Hello again all.
This will be my final post on this subject.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6WHSbEQ1mQM
In this video, I attempt to show that mixing and shaking has zero to do with this issue, despite /u/NudeNicotine's claims, any the claims of anyone saying as much in my last two threads.
TL;DW if you don't want to watch the video, it's mostly there so people can see I'm not making this shit up.
>Test 1 10.9ml HCl = 10.9*16.223 = 176.83
>Test 2 12.5ml HCl = 12.5*16.223 = 202.78
>Test 3 11.6ml HCl = 11.6*16.223 = 188.18
I'm not out to get anyone here, I'm not out to promote anyone here, I just feel this is very, very dangerous, and as someone said in one of the previous threads, this is just the sort of thing regulators will look at and slam down on us unless we self regulate. Nude needs to figure out what the hell went wrong with my order, as well as the orders of others who have reported much harsher/stronger tasting nic in and stop saying that because it is "cleaner" and "fresher" it has more "bite".
Here is a spreadsheet /u/Vaganusaurus put together of reports from customers, if you have any information to add please let them know: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1B2fQQliVu9kNRrIUmwXw5_cu2QjsKpfUQ-bmAmzFr44/edit#gid=0
On a personal note, /u/NudeNicotine said of me:
>No reason to be skeptical - that customer did not shake their aliquot correctly and in 100% VG, nitocine loves to settle @ the top. No need to fret! Just be an informed consumer and all is well.
Not only did I not do something I was not instructed to do by the company whose product I purchased, I am also uninformed. I would like an apology, and I would like a refund for the bottle that has not been replaced.
On a positive note, the replacement bottle of nic I got from nude has tested clean and tastes great in my recent mixes.
As a lesson to us all, buy the chemicals necessary to titrate (local pool supply has them) and always test your new nicotine.
Even if you buy it premixed at 6mg, test it. There is no excuse to not confirm that you are getting what you ordered, and titration is a good talent to have.
If you sell eliquid, titrate random mixes also to make sure what you are selling is within spec of what you're advertising.
Self regulation is better than any government forced standards.
great advice, I've already planned on doing this from now on, as there is no reason not to but tons of reasons to do it. I've learned the hard way you can't trust the source just by the spec sheet they give you
Have you tested the harsh bottle you received? I saw the 'Ultra Strong' comment, but was hoping for a quantitative answer.
not yet, I have the supplies on the way to me, but they have been in lingo for a few days. USPS is fucked at the moment for some reason. I will report my results once I've done the testing myself. I sent some to NN but still haven't heard back from them yet. I'm sure they've tested it already, as it was delivered several days ago. I am going to try calling again tomorrow and hope they answer the phone, unlike the past several times I tried calling
Titrating finished mixes is inacurate because of the flavorings.
He is referring to testing unflavored nicotine base, not finished juice.
> Self regulation is better than any government forced standards.
I have a question that might be slightly off topic, but OP and you got me wondering... You say that people should self-regulate to avoid evil-babysitter big government, but what if a bunch of vapers, store owners, juice makers, device makers, vaping innovators and enthusiasts banded together and made some form of proposal that, y'know, makes sense from a vapers point of view and proposed that to an organization which job it is to maintain those kinds of things, like you know, a government body? That way, we get our way in a way that makes sense, and when somebody points a finger and says those guys are jerks, let's regulate them to death it won't really be an option because you'll just say "well it's already regulated". Why wait for bad people to do bad stuff?
Because voluntary adherence to standards is responsible and flexible. Forcing arbitrary regulation that is ultimately backed by violence is counterproductive, ripe for abuse, and inherently evil.
As a company, not following best practices will generally cost you business. Not following/ manipulating gov regulations? More profit. Perverse incentives.
> Forcing arbitrary regulation that is ultimately backed by violence is counterproductive, ripe for abuse, and inherently evil.
Yeah, what were the regulators thinking when they forcibly removed lead from gasoline, from paint and childrens toys. What were they thinking in enforcing water standards and meat inspection. What in the world were they trying to sneak past us when they regulated child labor and a standard work week?
Man, those evil bastards.
Would you rather those things be "voluntarily" regulated? Like they are in, oh, I don't know, Somalia and Liberia?
