PEG400 could be a viable source of a heavier PG solution similar to VG that still has the increased flavor carrying characteristics could it not?
I'm far from a chemist, but reading up peg400 its just modified PG that could possibly suspend flavoring better then PG and VG. With the added benefit of less steeping time, as PG flavorings won't need the time to dissolve into vg.
I haven't tested this yet, but i'd love to hear if anyone here has, and if i'm even on the right track here. I may order some to try it out though.
edit: To clarify for those who may not know the full name it's polyethylene glycol 400
PEG400 was all talked about a lot a couple of years or three ago, but then it died out and everybody stopped using it. I'm sure there was a reason for that - I can't seem to find out what though. I am happy with PG and VG though ;)
I know that other industries like make-up and cosmetics manufaturers generally try to avoid PEG anything.
I think one of the main reasons being that 786 mg/kg of PEG will be lethal. While not likely to reach these levels by vaping. I'm not sure what the half life of PEG is in the body, but it might be possible if you had an all day vape that contained PEG for it to build up in your body and be lethal... But I'm really not sure what the half life of PEG is.
"When ingested (swallowed, not inhaled) PEG is metabolised first into glycolic acid, then into oxalic acid… which is dangerous. This danger is present in PEG, but as stated above, not enough to cause harm when vaporized." http://ejuiceconnoisseur.com/2013/10/21/the-final-word-on-propylene-glycol-vs-polyethylene-glycol/
Part of the problem with PEG, unlike PG, is that it is harmful (and could be lethal) if ingested orally. Like eating or drinking a bottle of e-juice. While most of us are smart enough to not chug bottles of e-juice, there are always some special snowflakes out there (as well as children and pets). Someone like a small child could drink it, and the child being small enough, could potentially make them really sick, or kill them. I think that one of the main reasons juice makers actively avoid using PEG is for liability reasons.
PEG also has a higher flash point than PG, meaning that PG will vaporize before PEG will vaporize. So if you had a juice with both PG and PEG.... The PG could be vaporizing when you take a drag, but you might just be inhaling little speckles of the PEG. If you do believe that PEG is safe to vape (I wouldn't willingly vape anything with PEG in it personally) I would at the minimum with the info given, make sure your mod always fires hot enough to vaporize the PEG.
Coils don't heat up to full temp instantly, although we like to make our mods try to as much as possible. Meaning that there will always be a point where other things like PG will be vaporized while the PEG is not... Because of this I don't really think its ever really a good idea to be using PEG.
PEG or Polyethylene Glycol is also perscribed in powdered form as a laxative under the names Miralax and GoLytely (not to be used more than 7 days which makes me question what the half life is). "Polyethylene glycol is an osmotic laxative. Polyethylene glycol works by retaining water in the stool, resulting in softer stools and more frequent bowel movements. Polyethylene glycol does not affect glucose and electrolytes in the body."http://www.medicinenet.com/polyethylene_glycol_peg_3350-oral/article.htm
This means that using PEG will make your poops softer and more frequent.
PEG also comes in different molecular weights I've seen people using PEG400 but not sure how the other weights compare.
tldr: PEG is supposed to be safe to inhale when fully vaporized, supposed to not be safe or lethal if ingested orally. PEG has higher flashpoint than PG, meaning that it won't ever really be fully vaporized as it takes coil in your atty time to heat up. PEG is also used as a laxative. ..... It's probably okay, but not ideal for use in vapes. PG and VG are still better alternatives.
The Polish study that looked for particulates in vapor found that the PEG400 sample they tested was pretty clean compared to the PG samples. They concluded that PEG400 might be safer to vape due to its higher boiling point (which means we are less likely to overheat it compared to PG).
Quote:
> "We also showed that levels of carbonyl compounds in EC > vapors are strongly affected by product characteristics, like type > of nicotine solvent and battery voltage. In general, the highest > levels of carbonyls were observed in vapors generated from > PG-based solutions. This finding suggests that PG in ECs is > more susceptible to thermal decomposition than VG. The presence > of carbonyls in flavor-free control solutions indicates that > the primary sources of these toxicants are nicotine solvents. An > interesting finding of our study is that no toxic carbonyls were > detected in a single sample with reduced content of VG and > PG. In this product (A6), the primary solvent was polyethylene > glycol (PEG). It would suggest that PEG-based e-liquids might > have reduced toxicity from decomposition products. Further > research should explore this hypothesis."
How did you find out about this? Is it readily available like PG?
I'm pretty sure /u/abdada had been messing with it some. Maybe he can chime in on the subject.
It is an alternative for PG but I don't like it for a variety of reasons:
- More throat hit than PG
- Thicker than PG but no vapor like VG offers
- Equal toxicity risks to PG
The stuff I've been playing with is 13P -- 1,3-Propanediol. Lower health risk than PG, very slippery stuff, great flavor carrier. It is expensive as heck tho ($110 per liter).
I've used EJMix for non eliquid reasons, and it contains several of the PEG's. It does mix up and hold a suspension nice, but it has a bit of a harsh, plasticy taste. I probably wouldn't use it for my eliquid for that reason.
I'd be much more interested in 1,3-propanediol. It's like a modified form of PG, chemically, with seemingly better properties for vaping and it's already been adopted for use by at least one 'PG-free' vape juice company in the EU.
abdada chimed in about 1,3-propanediol above in this post.