Why does no one use Polysorbate 80 or 60?

submitted over 10 years ago by dchperemi

They are both used commercially in food, liquid medicines, and cosmetics, are flavorless, less viscous than VG, soluble in oils, water and alcohol...

is there a reason this stuff never became common?

(I haven't made a juice with them, but am wondering if anyone has ever tried)

Update: So it seems like no one has tried to vape it and can say how it tastes/feels. And although it's in inhaled medicines, there have been more studies proving PG's safety over long term use. And it's slightly more expensive.

Comments

3 points

by o0turdburglar0oover 10 years ago

I'm no expert on this stuff by any means...

Inhalation is different than ingestion, so unless I could find something on these other substances that specifically tested for safety via inhalation I wouldn't even consider it personally.

But I have personally read multiple studies on VG/PG specifically regarding inhalation - including a study performed on rats and chimps where they lived in an environment full of vaporized PG almost up to the saturation point for 18 months with no ill effects.

2 points

by PinheadXover 10 years ago

that's a good point, but I believe it's used as an emulsifier in medications that are inhaled… Not positive on that, but there may be data already out there.

Yup… for example, in asthma medications.

http://www.drugs.com/pro/budesonide-inhalation-suspension.html

1 points

by dchperemiover 10 years ago

They do put it in inhaled medicine. I saw it on the back of a nasal decongestant, which is what got me thinking about it. But a few shots of nasal spray doesn't beat 18 months of saturation. It seems like PG has been more thoroughly tested over long term use?

1 points

by o0turdburglar0oover 10 years ago

I can't really say that PG has been more thoroughly tested than Polysorbate 60/80, as I've never personally researched those...

But PG has been around since the 40s or 50s and has been thoroughly tested by numerous sources specifically regarding inhalation safety.

The specific study I cited regarding the 18 month case study can be found in the Journal of Pharmacology - The abstract is free to view, but it costs money to download the entirety of the study.

1 points

by rabidnzover 10 years ago

http://infertility.suite101.com/article.cfm/polysorbate_80_causes_infertility#ixzz0CDMH6UOp

13 points

by banoyesover 10 years ago

As a vaper, I say leave it alone. As a father of 3 boys, i say vape the shit out of it lol.

3 points

by scotty4020over 10 years ago

Hell yeah, birth control in a vape

1 points

by kb-airover 10 years ago

I love you.

4 points

by NA_Aspireover 10 years ago

That looks just like a BS blog.

3 points

by dchperemiover 10 years ago

Well, yea, but there's also this attesting to polysorbate 80's safety--specifically bunking the single incident of a woman going into anaphylactic shock after an IV drip the doctors claimed was fine, and so blamed the polysorbate.

and then there's this attesting to PG's unsafety

anybody can go to I'mright.com and find the study they want to prove the thing they want. Maybe there is more studies saying polysorbates are worse than PG. In which case I should really throw out my nasal spray. I'm just saying, based on its common usage and apparent ability to blend alcohols and oils and water, I'm kind of surprised no one has tried it.

1 points

by PinheadXover 10 years ago

Well... I'm all for something that would cause PG/VG/Flavoring to blend better, reducing or eliminating aging time and probably contributing to overall shelf stability.

Perhaps this is what lolerwaffles uses to process his juices... hrm...

1 points

by doveenigma13over 10 years ago

Cost?

1 points

by dchperemiover 10 years ago

Half a liter is about 16 bucks on Amazon--so almost twice as expensive as VG or PG. And it's harder to come by (no free shipping, only one manufacturer). So, that could be a big reason.

1 points

by doveenigma13over 10 years ago

I figured it would be.

1 points

by alive1over 10 years ago

SO how does she vape? Do you like the taste/clouds? Maybe it's not used because it doesn't fulfill the needs of vapers.

1 points

by PinheadXover 10 years ago

something that would make "steeping" unnecessary? Sounds like it would perfectly fulfill the needs of vapers.

1 points

by dchperemiover 10 years ago

That's the biggest thing I've thought of--the clouds. As far as I know that's a big VG perk, and not something anyone wants to get rid of. Maybe this stuff could replace PG in VG/PG blends, but I have no idea how that would react. I'm really curious.

1 points

by mayor-of-whoreislandover 10 years ago

I never vaped for the clouds, in fact it would be great if they went away completely.

1 points

by dchperemiover 10 years ago

I'm a cloud whore. But, hey, if this stuff actually produces a good vape sans clouds, you're proving there's a market for it.

-4 points

by returnofthedokover 10 years ago

Formaldehyde

2 points

by dchperemiover 10 years ago

Is this a punk song about the dangers of chemical additives? I didn't know what nerd was until today.

1 points

by returnofthedokover 10 years ago

Actually its pretty common alot of punk music, specifically crust punk is against all kinds of shit, food additives are a big part.

not that this has anything to do with vaping hahah