If you want the monthly recipe thread it is in the sidebar. I am taking over the Stickied position because we mods are getting hit on both sides.
On the newbie side we are seeing multiple posts asking the same questions over and over. Look, I was new at this once too, and I realized after my first order that I needed a bunch more stuff. No big deal, place another order, it's not the end of the world. But I understand that you want to be able to make some vape-able juice with your first order. For you folks I will put together a first-timer's guide in the near future and link it in the sidebar. Is there anything else we can offer that will help the newcomers with their first juice? Please let me know and we will provide it. *See Edit Below
On the other side, the more experienced DIYers are leaving the sub, complaining about "what this sub has become", starting competing (and IMO redundant) subs, or messaging the mods that there are too many of the same posts, and can't we do something about it. For this group, I have added text to the submit form, encouraging people to exhaust the many resources we have in the sidebar, and to use the search function before they post. If you have other recommendations, let me know.
The third redundant post is 'here's my flavors, what can I make?'. Here's a couple of resources for you:
- /u/daath has a nice website that has this functionality, but you will need to register to make it work. It is not very intuitive but if you work with it you can input your flavors and get a list of recipes that you can make. IMO this is the better site if you have the patience to make it work for you. Edit2: to get this to work, first set up an account. Then add your flavors to the stash (under my page / my flavor stash. hit save. Then go back to the front page and click the link next to the search field, "Search by flavor stash". You can select a couple of your flavors and recipes that have those will pop up.
- This site has a nice big search button with just what you're looking for.
*See Edit Below
Finally, we have the clone request. Look, we do DIY, most of us no longer buy juice. We can't clone a juice if we don't have the original to compare it to. I personally haven't bought commercial juice in about a year, and only taste the 'premium stuff' when my friends offer me a taste. Clone requests that are on the order of "OMG I can't afford suicide bunny somebody please tell me how to make it" will henceforth be removed. On the flip side, if you post "Hey, here's my SB clone recipe, what do you think and can you help me refine it" - those posts will be encouraged. Actually I'd prefer you post "close enough" recipes to the official Clone threads (see sidebar), and only make a new post if it needs some work.
*See Edit Below
OK, mod rant over. What do you guys think? How can we improve the quality of content in this sub? All input is appreciated. We just aim to make this the single best resource on the web for DIYers of all skill levels.
*Edit At the suggestion of /u/captaincannibal, I've spent a nice summer evening in front of the computer configuring AutoModerator to add repeating posts to the sub. These are:
- Mondays we will have a noob questions thread. Anything goes. If you follow our advice and get penis stuck in electrical outlet, so be it.
- Fridays we will have a "What can I make with this list of flavors" thread. If you've exhausted the resources provided, kind souls from among our group will try to help you make something from your crab, bacon, vanilla and absinthe order.
- Monthly we will have an official clone recipe request thread. You want some Grandmaster recipes? Ask away.
Your feedback is always appreciated.
Well, I'm super new here and probably have 0 credibility, but as you may have noticed in my month being around I'm pretty active.
I would suggest that we do our best to expand on the Getting Started in DiY sidebar. I'd also add basically an "Idiot's Guide to DiY". A here's what you should order and here are a couple vendors that carry it all would be helpful as well (some of the most common questions I've been seeing anyways). This was the scariest part to me when I made my first purchase. I'm stingy as hell and didn't want to order the wrong stuff but didn't even know where to begin. Thankfully, I have an RL friend that DiY's and turned me on to most of the basics I needed from WL and I went from there.
Clone requests etc, simply need to be moderated and deleted.
I also think we should add a well monitored recipe thread similar to the TFA Recipes, Cap Recipes and FA recipes that's in the sidebar, only it encompasses every recipe there as well as all new recipes from the monthly recipe threads and the clone thread.
Having a one stop shop recipe thread would be uber cool. I just recently posted the spreadsheet that I had compiled of a ton of recipes from Reddit, ECF and a hanful of other sites. It's only about 150 recipes but it's a start (mainly the stuff I had the majority of ingredients for and wanted to make) but this might be another option for storing ALL recipes that are out there.
I'm more than willing to help to put together some of this information to save you guys some time. Let me know what I can do to help.
Conclusion
- Improve the Getting Started in DiY Sidebar
- Add a 'Here's what you need to order to get started, and here's the vendors that supply it'
- Better moderation of redundant threads, clone requests, steeping/curing questions, etc.
- One stop shop for the DiY recipes from this amazing community.
Damn, thanks. I will take all of this into consideration.
