What's the deal with max VG? Clouds, bruh?
I understand if you have a PG allergy. By all means, avoid what you're allergic to. It baffles me that when folks are trying to develop a flavor, they see the need to cut all of the flavor carrying agent from the mix.
It's not that I don't get it. I personally prefer 60/40 or 70/30, but when I'm trying to make a recipe, I mix at 50/50 because I beleive that it mixes better and the actual flavor comes through more. Then after I have something I like, I adjust the VG/PG ratio. I almost always have to adjust something after I make the base change.
Maybe I'm stupid. Maybe my taste buds are stupid. Maybe I'm just wrong, but "I tried your recipe and it sucked when I mixed max VG and vaped it in a clearo with 4 month old coils" is infuriating.
Ok ranting over.
St. Alfonzo's Pancake Breakfast
7% TPA Belgian Waffle
4% TPA Straberry (ripe)
3% TPA Bluberry Extra
2% TPA Sweet Cream
The waffle keeps fading off after a week or so. Any tips?
PG tastes terrible
Amen. I think it tastes fake or something.
You obviously aren't using certified organic PG. It's 100% natural.
And also glutin-free FTW!
I will never go 100% VG, but everything I make is between 60-80% VG. Not because I'm obsessed with clouds btw, since I don't build ludicrous cloud coils, but just because I prefer the texture of a thick vapor. I have to tweak my recipes so there's enough PG to give good flavor, but none of my recipes are disappointing with 'only' 40% pg.
> Maybe I'm stupid. Maybe my taste buds are stupid. Maybe I'm just wrong
you are wrong, but not about your preference. As Pbusardo says: whatever keeps you off the real thing is what is best for you. If you vape 100%pg out of a stardust and I vape 100% VG out of a dark horse, we can both be right as long as it works.
I wonder sometimes if some peoples aversion to PG is imagined or reinforced by cloud-chasers posts about high-VG juices.
For me... too much VG in my juice seems to give me congestion in my lungs. For a while I hopped onto the high-VG bandwagon, more just to try it out because so many people rave about it. For for a few months I mixed max-VG juice. I slowly started noticing over time that my lungs would get a little congested, I would cough up a bit of nothing serious or my breathing when laying down was a little bit... bubbly or something. I put it down to all the trees I'd been enjoying, but then I went off trees for a few months and the congestion persisted. It never got worse... always just a little bit, but it was bugging me.
On a whim I mixed up some 40%VG/60%PG juice and within a week the congestion was gone.
So... am I sensitive to VG? Maybe... really I don't consider my experience enough to get on an anti-max-VG thing, but since then I've been mixing 40%VG juices, and I find them delicious and satisfying, and my lungs are great.
I would probably never have gone max-VG in the first place, except for the very many people both here and on /r/electronic_cigarette raving about how great it was.
Anyhow... I agree with your sentiment. Thanks for the recipe... try Capella Waffle instead, it blows the TPA Belgian Waffle out of the water.
It kinda makes sense that VG would stuff you up -- I only have noticed this if I take the deepest longest lung hits with VG.
Consider what I wrote elsewhere in this thread about the boiling points of PG versus VG. When heating up PG, you are assured to boil it. PG (and VG) can convert to H2O (water), CO2 (carbon dioxide), CH2O (formaldehyde) and CH3CHO (acetaldehyde). But some of what you vape in and out is also just PG or VG "mist", no different than water boiling.
I think part of the reason for PG's throat hit is that you're actively boiling it under heat, whereas VG you're just vaporizing it without reaching the boiling point. A vapor mist is going to be "heavier" in terms of congestion than a hot boiling vapor.
My girlfriend gets ridiculous nosebleeds from PG. I don't mean a tiny drop, I mean pouring nose bleeds for 15 minutes. PG is a known allergen and can be toxic to some as well.
I can certainly see how people could be allergic or otherwise sensitive to PG, and it's good that we can tweak a juice mix to minimize those problems.
I was very surprised that I had problems with VG, so surprised that I'm not entirely convinced it wasn't something else, like flavourings or air pollution or seasonal allergies.
I guess it's not off topic to say... Damn, this is a neat hobby!
