So recently I've been getting a handful of PM's for people about this type of thing. I figured I'd throw it out here just to generally help as many people as possible. I HIGHLY encourage other experienced mixers to comment here. I am not the end all be all GOD of juice making, hell I'm not even an apostle or even the guy standing down the street for that matter.
I've simply done my best during my time mixing to follow 'best practices' used what worked, didn't use what didn't work for me, and just moved on.
So here's the recent PM I received from /u/MissingL_tter:
> Anyways, a lot of the juices I mix lack that "pop" or distinctness that I get from many of the juices I buy. I've noticed this mainly with my fruit mixes but some others as well. Is this because of a lack of citric acid or some other additive or am I just missing some thing important for serious mixers? If it is citric acid or something else, how much should I use, .5%, 1%?
> Also, I have noticed that a lot of the mixes I have seen you post or some others have posted use low percentages of many flavors instead of higher percentages of a few. Is there a reason some of the better mixers do things this way and/or (basically what all this boils down to) are there any tricks to being a better mixer than just being creative and patient?
> I thoroughly enjoy the satisfaction from enjoying a vape that I mixed myself or watching others enjoy a juice I mixed but thus far I haven't been stellar at mixing. Any help would be greatly appreciated.
And here is my response to this type of thing:
PATIENCE
The biggest advice I can give when you are frustrated at this level is this: Think of what you want to make, what you want it to taste like. Buy as many different flavors that you can possibly find that will work with that profile including the additives or boosters, such as pear with apples, pomegranate with berries, etc.
Then start super simple, mix up one recipe using your ingredients and only use ONE of each flavor. Try it after a day. Then try it with a different variation of ONE flavor. Wait until you get the flavor you like out of that particular one. Then start working on the others. Once you have the flavors right, then to get them to really pop correctly, you first need to get the percentages dialed in PERFECTLY. Then you need to start playing with additives like CA, MA, EM, Sweetener etc. as well as flavors that do the same type of thing. Usually at this stage, additional percentage adjustments of your base flavors will need to be made but not until after a decent steep time.
Really, it's not an easy thing to just throw things together. It takes weeks of detailed note taking and tons of variations of a recipe before I really get any of them dialed in to the point I like them. Once I get them to the point I like them, it's usually another 4-6 weeks at a minimum to get them close to perfect.
Patience is the biggest thing here. Also, to do things correctly, you need to be mixing 30ml+ batches, not 5ml samples. You need to be able to vape it for a good 30-45 minutes with multiple fills in a dripper IMPO anyways, to really understand the taste.
Lastly, mix by weight, not volume, it's simply more accurate. The other reason for mixing larger batch sizes, outside of preventing yourself from vaping all of it before it's had a chance to steep, is to minimize margin of error and make it easier to re-produce.
Since I started ordering stuff in bulk, after I get the basic flavor profile down, my adjustments I make to juices after that get mixed @ 100ml at a crack so that i can get 1/10th percentages dialed in accurately with the ability to repeat it correctly.
I hope this helps some folks out there. The majority of what I've posted above has kinda been trickling around here, and as I said, it's all 'best practices' none of this is really original to me. Just taking what I've learned and putting it in writing for y'all.
By contrast, mixes that you want to be in your face tend to mellow a lot post-cure. Mixing these to counter mellowing can make them harsh. Luckily it's much easier to smooth out rough notes with additives than replace them. (EM, smooth, MTS)
That is a fantastic addition. It's super important to not judge a book by it's cover. Similarly, it's even more important to not judge a juice based on how it tastes right after mixing.
ALL of my juices change flavors over time. The key is, even if planning to vape it immediately, to be able to develop a juice that even if it's flavor profile changes, still tastes amazing a week, a month, or even 6 months later.
I've found using my own coffee, vanilla bean, tea extracts in combination with a good recipe really give some of my flavours their own personality. Of course the profile you can use these easy extracts in is a bit limited and it's best to make large batches to avoid any variance between them.
I can't afford to mix 30ml samplers, so I do 10ml with a 0.01g resolution scale, but I agree it would be a lot easier to mix at 30ml. I'd also add testing in a clearomizer once the recipe is almost complete and the flavour is right in a dripper.
When I'm about to throw away some 10ml samples, I mix two together I think could compliment each other and hope for some miracle. It hasn't happened yet, but given enough time I'm sure I'll stumble on something amazing.
How do you find they last and do you mix them stronger than bought flavours?
I did a coffee and a vanilla diy extract but the coffee seems to have degraded and the vanilla is very weak...
My coffee extract is very strong, and have found it to mellow over time, so I only use it in very low percentages in combination with other coffee like flavours otherwise its too bitter. I use the stainless steel mesh used for geni atomizers to strain it over a few days.
My vanilla just keeps getting stronger however with the split bean in it. Its not a science with your mileage varying since no two beans are the same. I'd just test the flavour once every few days after 2-3 weeks until you find a strength you like, then strain it. I do tend to use it in slightly higher percentages then some other vanilla flavours, but once again its usually used in combination with them.
Good post. Along these lines - I love HIC's recipes and they all use really low percentages. He seems to think that ratios matter more than the actual percentages you're using and I'm starting to agree. I've made several mixes where I lowered the flavoring percentage but tried to keep the ratio identical. In most cases it worked really well and the difference in flavor was pretty small.
So definitely start low. Get the ratios down. Once you have them down, raise the percentages if you need to.
"Then start super simple, mix up one recipe using your ingredients and only use ONE of each flavor. Try it after a day. Then try it with a different variation of ONE flavor. "
Could you explain this a little further? I don't quite understand. ONE of each flavor?
So say I want to make a key lime pie.
My ingredients are going to be:
- Lime
- Pie
- Pie Crust
I would start off using something like TFA Key Lime, Cheesecake Graham Crust, and Pie Crust.
After tasting a couple times over a couple days, I'd mix up another variation with a different lime but leave the cheesecake and pie crust alone.
Once I get my lime or combination of limes dialed in, then I'll adjust the cheesecake and pie crust.
Unless something is just horribly off, which it shouldn't be once you have a basic understanding of the strength of your flavors, I would avoid making multiple changes to a recipe in a single batch.
So now a I use a different lime and it still isn't quite right, next attempt may be a combination of limes. Then once I have the lime flavor dialed in I can play with the pie crust and cheesecake. Once those flavors are dialed in, time to perfect percentages, then start playing with additives to adjust what needs adjusting.
holy crap..... i don't think I will ever be able todo my own DIY.. This is some crazy stuff haah.
Just be a lazy DIY'er like me. Find the best mixers who share recipies and follow their hard work. Then if ya get bored or curious try making a creation or two of your own.
Then you get to have fun, save $, and be a part of the community at a fraction of the effort.
Haha.. I'm the SUPER LAZY diyer.. I just buy premixed extracts from mt baker hahha.