Not following government regulations does not mean more profit, it just means you gonna get caught not following the standards put up by the people. Self-regulation means I can do whatever the fuck I want and nobody will ever have the responsibility to check if I'm putting dead babies into my nicotine product. Again, I'm pretty sure that you live in a warped world where evil men have taken a useful tool and ruined it for their purpose but in other parts of the world people have a chance to set up regulations in a way that matter and make sense to their businesses....
Case in point : net neutrality
Because the people doing the worst stuff are the regulators.
I know, I pay lobbyists already to do bad things to others. And I make more money because of it.
And when the FDA regulates you, I will pay lobbyists more money so that I am freer than you are.
Good luck with the voting thing. I'll likely spend more time in paradise because of it (I'm writing this from my 3rd cruise of 2015, btw).
The regulators? Ie the people who are responsible to go up to nude nicotine say once or twice a year and asking them "Have you been following the procedures put up by yourself and the people who vape to ensure your product is up to spec?" What do they do? Eat your dogs balls for lunch and fine you for putting out a good product?
Would you pay the FDA extra money to avoid checking every 100 or 1000 or 10000 liters of product just so you can look at 50 year olds in bikinis on your 20 cruises a year?
I can't stress this enough. Really people, if you want to DIY you should test your nic when you receive it and after you have diluted it into your juice. At the company I work for, we titrate our 99% nic, then once we've diluted it down to 100mg we titrate that again. And then after we mix our base nic level blends we do another nic test. We produce close to 10k bottles a day and I still grab 10 or so bottles to spot test nic level.
Anyone who is shitting on OP hasn't been around long enough to know who he is, he is one of the if not the most active member on this sub bringing in very insightful information and knows his shit.
He is also remarkably helpful to everyone on this sub and posts some extremely insightful and honest reviews I personally trust, good on you bro and keep up the good work.
thank you for making this video making us all aware of the issue with NN. I don't personally order from them anyway because of the border risk but its good to know who to avoid.
Thanks for doing this Jay. Maybe this qualifies as being an "informed consumer"??
damn, this is a bummer PR wise for them I would imagine. I just got into DIY and got my first batch from Nude - love the nicotine. It sounds like someone mixed an already mixed nicotine batch with another batch of nicotine - better to own up to it at this point and send out a disclaimer.
So last night my inner ear infection seemed under control so i broke out my bottle of nic. I shook it for ten minutes, after bringing it to room temp, then had the wife shake it for ten minutes more. I mixed up a shake and vape @3mg, we only drip. I made two bottles, one with nic and one without. I also added a bottle of pure VG to sample. From the first pull i could feel the tightness in my chest and by the second pull i was coughing. The wife started to complain of being light headed/dizzy. We then moved on to the no nic solutions and vaped them without issue. I mixed another bottle at 3mg, just to be sure i didnt fuck up the first. Same deal.
At this point i called over my one of my neighbors, who i got into DIY. He couldnt even drip it without cough farting. So at this point i grabbed a 4oz bottle of the shake and vape that i had made several months ago. We all vaped it without issue.
I put everything in the freezer to await a test kit but i am certain that this batch is way off. I have been vaping for several years and mixing for well over a year now. I havent had this issue before. I dont need a test kit to tell me there is too much nic but i do need it to tell me how much so i can adjust it.
The worst part of this is how many people decide to shit on OP without even reading the fucking posts. I love NN, their product is usually spot on and i have defending them in the past. But i trust OP, he has been a very active and upstanding member of our community, he isnt just some d00d on teh interwebz..
This whole situation saddens me as i have no idea where to go from here but i do know i will make my purchases elsewhere.
I've appreciated your support this whole time, and I thank you for your diligence in your own testing. If you need something to mix with now, I'll pull a couple 30mls off the good bottle I have and 2 day it to you, just say the word.
Much appreciated but i have nic to last for at least 3 years. This bottle wasnt to be used for quite some time. Fortunately, and unfortunately, this issue had arisen or i would be extremely confused when the time came to use it. I purchased this bottle to show support during the last time people had issue with NN's customer service, it wasnt needed at all. I also have appx 1 gallon of assorted liquids mixed, half of them ready to vape now.
Like i said in an earlier post, this should be a wake up call to everyone, test your nic before using it. A little redundancy cant hurt.