Your second bullet point is perfect, yes. The Getting Started thread linked in the sidebar is good but some people are gonna skim right over that and think "holy shit this looks complicated look at all the numbers in this post". A simple guide basically saying "New? Try these recipes, heres where to buy the shit, heres how to mix it up, etc" guide would be perfect. I know if I had a guide like that the first time I tried DIY I probably would've stuck with a lot longer instead of giving up on it for a few months. People need a nice, solid, simple ground to start building on.
I think your points are pretty valid. Creating solid well-created guides to this and that would be awesome but the "noobs" need to have some respect for the community and do their research. What I mean by having respect is to simple attempt to do research and put a little effort in to learning on their own. So many resources have been created already, it is a shame to see those things go to waste.
The more experienced DIYers could consciously put some effort in to creating quality post to the best of their ability. There are certain topics, popular flavorings, common problems & solutions.
Another thing that would help Reddit in general is if people could stop being so cynical. Do not downvote things flippantly just because it does not match your narrow-minded perspective. Do not downvote simply to raise your post higher. Try and take a moment to put yourself in others shoes before you go on your rant.
Experienced DIYers: Don't assume you are the God of Vape and your opinion is automatically better than everyone elses. There is something to learn from anyone, and as soon as you box yourself in with all of your grand knowledge of this and that, you have quit learning.
Stay creative, find joy in what you do, try and change it up, and remember there is more than one way to view something.
To be fair, this is one of the things I looove about this sub. Some places like ECR are awful about downvoting every new post, but unless you're asking something really stupid just about every post here gets upvoted.
If you plan on making more clone recipe threads (like the two you have already started), add some sort of section/thread where people can request or discuss cloning of brand name juices that haven't yet been cloned, and add to the sidebar that those are the approved places where such things can be discussed, then by all means delete threads that request clone recipes.
In the last 30ish hrs I only see two requests for clones, one by me and another one. The other one had some interesting discussion (at least to someone like me that is new to this) about how some "flavors" are used to enhance the other flavors instead of just adding its own flavor. My thread only got one response from someone else and I could not continue a discussion by myself. Both threads ended up being down voted. Why? Where is it on the rules that we cannot request clone recipes? It's definitely not on the sidebar. I understand the issue with redundant posts, but that applies to any topic and not just to this in particular. So why is requesting clones so bad? What's with the attitude against asking for clones? (If you don't understand what I mean by the attitude part, re read how you worded the section talking about clone, and a couple of other comments that agree with you, one going so far as to not even justify why these types of posts should be deleted even when everything else in that comment is so well thought out and explained)
As someone who works for a restaurant I can tell you that one learns a great deal about cooking by making other people's recipes. Optimally one gets to work with really good chefs, learn their techniques, and apply that knowledge to create one's own recipes, to create one's own technique. It would of probably taken years to discover and perfect such techniques/knowledge by oneself (referencing the "this is a sub for tinkerers so do things on your own" mentality).
I'm sorry if this just sounds as a rant, I might have taken it a little personal and thus might have worded this more harsh/rude than what I wanted. But the message is still the same. I'm open for discussion on these topics.
Edit; spelling/words
In general, there are several threads a day that pop up on this sub that go something like this: Does anyone have a clone for XXYY Juice from AABB Vendor?
Now, let me point this out. First of all, if it's a local vendor carried @ your B&M odds are no one else here has tried it out. Secondly, if it's a very very popular vendor, and someone has developed a clone, it's posted in the clone thread.
We DO want clone recipes, however, we do NOT want clone requests. If you want a clone of a recipe, start a thread saying here's what I have going so far, something tastes off, here's everything I've tried and it's still not quite there, any suggestions on a different MFG of XXYY flavor that I can use to try to more closely mirror this juice?
If you are just looking to make someone else's recipe of a clone, browse the clone threads and start searching around. If you don't find anything, then YOU should take the first step at trying to develop that juice.
If there is a clone for it that a member of this sub is willing to share, I guarantee you it's in the clone recipe thread. If it's not there, well, this is a sub designed for DiY'ers, start DiYing and we will be happy to respond to your need for assistance as you detail out what you have tried. Most clones take a few dozen attempts to get right, if you haven't tried at least 5, don't bother posting.
I don't speak on behalf of this sub, and hell I'm a new redditor and new to the sub, but I get the concept, it's not hard, do some work yourself, we're not here to do it all for you.
This is not directed at any one person, just a general thought
This is a great start!
The trouble I had starting was figuring out what brands to use, and then what supplies I needed.
Nic only took about 10 minutes to get a consensus on, NakeNicotine seems the way to go for now
PG and VG, not so much. I still am not sure who most people trust, I am trying Naked simply because they seem to really take pride in their products.
Other supplies were the toughest part. There are some pretty comprehensive lists here, but some seemed too comprehensive. Maybe if we could put together two shopping lists for starters, an economy version and then one for those with more money to invest from the start.
