloover 10 years agoProud Sidebar Reader!

Yeah it is, operator chose to use an innacurate scale. That's like saying, I used this scope on my gun, but I didn't zero it, so it was very inaccurate, so using a scope is inaccurate.

1 points
 
by senrakuover 10 years ago

Agreed. Also, mixing juice really isn't the rocket surgery people try to turn it into.

Get these liquids, put them into the same bottle, shake it and wait. It's easy. Why overcomplicate it?

1 points
 
by TrueVaperover 10 years ago

This is intended to be a pragmatic response. As long as you mix eliquids safely and stay away from the stinkies all is good with the world, however you do it. I now mix by weight with a Jennings TB500 scale (0.01g resolution) and use http://e-liquid-recipes.com/ with my preferences set to grams. Working storage of Nic, PG and VG is in labelled Lock & Lock HPL931D round containers each with a dedicated labelled syringe. I mix in borosilicate beakers 20-250ml. I also use a magnetic stirrer The cost of the scale was £70 ($100) I save about £7 ($10) per 30ml of juice This setup is better than 99.97% accurate with 100ml mixes and better than 99.99% with 300ml mixes I have just made 4 different juices 150ml of each bottled in 50ml LDPE bottles. The saving on this mix alone is at least £140 ($200) In conclusion, I am delighted with my switch from volume mixing to digital mixing by weight

1 points
 
by CryptoVaperover 10 years ago

Speaking of tidiness, which flavor companies, and/or more specifically, which retailers sell flavors in dropper bottles, and at what sizes? I know that Flavorah does in 15ml sizes. Who else?

1 points
 
by rlaitinenover 10 years ago

I know Bull City Vapors does.

1 points
 
by CryptoVaperover 10 years ago

Does that apply to all the brands they sell and all size options?

1 points
 
by rlaitinenover 10 years ago

I have bought Cap, TFA, INW, FW, and FA there in the ~10ml sizes and all came in dropper bottles.

1 points
 
by loveableterrorover 10 years ago

I make juice commercially now and started out as DIY. I have mixed by weight and gave it up. Mixing by volume is much easier in larger amounts IMHO. I still use syringes to measure my percentage amounts. It just feels more precise to me

1 points
 
by gardvarover 10 years ago

Hi, so im not trying to bash or root for any party here. I've always been mixing by weight. I'm curious how you get all the juice our of a measuring cylinder? it seems to me that vg kinda sticks to things (a bit like syrup) if the vg settles on the bottom when you mix and then clings to the inside walls, wont that give you faulty proportions/be a real hassle to get out?

[Edit for clarification] in taking when you mix by volume. I've seen several videos where people measure all their stuff in a cylinder

2 points
 
by squiredover 10 years agoMixologist

Yeah, but it isn't a huge deal. If you're anal, you'll move that vessel directly to a stir plate before pouring so it is homogenous when you transfer the solution.

-former volume guy loving weight.

1 points
 
by Ternopilover 10 years ago

I'm not sure if you're talking about mixing by weight or by volume. When you mix by weight, you can add it straight to the bottle. When you mix by volume, you don't necessarily need a measuring cylinder, you can use syringes.

1 points
 
by sthprk33over 10 years ago

I couldn't care less about the accuracy aspect (honestly, for what we're making, both methods are plenty accurate), but having tried both, the convenience and tidiness of mixing by weight definitely outweighs mixing by volume.

1 points
 
by rakeleerover 10 years agoOne of "The Damned"

Wait... where can you buy a magnetic stirrer complete for $30???!

1 points
 
by gardvarover 10 years ago

A lot of people just buy the magnet and build the rest out of an old machine fan. If you aren't picky you could get away dirt cheap

1 points
 
by rakeleerover 10 years agoOne of "The Damned"

Oh yeah, I've been toying with the idea (don't need to buy any magnets, since I own a bunch of dead hard drives) of making my own - but the premise of the OP was choosing between a magnetic stirrer or a scale. My scale (AC adapter, no auto-office, hundredths of grams, 500g limit) cost me $30 so was wondering how this was a choice. :)

1 points
 
by theVoksterover 10 years ago

I guess you don't have that much lab experience

1 points
 
by dgpro5000over 10 years ago

Yea your dumb. If you think volume is more accurate than weight. Carry on.

0 points
 
by theBigDaddioover 10 years agoMixologist

This is standard internet crap. All those "you're doing it wrong" loudmouths. I could care if anyone else does it however they do. But FFS quit trying to proselytize and convert the world to your religion. That's the problem.

1 points
 
by prokreatover 10 years ago

I hate it when reason is downvoted... So you get my up vote.

0 points
 
by dshillsover 10 years ago

A lot of great points so I won't cover any of those. I am curious about the chemistry comment. I also have a degree in chemistry. Probably the first thing freshman quant taught was about precision and using weight over volume whenever possible. Can you be accurate with volume, sure. High precision electronic pipetting systems are very accurate and are often as accurate as a precision scale. The big difference is price. A two decimal precision scale is $50...

Funny thing about accuracy, the DIY needs it more than the high production shops! 1 drop in a 55 gal drum makes no difference. 1 drop of a 10ml batch can make a noticeable difference.

-2 points
 
by BonRenningtonover 10 years ago

So?

-10 points
 
by raskolnikov206over 10 years agoPâtissier

As with anything theres always those ppl that take to a new hobby or habit strongly. All these ultrasonic mixers and scales and lab equipment is the obsession and compulsion leaking through. It'll never be enough equipment or flavors for these types because they're not really making ejuice to quit smoking, they're trying to fill voids in their life

1 points
 
by ShadowWalker590over 10 years ago

I quit smoking through vaping and have enjoyed every minute of it. I have few hobbies, and those I do have I enjoy (obviously) and tend to get very in to. Vaping started, for me, as a means to quit smoking and chewing, and it worked from day 1 for me and my girlfriend. Not only did we quit smoking, but we have met some great people (online and in person), and have helped other people quit. The argument over weight and volume comes down to preference, but blanket statements like that are just ignorant.

Oh, and I mix by weight now. Must be some void in my life I am filling.

-5 points
 
by raskolnikov206over 10 years agoPâtissier

That's exactly what I was talking about. This is way more to you than just vaping or mixing up ejuice. You're doing something else completely; using it to meet people, to feel a part of something, I don't know and don't care. The point was directed at the OP, and it was to just ignore the people like you who take this so seriously and do what he likes best. I mean just the fact that you felt slighted and you had to jump in here and share your life story and defend mixing by weight is pretty funny and tells a lot about you

1 points
 
by ShadowWalker590over 10 years ago

Did I not say that it comes down to preference? I use to measure by volume and did fine. Doing it by weight just works better for the way that I make. I don't care how you make it to be honest, because I'm not vaping it.

Saying "they're not really making juice to quit smoking (who cares whether they are or not in the end?) and filling voids in their life" is a pretty broad brush to paint with. I'm sure there are some people who never leave their mom's basement and just make e juice all day and all night because they have nothing else to do. I don't think making juice by weight is a qualifier for that though.

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