Thank you for all you do for our community!
So the numbers in the last column, 176, 202 and 188 are the estimated strength in mg per ml? Assuming they were supposed to be 100? I just feel like 176 to 202 is a pretty big difference, we are talking more than 10%. Obviously it looks like they are higher than they should be, but I'd like to see more accurate testing done to get some more precise figures.
I always thought all the paperwork with their test numbers on it was a good thing, but I guess if its not accurate then its more a false sense of security, so its worse than having no info at all. Of course that's all assuming that your results are correct.
Yes, but as I wrote in the description of the video:
>After watching the video, the higher score on test 2 is likely because I unconsciously cleared the needle on the syringe, adding maybe .2-.3ml - it was measured correctly, I thought I may have measured it to 1.5ml but the video shows 1.0ml. With such a large amount of nicotine in such a small amount of liquid, it's easy to move the needle with little mistakes like that. All that aside, if you average test 1 and test 3 you get 182mg/ml.
Also, in the video I tested the new batch they sent me and it was 105mg/ml. Granted, I may be off by maybe 5, maybe 10%, but that doesn't account for ~70mg difference on tests 1-3.
Yeah, just saying not being sure how much liquid you're measuring and then the part where you more track of what you're counting. Doesn't really help with the credibility.
That's why I made it a video... you can count for yourself how many times I dispensed into each sample, and I show the camera how much I drew into each syringe of nicotine. If that was off by .1ml (such as the amount that might be in a syringe needle purged by air), at 182mg concentration that's 18mg, which seems to account for the difference there. Honestly, it was an error, but hardly makes a difference, and i really don't think it hurts the credibility of the other two tests, or that test itself.
"The fumes from this are messin' me up"
takes a hit off vape
Probably my favorite part.
Yeah, i shook my head at that and considered adding an annotation to the video that said "so keep vaping, fuckhead..."
I'm feeling nic sick, maybe vaping will help!
I've got some issues with your method. I have said that /u/nudenicotine's reponse was arrogant thinking human error was impossible, but I was a bit skeptical of both sides because when these titrations were done, everybody has had a very high margin of error. After watching the video I can see why. I've got over a thousand hours of lab experience, and my experience tells me that titration can have the highest margin of error for people who are inexperienced with them.
I won't complain about a lot of the smaller things, (vaping in your environment, not using a clean environment) that can throw off the numbers a bit, but won't affect them drastically.
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You NEED to measure by mass. Measuring by volume just is not very accurate.
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You added APPROXIMATELY 20 mL DI. You can't add approximately anything in a titration, it is driven by concentration and you effectively eyeballed the concentration.
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You titrated in a low light environment. You need to have a bright lightsource directly over the mixture. and a white surface (which you do have) underneath.
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You titrated past the equilibrium point. You should have stopped around 18:15. It might have needed a drop or half drop from there. You had a drop of HCl on the side when you measured. You didn't underfill and use DI to wash the sides.
I can tell you just from the color that something is off with that batch, but having been a lab assistant for the AP chem class in my high school, I know that 80% margin of error for an inexperienced titrator is not unheard of. I've seen 80-120% MOE from the actual concentration held through 5 trials on more than 1 student's results.
I'm not saying you're wrong, I'm guessing that something is off on this batch just by the color, but this test would not make it through peer review in any scientific community. That discoloration could just be because of the lighting in that room. As such, I can give no more validity to your word than /u/nudenicotine's.
Erm, the amount of distilled water doesn't matter at all. It's the nicotine that's being titrated. He could add 10 or 50mL of distilled water, the result would be the same.
Also it's not true at all that he has to measure by mass. He's titrating a liquid. The unit of his end result is mg/mL, so of course he has to measure his sample by volume. If you were talking about the HCl and not the nicotine sample, then... I don't even.
I'm following these instructions, so bear that in mind: http://wizardlabs.us/index.php?route=product/product&product_id=243
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Okay, sure, but that can't account for a 4ml difference in HCl, across three tests, v.s. test number 4 on the good batch. It just can't. Also, this about the 20th titration test I've done over the past two weeks, and results are about the same across them all.
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I'll take your word for it, but the Wizardlabs kit I got says 15-20ml, so that's approximate. It was never less than 15ml, never more than 20 as measured by volume.
