The company reported that they use no diketones at all in their products, recently however someone did a test on a few of their juices, and was floored. The butterscotch had a shitload of diacetyl in it, apparently a few others as well. Having trouble finding the op but apprently he waa banned from the facebook group discussing the issue and fw has not responded.
Anyone else heard or have anymore info on this?
Dissapointing when vendors are either flat out lying or not taking the time to be thorough.
I remember someone in a diy e liquid facebook group with a post like you describe that started a shitstorm and he ended up leaving/getting banned. Are you sure it was butterscotch that was in question? Another very trusted member of that group later had someone from TFA test a handful of FW flavors for diketones and found them to be clean. I know one of them was butterscotch and I believe one was vanilla bean ice cream. In fact, she even found the chemical present that most likely imparts the creaminess in the butterscotch and it is apparently not a diketone.
edit: removed possible personal info.
I'm pretty sure they aren't necessarily being malicious with it. Many say we don't use/add Diacetyl, but it is a naturally occurring compound (iirc). They may not use any in anything, but when it's heated some of it is produced. Most fruits, custards, and creams will produce it.
I, personally, don't worry much about it....most of it occurs at a lesser level than in traditional analogs. It's one of the reasons I don't think vaping is for everyone (and I hate when people say "it's safe/not unsafe"), but great if you're a former smoker.
Its produced when using diacetyl replacements such as acetoin or acetyl proponiol (sp)...which really are equally as bad for you.
Aa far as its amount in analogs, is that in the smoke or tobacco? Does its compound change when combusted?
When you vape it, your directly subjecting your lungs to the chemical as is.
For people who want to avoid it, with good reason, companies should be more proactive. At least say theres a chance its in there instead of saying "nope none at all we dont have that in our product" when they clearly didnt have the tests to back that.
> which really are equally as bad for you
*citation needed
>A recent NIOSH peer-reviewed publication documents that acute inhalation exposures to 2,3-pentanedione (acetyl propionyl) cause airway epithelial damage that is similar to diacetyl in laboratory studies (Hubbset al. 2012). In 2-week inhalation studies in rats, NIEHS researchers found that 2,3-pentanedione caused proliferation of fibrous connective tissue in the walls of airways and projections of fibrous connective tissue sometimes extended into the air passageways (Morganet al. 2012b). Preliminary data suggest that repeated exposures to either 2,3-pentanedione or diacetyl can cause airway fibrosis in rats (Morganet al. 2012a).
Acetyl Propionyl:
The alpha-diketone, 2,3-pentanedione, has received attention as a flavoring substitute for diacetyl. It is also known as acetyl propionyl or by CAS number 600-14-6. It is structurally very similar to diacetyl since 2,3-pentanedione is a 5-carbon alpha-diketone and diacetyl is a 4-carbon alpha-diketone. Published reports on the toxicity of 2,3-pentanedione were first published in abstract form in 2010 (Hubbset al. 2010b; Morgan et al. 2010). A recent NIOSH peer-reviewed publication documents that acute inhalation exposures to 2,3-pentanedione cause airway epithelial damage that is similar to diacetyl in laboratory studies (Hubbset al. 2012). In 2-week inhalation studies in rats, NIEHS researchers found that 2,3-pentanedione caused proliferation of fibrous connective tissue in the walls of airways and projections of fibrous connective tissue sometimes extended into the air passageways (Morganet al. 2012b). Preliminary data suggest that repeated exposures to either 2,3-pentanedione or diacetyl can cause airway fibrosis in rats (Morganet al. 2012a). In the acute inhalation study of 2,3-pentanedione, changes in gene expression were noted in the brain (Hubbset al. 2012). Preliminary data suggests that diacetyl can cause changes in the central nervous system that are similar to those caused by 2,3-pentanedione (Hubbset al. 2010a). As a group, these publications raise concerns that the toxicologic effects of diacetyl may be shared with alpha-diketones which are close structural analogs. Additional alpha-diketones of interest include, but are not limited to, those used in food manufacturing such as 2,3-hexanedione and 2,3-heptanedione (Dayet al. 2011).
More on acetyl propionyl: http://ehp.niehs.nih.gov/120-a457/
Oh I agree, I think they should test it more....and post the results. There can still be small amounts of Diacetyl to claim "Diacetyl free".
The issue with the analogs, I'm not sure it was listed on one of the bigger tests that ol what's his name did (sorry don't remember his name....pretty sure it starts with an F if that helps).
Where do they claim they don't use any diketones? The only claim I have read is that they don't use diacetyl.
FW has begun testing their flavors for diacetyl, and you will see a red stamp on the page of the flavors that don't contain any. Check Acai Berry flavor for an example. My understanding is the other diketones are only harmful because they catalyze into diacetyl.
A user on ecf had contacted them, they responded they use no diketones with the exception of three flavors (jamaican rum is the only one of the three i can recall, butterscotch was not among the three)
There was a study in 2013 that showed the common diacetyl replacements (also diketones and very similar in chemcial makeup to diacetyl) could be just as dangerous as diacetyl.
Will link to said study when not on mobile
Here is a link to the story in question. At the time, FlavorWest had a blanket "no diacetyl" message, they've since changed the messaging on their site.