Deeper DIY, Part 2

submitted over 10 years ago by abdada

I have the flavor molecules from my previous post on order and have been digging deep into the flavorist engineer rabbit hole.

I recently found this site which has an incredible amount of free information. I particularly like the suitability ranks -- check out incense and tobacco suitability!

Also, this site has blog posts (of sorts) that also give a ton of information for the amateur flavorist.

My goal is to document the possibility of flavorings that don't use PG as the solvent carrier. I would prefer to avoid ethyl alcohol as well.

My first order is primarily creamier molecules and sweeter ones: caramel, maple, non-diketone custards, etc.

I'll be posting my findings publicly and hope that a vape friendly flavorist compounder may jump on creating more expansive non-PG flavor offerings that hopefully taste great and bring more options to both DIY and OEM mixers.

If you have any thoughts on molecules I'm missing, let me know.

Note: Deeper DIY is not for complete amateurs and requires more than basic chemistry knowledge as well as extremely rigorous safety standards. It is not for mixing in your garage or basement.

Comments

3 points

by returnityover 10 years agoMixologist

Very happy to see this part 2 post up, I'll be following your progress with great interest. As you progress, if you discover anything truly interesting, I'd love to privately purchase (with appropriate liability releases) some of your extensive stocks of precursor compounds to experiment with on my own. In the mean time, I'm planning an MF dilutions order from you shortly.

1 points

by abdadaover 10 years ago

I will be discussing the idea of vending to others in the near future -- met a chemical business lawyer recently who has a great track record.

He works with DIY beer brewing companies as well as "medicinal leaf" companies and might be able to help here.

I just got fresh MF in this week and am working on measuring by weight for future dilutions. By volume is just so time consuming and inexact.

2 points

by returnityover 10 years agoMixologist

I don't even bother measuring by volume for anything. Did one batch like that waiting for my scale to ship last year due to impatience -- never again. Glad to hear your dilutions will be done by weight from now on. Let me know when that is up and running so I can get an order in?

1 points

by abdadaover 10 years ago

My scale acted up twice last week so I'm going to buy 2 more next week or so.

Measuring by weight will definitely be more exactly and faster.

I actually now use my 10:1 (9:1 actually) dilutions for my own mixing. It is so much easier for testing flavor ideas.

2 points

by Enyawreklawover 10 years agoMixologist

This is awesome, I was just talking about this in an earlier post. Can't wait to see what you find out.

1 points

by abdadaover 10 years ago

Vaping is going to help shake up the flavorist industry. I can't wait to be a small part of it.

The idea that we can finally degenericize flavor bases is exciting. I am so damn bored of the banana creams out there -- imagine if each flavorist mix master truly made their own?

This means great things for DIY but I guarantee it will get some of us back into buying eliquids. If only to try to figure out how it was done.

2 points

by tournantover 10 years agoMixologist

Thanks again for these contributions. Super interesting. Please keep it up

1 points

by abdadaover 10 years ago

Sure thing! I'll start getting into more details on specific molecules as they effect vapor flavor, over time.

1 points

by abdadaover 10 years ago

Also, Google search for Leffingwell's PDF titled Identified Constituents of Fire-Cured Tobacco Supercritical CO2 Extract -- it is an amazing read if you're a flavorist fan. Released in 2013.

2 points

by Devo9090over 10 years agoFrugivore

This is seriously an intensely comprehensive study. Are all flavor-based publications so in-depth on identifying as many chemicals and chemical reactions as possible?

4 points

by abdadaover 10 years ago

I have spent over $4000 buying just 6 trade e-books. A few nights ago I laughed myself to literal tears at the intensity of flavor engineering.

One study I read on creating a popular orange chewy candy flavor spoke of adjusting one molecule (of many) from 2ppb to 3ppb before it was perfect.

2 points

by tournantover 10 years agoMixologist

Damn, Gina.

2 points

by clinodevover 10 years agoVanillinist

Flavor rabbit hole is tastiest rabbit hole. I love that vaping fulfills my research bug as well as it does so many others. Cheers and thanks!

1 points

by simpleone234over 10 years agoMixologist

I have some flavorings from reputable flavor manufacturers that have no carrier. Recommended starting usage is 0.1%. S&S is just one of them but there are many companies like that. Good luck to you!

1 points

by abdadaover 10 years ago

Even 0.1% might be too much in some cases. I've read up on some aroma molecules that are potent at 1ppm or even 1ppb!

Of course with vaping we need to use different values than food or perfume.

I'm looking for the molecules that are used in much higher amounts in common vape flavorings -- in the 1%-10% range.

Looking at common recipe sheets for common vape flavors leads me to believe that the 12 aroma molecules I ordered are used in the vast majority of flavorings.

The base notes are so generic to me from all the big vendors -- hence why I want something unique. I would love a sour cream base instead of a custard base -- more yogurt like.

I also want more smoky and woody but without the tobacco note.

1 points

by returnityover 10 years agoMixologist

Any thoughts on the existing Yogurt base flavorings?

1 points

by abdadaover 10 years ago

I think it is acetoin and a hint of 2 methyl 2 pentanoic acid which so far I've only seen from Chinese flavorists.

I have some feelers out, though. I definitely have ideas on sour cream flavors but it is an incredible amount of work to figure it out without having a flavorist nose and tongue.

Hopefully I'll pick one up!

Also read this and scroll down to aroma molecules: http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1541-4337.2011.00151.x/full

1 points

by Devo9090over 10 years agoFrugivore

0.1% of the pure flavor? Or 0.1% of the diluted flavor in some solvent such as PG, water, etc?

1 points

by abdadaover 10 years ago

Probably 0.1% of final mix.

S&S (I assume he means in Brea, CA) sells truly unlimited flavor component mixes to food and beauty trades. They are potent but not individual molecule superpotent.

0 points

by Badgerfacedcatover 10 years ago

Thanks for the info. Hopefully you got my email.

1 points

by abdadaover 10 years ago

I tagged it! I get a lot of emails daily and I try to only email between 5am and 9am daily. I appreciate the sharing!