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Yeah, I know my light sucks, but I could see it just fine, even if the camera couldn't. And yes, I saw the drop of HCl on the side, but it made its way down. Again, that would account for a MAYBE .1ml difference in HCl, which would only be 1.6mg worth of titration.
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According to the instructions I'm following, you're supposed to titrate back to acidic (yellow), not to the equilibrium point, because all the nicotine isn't titrated at the equilibrium point.
I'm not a scientist, I'm not pretending to be, these are approximate results, but it's clear as day that the batch is ~90% stronger than it should be, and this across more than 20 tests over two weeks.
Edit: I have no problem with your results, I just wanted to point out that these numbers shouldn't be treated as 100% accurate, more approximate to the actual concentration. (So as to make sure people realize that if they titrate and find it to be 105 mg/mL or off in whatever way, that is probably user error and the concentration can be trusted from the supplier.)
As stated, I think that the batch is off, I just don't think that those numbers can be treated as accurate/gospel. You got consistently high numbers, high enough that the actual batch is off, I just wouldn't treat 180mg/mL as the definitive concentration of this. Just as I saw further down that you got 105mg/mL for the fresh batch, which I would trust the 100 mg/mL on from nude nic over that 105mg/mL reading you got.
If anything, that makes it harder to work with... which works to your point about it being dangerous and not something that could be used to make juices.
I 100% agree. Let's say my materials and process put me off by 5-10%, using the titrations of good batches of 100mg/ml as our yardstick. That means the high test batch is probably closer to 171-162mg/ml. Its a little like being the guy in prison for the least number of murders - you're still in prison for murder.
Ah, the fscking lab scientists come calling.
You and your regulators are a problem, because you expect perfection and assume amateurs can't do things ourselves.
Thanks for ruining good stuff. Maybe go patent titration or something so no one can ever touch nicotine and we are forced to buy from NJOY.
That'll be safer!
For the record my orders with NN have been spot on.
Yep, and they had a great reputation for clean, good tasting nic, which is why I gave them a shot. Plenty of people have had a great experience, but there's several who are having this exact same issue and were fed the same BS about it being "cleaner and fresher" rather than actually getting help from nude.
Edit to include: my replacement bottle for half my order tastes great, titrates clean. I have no complaints about this new bottle.
Excuse my ignorance, but could you explain the 16.223 multiplier? Besides that, great video, and its scary that they would put out something like that. Seems very dangerous.
Bummer PR. Yes it is dangerous and I'm sure it was an isolated incident but NN is so good. Hate to see you lose customers because of it. Then again I understand if you hesitate because of this.
I will continue buying NN but will be careful with fresh batches.
Can someone explain how much stronger it actually is?
this video 100% proves why mag stirrers are not the right answer for viscous liquids.
True and not true. If I heated the mixture to around 50c, it would have been fine. My 2L 80/20 mixtures make perfect vortices.
lol downvotes. k
I just mean in general e-liquid production they aren't the right mixing tool. There is this obsession with mag stirring because everybody loves magnets and they are super neat-o. They just aren't very good at what they do when dealing with the viscosity we deal with in e-liquid making. There are many different mixing tools available for varying batch sizes from tiny to huge that are all way better.
The bottom line is the mag stir craze I see in every vape community I read is costing people a lot of money for inferior mixing.
Right now, Nude appears to be out of stock of all 100mg/ml sizes and PG/VG ratios. Wonder if it is related to their QC for this order.
Edit: Nude has an update on their front page saying that recent lots have failed QC.
>Just be an informed customer and all is well.
That's just about the most passive aggressive and smug thing I've ever heard out of a company's mouth.
Fuck them. I use nicselect anyway.
Do you order directly from NicSelect or one of the retailers listed on their site? I was thinking about giving them a shot.
Makes me happy I didn't buy into the NN hype. This seems like a hassle
Dude, I have wasted so much fucking time solving this issue. Let alone dealing with all the people saying I'm somehow doing it wrong or I'm out to get Nude. Making this video alone kept me up till 5am. That's why this is my final post on the subject, all the information is out there, and I think the evidence in this video will be difficult to refute.
You see, this is what really peeves me about online shopping. I hate feeling like I'm jumping through hoops to receive the damn product I ordered. When you screw up, own up!