I would have liked to expand on this but I have to cut this post short and I do not want to just delete it...
This should really cover most of the basics. But like/u/joekerr37 said, nothing we can do will deter people who don't want to read the sidebar and wasn't things handed to them. There was a post earlier today that had questions that the sidebar couldn't answer, but it looks like it was deleted(by user or mod, I don't know).
There has been a bit of an attitude change as of late in the sub. To the point where I don't want to post certain things simply because I don't want to deal with internet drama about my opinions on flavors.
What questions were raised that the sidebar and search couldn't deal with? I haven't seen anything in a while that fits that description.
I was referring to a post from earlier. Looks like the user deleted it themselves. But you had offered to send a bottle of one of your own mixes if it could be proven that the question wasn't answered by the sidebar. I don't remember the details to much, someone else proved it though.
100% agree; I've been on this sub for three months or so and it's just getting tedious. I was hoping that you'd get more of "Well this is what I've found this additive does to this flavor profile", but instead it's "Here's what I bought to start, did I get everything?" or "I love (insert obscure juice brand/flavor here), what should I do?" or "I've never tried the original, but here's my clone of Honey Pearry (WTF?!?!?!?!?)".
If you frown upon clone requests then maybe not have the subreddit banner say Clone Request.
It's sarcasm
I think the issue arises less from newbs versus established and more from young people (ie. 17 year olds) versus adults.
An adult does some searching, educates themselves and quickly understands that DIY is a trial and error type endeavor.
Get your PG, VG, Nic base and pick your flavors and get experimenting.
Teens get home from school, don't want to spend any time learning and just ask "How do I make this clone?". I'm sure a lot of it is they only want to order the bare essentials... they don't want to order 15 different flavors and experiment because there's too much upfront cost for them.
It isn't just teens. I know plenty of people who are like that, even well into their 30's. People in general just want to be able to get what they want and go. Which isn't inherently bad, but this is definitely more of a tinkerers hobby, if you will.
I think this may be a very valid point. Unfortunately, there's not really much we can do about that except make the mod's work harder policing every new post.
Which we don't want to do, I'm trying hard to encourage that every post be something that contributes to the sub, unless it's a valid question that hasn't already been asked and answered a dozen times. And TBH I haven't seen a "new" question in quite some time.
Unfortunately, there really AREN'T many new questions left to ask. If any, really, side from the "Is this safe to mix with?" questions. Vendors are established for both flavors and nic. Same with where to get bottles. There are multiple recipe sites out there. Mixing by volume and weight have been discussed and the arguments for both have been fleshed out. Outside of those topics, what else is there to discuss in this sub?
I'm just throwing this out there - I don't hate the "what can I make?" posts. I don't love them but I don't hate them. This sub is about DIY eJuice. Its about getting suggestions and giving suggestions and bouncing ideas off each other. I don't see how that type of post doesn't fit here but I do see why it gets annoying to have it posted every day.
We currently have a monthly recipe thread which is great. Why not have a monthly "newbie questions" thread? Or weekly? Look at /r/malefashionadvice. They saved themselves from loads of stupid posts (well.. they tried at least?) by setting up weekly/monthly threads for certain topics.
I think that would be a nice medium. Get a bot set up that will post a weekly or monthly "I'm new to this pls help" thread for any and all newb type questions. Maybe include one for general discussion so that people can bounce ideas on different flavorings and what not off each other. Then grab another mod or two to sift through and delete/move all posts that fit that description to those threads. I dunno. I'm not the mod. Maybe you're against that sort of thing. I just think that it would help reduce the amount of complaints significantly while still keeping the sub noob friendly.
EDIT - And by the way, I do think this is currently the best resource for anyone interested in making their own juice. The only issue with saying that is the other resources aren't really great anyways. ECF is widely regarded as an elitist pit of circlejerking and thats really the only other big one that I can think of.
EDIT 2 editboogaloo - It would be nice to improve the sidebar a bit as well. Don't get me wrong, it looks good. Its got plenty of info. But it could probably be reduced to like half the size it is now and still provide even more info. Once again, look at /r/malefashionadvice. They have the perfect sidebar IMO. They keep it updated with links to the latest newb-question threads and always have links to the most up-to-date guides for beginners.
Can something be added to the banner to direct noobs to the sidebar and search box? It may grab attention more than this post, as I never see it, I sort by new and it doesn't show up...
There's a reminder when you submit a new post; I'm hoping that's sufficient.
BTW, nice work again on finding the underage kid.
Hey, I just put all my flavors into the e-liquids-recipes website. Is there a way to search with only what is in your flavor stash? It only seems to let me choose which flavors to include in the search.
It would be awesome if it would only show results for what flavors you have. Is there a way to do this? Thanks.