So, I have this juice that I get from a local b&m and i've been trying to clone for a while. I finally figure out one of the main ingredients and it seems like I'm tasting the juice differently now that I know one of the ingredients are. Anyone experience anything like this?
I call it the "Bologna Sandwich Syndrome"
Have your significant other make you a Bologna sandwich, it tastes great. Take the same ingredients and make yourself the same sandwich, just doesn't taste as good.
What's the PG/VG in that? Mmmmmm bologna flavor
Now if we could come up with either a BLT flavor or even a Philly Cheesesteak flavor, we'd be millionaires.....lol
Always.
When I blend flavors, I never tell friends what flavor the final product is supposed to be -- I ask them to guess. This helps me understand better how aroma molecules combine to make completely different flavors.
Once I know what is in an eliquid, it is very hard for me to NOT taste those flavors -- but other people don't have the ingredients list, so they taste something different (sometimes completely different).
This is a way for professionals to create more difficult to clone eliquids, for sure.
Remember: even 100% natural flavors may not come from the item they taste like. Raspberry and vanilla natural flavoring may come from beaver anus (look it up) -- or they may come from other fruits or plants that happen to share an aroma molecule with the original flavor.
When you combine these molecules together, you can get shockingly different flavors out of it. it's how our brain works (to protect us from poisons in nature) -- rewarding us with the sensation of flavor in order to get us to consume non-toxic plants and fruits and nuts.
I read recently that the beaver glans thing was over hyped. That the i grdient is so expensive that only perfumes like chanal No. 5 actuslly include it.
It is definitely overhyped but it is definitely also used in not just premium items.
The reality is that natural flavors are extracted from anuses and other things -- so "natural" is a ruse that shouldn't be easily believed.
"Organic natural" is a bit better, but even that can be not the actual product labeled.
I had an interesting experience the other day along these lines. I have a hazelnut RY4 that's turned into my ADV, and I was starting to pick up a "peanut butter" note I wasn't sure I liked. I took it in to a mix to order B&M and had a few people blind taste it. To my surprise, everyone commented on the tobacco absolute I use, which I thought was a bottom note. Where I taste "Vanilla/Hazelnut/Caramel/Tobacco," they were tasting "Tobacco/Vanilla/Something nutty."
I was thinking of raising the TA a bit, before this, but now I think I'll just lower the AP.
AP = 2-acetylpyrazina or acetyl propionyl?
When people say "taste is subjective" they also mean "discerning aroma molecules is subjective." I know that coffee throws my taste buds way off -- as did smoking 3PAD.
I have an issue with tasting banana if there is any cream in the mix.
Acetyl Pyrazine. I started with the standard "Tribeca" clone, lowered the TFA RY4D and AP, and enhanced with vanillin, e. vanillin, TFA Caramel Candy, TFA Hazelnut, and NN TA.
I've never had Tribeca, but the RY4's I've made following that basic scheme have been delicious. I think the Hazelnut might have AP in it, or something similar, and it's pushing the "nutty" note higher than I like.
Great description. To help combat this, I've started all my flavor research over. I'll make 5 bottles of a single flavor at varying percentages. In my log, I give the flavor a random alphanumerical assignment, then use that number on the bottle. I do 5 different flavors at a time. So we're talking 25 bottles at once.
First tasting, 3 days, second tasting 7 days, last tasting 14 days. It's a two week process, but I keep notes on the alphanumeric bottle number. When it's all said and done I go back and match up the flavors and percentages.
Yep -- the more patient you are with DIY, the better your output.
The problem is that 80% of Westerners can't even be bothered to stand up to turn off the TV when they lose the remote control, so how do you expect them to make 10x 5ml bottles and wait up to a month to find a perfect blend?
Instead they'll throw 40% of flavor into a bottle and shake it and come here and complain that it tastes like prisoner's taint.
Because is 10% is good, 40% is better, of course.
I'm curious of how many beaver anuses have been slayed in order to receive my 4oz bottle of Cap Vanilla Custard?
I hope that's a ... nutty ... vanilla.
Define "differently."
That's the only way I can describe it. It just doesn't taste the same as before I was able to figure it out. It's like I'm perceiving the taste in a different way or something. Perhaps I shouldn't have looked behind the curtain :\
Ok, I wonder if it's due to humans having close to 100% smell recall. Since we know if we've smelled something before it means naming a component of it may have changed the specific brain recall neurons to two different parts of your brain (smell and category) and you pick up on the one flavor you found more prominently. It's a good question. Maybe hit up some science/flavor science subreddits.
Being conscious of the flavorings used definitely affects my perception of them, often in a negative way, as when "nutty" turns into "toasted almond," and suddenly seems jarring.
Watching the local B&M employees get uncomfortable when I call out the top notes by manufacturer makes up for it, though (I'm not a tasting genius, I just have a lot of the same TFA flavors.)