Bah, I hope they refund you and somehow prove to the community that they've stepped up QC because some of the nic levels you measured are crazy high/scary.
Ive ordered from them multiple times and every time theyve been on point. Plus they have the smoothest nicotine on the market as far as i am aware of. Ive tried plenty of companies, none of them match up to nn. Plus their customer service is on point. Even op got a replacement bottle.
This is pretty scary stuff and I'm glad you took the time to make this video. I think I am just as upset with their comment about not shaking the liquid and that you are an uninformed customer. Even if you were uninformed, is that any way to handle things from a PR perspective? To me that just says we aren't willing to accept any responsibility and that worries me. I realize they have put up an apology on their website but what they said in the apology contradicts what happened. They said they would never ever send out something that is subpar. Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't this subpar? I get that mistakes can happen but they should not have publicly placed the blame onto the customer.
Are you talking about this? http://www.nudenicotine.com/new-lot-due-arrive-asap/
Because that's an apology that they can't sell you nicotine because their standards are so high that they had to destroy a brand new batch from their supplier, not an apology for anything that has happened here.
They have not addressed this matter directly since they declined to announce the results of the samples I sent them that have been in their possession for more than two full days now. They also have samples belonging to /u/BleuXShadow they received around the same time, and have not given him any results.
They have now offered me a full refund, even though I've only asked for half, so we'll see if that comes through any time soon.
You are right, the apology doesn't address what happened to you or anyone else that received a similar product. You deserve one but I have a feeling that you might not get it. I'm not a lawyer but I assume if they did issue one, it would be admitting guilt which could potentially hurt them if this became a legal matter.
Regardless, I appreciate your diligence on this matter. I'm interested in seeing how NN responds. I have not personally had any issues with them but I like to pay attention to how businesses respond. So far, I haven't been impressed with how they handled the situation and that makes me rethink my desire to purchase from them in the future.
OK. Assuming there really is an issue with Nude Nicotine's concentrations in their VG mixes, here is my best guess as to what is going on.
VG is incredibly thick. In the video OP made, he attempted to mix it with the magnetic stir. He expected to see a vortex. There was no vortex. What if the magnetic stir is insufficient to properly mix VG? Also when OP was mixing, the stir kept on getting stuck. What if that is also occurring at Nude Nicotine. And what if the lab attendant isn't that attentive, comes back restarts the stir and thinks the lost mixing time isn't that big of a deal?
Here are Nude Nicotine instagram photos of them mixing different substances in 4000 ml beakers, with a heated magnetic stir in what I assume is PG.
https://instagram.com/p/zfcNG7IqDQ/?modal=true
https://instagram.com/p/ygKAGmIqOw/?modal=true
What I would want for Nude Nicotine to do, is to test out their mixing methodology with VG with a bottle of glitter and see what the results are.
I applaud you for doing this. Too many times we see people say things about other people without hard evidence of any misdoings or misgivings. The internet is a funny place like that. It's easy to make claims whether your intention is to hurt someone or a business; or not.
You did the due diligence, and proved your point here unquestionably. You got a bad batch, and NN should look at all the batches from the same batch number as those; and recall them/replace them.
Thank you for going the extra mile to prove your statement, rather then just making it without the proof( as many people do in many different situations) +1 for /u/project_twenty5oh1
Thanks for the support brother. See you next week!
For sure, and baller. Wasn't sure if you were going to make it. It's coming soooo soon! Phew.
After seeing how this series of posts from /u/project_twenty5oh1, I sure am glad Reddit wasnt around when I was self employed for 20+ years. One man has totally damaged the reputation of a company. From what I see /u/NudeNicotine is doing everything he can to make this right. But scores of people have read the first few post in these threads and came to the conclusion that all NN nic base has "Ridiculously" high nic content. When I have a problem with a vendor, I contact them personally and work out the issue. I would never run a smear campaign, well unless they ignored me and never tried to make it right. Just saying..
Unfortunately for himself and his reputation (which will recover just fine, I'm sure), Jake didn't do everything in his power to set this right when it first started. He blamed the victim, side-stepped, ignored, and then even slightly-mocked before finally kowtowing to popular opinion and irrefutable proof. Sometimes naming and shaming has to be done, it's not pleasant but when it's a safety issue like this and when the vendor didn't resolve it in good faith initially, posts like these are warranted. When your business is built on the backs of redditors, you take care of redditors -- I know this firsthand.