I am the same, I like the sensation of bigger vapor clouds, it adds some satisfaction to vaping honestly, but the congestion and less flavour isn't worth it. Cloud chasing just seems to embody the trashy flat bill hat wearing side of vaping, how do these kids pay for vaping gear and new tattoos? (If I offended anyone here I am ok with that)
" The waffle keeps fading off after a week or so. Any tips?"
Up your vg %. ..... honestly though, don't be so sensitive, i mix 80/20 vg/pg always and damnd if I'm going to mix at 50/50 only to have to then bump up the vg and go back to the drawing board and adjist flavor again. Screw that, do what works for you brosiden, lord of the brocean
bombies tole me if my coulds were thick enuff to draw an atlas tom hanks wud like my "cloud atlas" and then i could ascend to subohm valhalla.
ahhhh, but honestly, I get it. I hate fiddlin' as much as the next guy. What works is what works. Glad it works for you. works werks wurks.
I am, as of yet, not convinced that PG is long term safe for me. Yes, I was a smoker for 20 years and I also knew it was a bad idea. Vaping has been amazing, but now that I am on a harm reduction path, I will continue to read and research and look into negative effects.
For me, the problems with PG aren't something that are a major concern -- nothing like the crap that is put into tobacco or even frozen dinners.
That being said, I have no PG allergies, but I also know what PG is used for in industrial purposes. PG has a boiling point of 189C -- we regularly hit temperatures of 240-320C+. I think part of the throat hit from PG is that it's boiling. VG's boiling point is 554C -- almost impossible to hit from a wet coil.
The second issue I have with PG is that it IS a plasticizer. It is considered nontoxic, and my own research tells me that it is likely harmless at the temperatures we are vaping at. But at this point, I am refraining from PG until I have more evidence that it isn't leaving a film on my lungs -- cumulative or otherwise.
VG sucks for flavor, I agree. I have found a lot of benefit in balancing the pH level of VG to enhance flavors, and it's significant for sure. I also have vaped plenty of heavy flavor PG-free handcrafted eliquids from OEMs, so I know what can be done.
I am very, very happy with my own DIY blends that are PG-free, and I like knowing I am vaping a solvent below its boiling point and any transition point to other chemical compounds. I don't go 100% PG-free because I love visiting vape shops and seeking out new flavor combos, but when it comes to DIY, PG-free is how I roll.
Hmmm... I've seen my max VG juice bubble and vape off my atty when I don't have the cap on... Is that not boiling?
Do you add distilled? When you say Max VG, what carrier solvents are in your flavorings themselves?
Alcohol, water and PG all boil at low temps.
What is this about ph balancing? I am new to diy and struggling with it. Maybe this is something I am missing?
It's nothing to be concerned about right now, but from my very limited and early research work, it's one of the key elements of the higher end handcrafted eliquids for sure.
pH balancing is as simple as adding an acid if your eliquid is too basic. A drop of ACV or lemon juice can do wonders for bringing flavors out brighter, but too much and you end up with bland eliquids.
Starting out, I wouldn't concern yourself with it.
So where do you get your VG based flavors, /u/abdada? Seems the selection is very small at this point in time, at least from what I've found. Thanks!
I use mostly Medicine Flower which is pure extract without VG or PG carriers. That's my base. I'll use Nature's Flavors as highlights and they use VG and EA for carrier solvents.
Nude Nic's flavor concentrates are also VG and EA. TFA sells some PG free as well.
I'm also starting to play with steam distillation of my own flavors but that is months away from being a source for me.
I'm not even trying to be a dick, but what makes the vapor when you vape then? Gently warmed VG? Perhaps we use a different definiton of vapor? Or a different understanding of physics?
It is complicated -- drawing the fluid through a tiny chamber lowers the boiling point of VG and PG. So technically both are boiling, but the temperature is much lower due to the pressure difference. Also, there are colligative changes in boiling points.
The temperature that VG and PG turn to acrolein and formaldehydes aren't affected by pressure nor colligation. So while you can vaporize both at a lower temperature thanks to high pressure and colligation, the vapor production isn't at a temp that creates harmful by products.
I hope that makes some sense.
Well maybe the 4 month old coils are the problem lol. I vape 90/10 mixes exclusively. Like others have said before pg hits my throat pretty hard and im not a fan. But i get pretty good flavor out of my 90/10 mixes. But then again i vape .1 ohm coils at 150 watts.