Have you read through all three posts? In the first post, I say how I reached out to them and they told me it was impossible. It took a week of them telling everyone, publicly, that I didn't "shake the bottle" or "mix the nicotine" or "perform the test" correctly before I could prove to them on video that what I was saying was true.
And it affects more than me. I'd hope that you, as a business owner, would want to know when you were sending out bad product, especially when you're talking about doubling the strength of already toxic 100mg/ml nicotine.
I went to them first. They told me it was impossible, so I came here to ask if anyone had any similar experience. They are masters of their own destiny here.
edit: LOL, who the hell is following these 3 day old threads? I can literally think of only one person who would care enough.
I received my first NN batch last week. It's 100% PG at 60 mg/ml. Is there a likelihood this might be higher in nic as well? I haven't used it yet.
PG mixes seem to not have this issue, or less occurrences. That said, you should mix a very low mg batch to test, as well as purchase a test kit.
Wizard labs is out of stock. In stock at NN ironically enough. I dunno how I feel about spending an extra 10 bucks just to verify their own product.
I have plenty of nic from another vendor. I live around the block from these guys maybe I can work something out later.
Thanks for following up. I went back and reread the old posts last night hoping for an update.
I'm still very concerned about the fact that he was supposed to test your samples days ago and not only didn't, but also didn't post any reason why the delay.
To me it seems like he did test it and is now avoiding the issue. My guess is that he informed his lawyers of this potential issue, and his lawyers told him to not make a statement.
where have I seen that backfire...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streisand_effect
This is reddit. this approach won't work.
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####	 Streisand effect:
>
>The Streisand effect is the phenomenon whereby an attempt to hide, remove, or censor a piece of information has the unintended consequence of publicizing the information more widely, usually facilitated by the Internet.
>It is named after American entertainer Barbra Streisand, whose 2003 attempt to suppress photographs of her residence in Malibu, California inadvertently drew further public attention to it. Similar attempts have been made, for example, in cease-and-desist letters to suppress numbers, files, and websites. Instead of being suppressed, the information receives extensive publicity and media extensions such as videos and spoof songs, often being widely mirrored across the Internet or distributed on file-sharing networks.
>====
>Image ^(i) - The image of Streisand's Malibu house that led to the naming of the effect.
^Interesting: ^Mike ^Masnick ^| ^Protected ^Streaming ^| ^FotoInsight ^| ^ANN7
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My sample is so strong I can't even mix it at 3mg. Its an off pink color and smells harsh.
I'm beginning to feel worried of /u/NudeNicotine 's lack of communication the past 4 days regarding Lot A080 Nic and B013 PG. I am new into DIY ejuice and received an A080 100mg sample. This is a very serious issue and a statement regarding these Lots needs to be made by the company
Again, this issue is pertaining to an isolated shipment. Lot A080 is a master lot of nicotine that is diluted per request per shipment. Your sample should have no issues and of complete integrity :-) as always, we recommend testing solutions before use, but please be reassured although your nicotine lot number is identical, each dilution is unique :-)
Why are you skirting around the issue!? The proper response is not "This is a freak accident" OR "OP is crazy/careless/can't test". It annoys me that you show up on these forums acting like everything is all fine and dandy. You're telling us, "We sell perfect products and what happened here is impossible to duplicate." How can you say that when some people have issues?
I'm not saying NN is selling bad products - there's no evidence. Yet, at the same time, you have to be an idiot to believe their claim that they sell perfect products, because there's even less evidence of that. Man up and at least acknowledge SOME people have SOME kind of issues. If your initial reply was "Something's going on, we're not sure where's the issue, but let's figure it out together," then I think a lot of people will be happier. Because ignoring the issue - whether it's due to faulty testing, bad products, or drunken squirrels knocking over cans, is clearly not the right answer. It is absolute BULLSHIT to just ignore the issues. I'm not saying your product is bad. I'm saying your concern for the safety of your users is nonexistent.
And you're totally right here. That's not the attitude we want to purvey AT ALL. I wish we had a more staffed office front-end so that we could have caught this issue IMMEDIATELY. I'll admit that's a huge problem at the moment for us - an understaffed office to deal with issues IMMEDIATELY such as these.
"Something's going on, we're not sure where's the issue, but let's figure it out together," has been Jake's attitude since day 1 (speaking of myself in 3rd person here haha), and feel horrible we're not working constructively here.
I'd really like to turn this into a PSA for proper mixing, handling, and testing of raw components for ANY AND ALL DIY mixers out there. Our recent label revisions pertinent to 100% VG solutions are an immediate reaction to this issue. I am still @ odds with the data generated from this bottle, and attempted to replace the bottle right away as soon as we heard of the issue (admittedly wasn't there for the customer on the phone when he first called and I feel REALLY REALLY bad on that front) but offered a full refund and full replacement (of which had been immediately taken care of).
I'm here for you guys. What can we do to turn this into a constructive PSA rather than a le ol reddit witchhunt?
Best, Jake
Thank you. I personally didn't notice an issue with mine being too strong, just being cautious. I'm glad to hear it is an isolated incident as I love your product vs. other labs and have convinced a good handful of makers to switch to you guys. Thanks /u/NudeNicotine
I love your nic and products. I'm always recommending you here and on various forums and Facebook. Grow some balls and man up to this problem. You're in the wrong, you know it, do something about it. You are looking like an idiot completely avoiding the serious issue here.
Everyone, I highly recommend checking out VaperTek nicotine. Just as clean, if not cleaner than NN. And the owner of NN has proven to be quite the jackass over the last several days. He's making it nearly impossible for anyone to defend him.
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Damn twenty5, you a sexy motha fucka.
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Fuckin' sucks that this has all happened. Sucks that their supplier fucked up, sucks that they didn't test it, sucks that they responded so poorly, sucks that you have to do all this to prove whats up.
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Thoughts on NN currently? Like, what would they have to do or say to make this right? Personally I've never had issues with them but this is definitely concerning. Just curious what you think they could do from here to make it all good.
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how you doin'
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I absolutely agree, it's a shitty situation.
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If I were them, I would break the silence, apologize, offer to make right anyone who has gotten bad nic with replacements, figure out what happened and take steps to prevent it while doing so transparently.
Absolutely. Hope they come forward and do all that. I get that they wanna keep their brand name associated with how great their nic has been, but just flat out denying that this could be something on their end was just lame. Hope they own up to it all. Good luck to you buddy.
I looked at nude last night and there is an apology up, and they returned their stock to the chemical supplier,and a lot of bases are out of stock currently
I thought they disposed of it at the local hazmat. Definitely sucks, I know what it's like to get product you can't use and not have anything to work with for three weeks...
I didn't read it that carefully. The point is they got an inferior product from their supplier and are fixing the problem. That could happen to anyone. Chemical suppliers from China are putting out garbage all of the time
They are talking about lot A085 but the lot OP and others have problems with is lot A080 unless I'm mistaken?
They say the water content in that lot is too high which is a completely different issue, the post on their site doesn't seem related to this.
They also say
>we would NEVER EVER NEVER EVEVR NEVER release a lot of nicotine subpar to our standards – defined by the US Pharmacopeia and ISO 17025 for our data analytics.
But they did, they released a lot that appears to be about double the advertised concentration.
IMO, something like this would never pass QC. So it is likely that the nicotine is fine on their end but something went wrong with their mixing process for the individual bottles.
If they assay the individual bottles then... I really have no clue how they could miss a product so over concentrated. That would be some China level of QC honestly.
> IMO, something like this would never pass QC. So it is likely that the nicotine is fine on their end but something went wrong with their mixing process for the individual bottles.
This is my suspicion as well. And I'm not sure they test each bottle, I think they test the batch they mixed that day which then goes into each bottle.
Big props to /u/project_twenty5oh1 for catching and bringing this to everyone's attention, it was a pretty big mistake, which could have had more serious ramifications had he not. NN should be sending some love his way
Have never ordered from NN, but if I ever try someone besides ECX I'd probably give them a go, even after this
The way they seem been handling this mistake is decent. Looks like they're trying to find out what happened, who exactly was affected, and make good on any mistakes made. Vaping is still a new industry, mistakes will be made, NN seems like the type of company to hopefully learn from and improve when something like this happens